Rocky Mountain High (marijuana legalized)

Colorado leagalizes Weed...:major
Holy BF batman...

A whole new meaning to Rocky Mountain High


Washington state too

Might be a new Trend:major

 

Re: Rocky Mountain High

My personal thought is that marijuana should be legalized nationwide for both medical and recreational use.

* Most medical studies show it is not nearly as addictive as cocaine, prescription painkillers or (in some cases) alcohol.

* Legalizing it means taxing it and cutting drug cartels out of the sales process.

* Legalizing it does NOT equate to allowing people to drive or work while stoned. Police and employers can give tests for THC just like for alcohol and prosecute/fire anyone under the influence.

* Law enforcement is overworked and both the courts and prisons are grossly overloaded. I'd rather see the cops and prosecutors concentrate on rapists, burglars and far more dangerous drugs than busting people for an ounce of pot.

And no, I don't use it. Just my two cents' worth.

 

Re: Rocky Mountain High

I think the main thing that keeps it from passing everywhere is cultivation. They could make it (keep it) illegal to cultivate it but people will do so anyway as they do now. With that come lost tax revenue. They could make the penalty for cultivation very harsh although I doubt it will stop anyone from growing their own. I know people that are in medical marijuana states, from what I heard it is very easy to get a medical use card from a doctor.

 

Re: Rocky Mountain High

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/11/09/where-and-how-can-you-smoke-weed-legally-now?page=2

Funny how lack of money shifts peoples stances:-D

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/business/economy/30states.html?pagewanted=all

Maybe I'm reaching a bit but I find the correlation interesting.

 

Why not legalize it? If they do, invest in Twinkies and Doritos. :-D

Sorry, no way in hades you can accurately predict how much revenue would be raised by taxing a product 3 years from now...

Increasing taxes does not = increased revenue. Think 'sin tax'. You know, you tax something bad, so people do less of it...

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/07/politics/marijuana-legalization/index.html

"federal law still says marijuana is an illegal drug so don't break out the Cheetos or Goldfish too quickly."

I laughed when I read that part. :-D

 

Which is a good point. It will become like the Medical Marijuana laws in Cal. and a few other places. - You can legally smoke/ingest or own this stuff in some states = "Whoopee!!". But, as always, there is a Caveat. You can still get your stash and bongs seized by the F.B.I., D.E.A. and any other Federal body - "Ooohhh!!" Unless laws are enacted on a federal level as well as state, one is still in a very legal gray area, i.m.o. I.O.W. you may not be braking state laws, but the good ol' Govt. can still make you rot in a federal prison.rolleyes

It's 'prolly even more legally confusing over here, especially with laws pertaining to so-called 'synthetic pot'. The laws literally change by the month as to what is legal and what is restricted/banned. Then, of course, every state/territory is also different - ranging from banning almost everything, (which actually stops nothing, i.m.o.), because there are always alternatives, to places where if it isn't specifically banned you can do what you want.

Personal opinion:- Pretty much what several posters have already said. Many people are going to want to take/smoke something in order to relax/get 'high' no matter what Draconian laws are passed and enforced. Govt. and conservatives need to just get over it and treat it like the other legal drugs of alcohol tobacco, etc. If you don't believe in it, think it's going to kill you, send you insane, grow a third leg, or whatever - then simply don't use it.
Treat importers,large scale croppers as a tax avoidance/Customs issue. There are more than enough laws and penalties to cover this.Start collecting the taxes and stop making criminals rich.
As a side note:- I see that New Zealand is controlling and legalizing this area, which is just as well, as their economy is even more bust than ours.

 

Dang Feds... Wait, didn't POTUS enjoy a bit of the nature drug? :-D

 

Taxing weed will not bring huge amounts of revenue IMO it will be far too hard to tax,a lot of the revenue they predict is taken from black market numbers too but once it's legalised the price will drop to the point it's practically free.

EDIT It's all opinion though I've never seen any actual numbers that prove conclusively it can be successfully taxed and become a good source of revenue,I don't think they exist either. Even economists can't agree on it from what I've read,even Forbes leave the revenue question as a question in their article.

It will definitely save money in policing and jail time cost's though and everyone must be licking their lips at those savings.

 

If the price drops to 'practically free' how is a small percentage of 'free' gonna raise revenue? :confused


Your quote Sir Rikky:

 

I don't think it will,I think my previous post explains my position though I edited some extra explanation in as well.

 

For those who want to grow it at home, do you think this would work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-NEjJzlbZ0

:-D

 

Nice clarification.

But:

You quoted an exact number of revenue, in 2015.

So, do you stand by your quote?

Just asking in a friendly way.

 

Yes I stand by my quote, I definitely quoted it. Do I agree with their estimate,no it was the one in the article I was reading, it's not my estimate.

Here's the people you have a gripe with, the source of the estimate in the article.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2165864

The economics and the accuracy of how much revenue it will generate is immaterial to my point though,it will definitely generate revenue,it will definitely create 'wealth' if you will.

This isn't the first time I've read the half billion in revenue quote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/marijuana-economy-14-reasons_n_2089107.html?ir=Business

If people are banding about quotes like half a billion in extra revenue it affects peoples ability to make principled decisions, which was my point not accuracy of the estimate.

 

Expected and reality are not the same Rikky.

Not sure about you, but if I quote something with figures and such, I would be posting it to support my statement, or as a reply to someone else's post. Just me. YMMV :cool

You can only guesstimate future revenue from raising or lowering taxes. Maybe just me, I don't like it when people put a guesstimate out as a fact. Especially since they estimated revenue in 2015, when the Mayans say we will all be toast in December 2012. :-D

Or, maybe the Mayans had a vision of a stoned civilization, perception of time can change when one is high (so I am told.) :-D

 

You really don't want to let this go do you?:-D O.K while is Saturday and it's you-

1.The only statement I've made is loose statement that money affects peoples principles.
2.I have not made any estimate myself or offered the figures as blind fact in each 've linked the source,if you don't like the estimated figures that practically every economist and news story is spouting that's up to you.
3.I've admitted that I don't like their estimate either and don't agree with it AGREEING with you so I'm not sure why you feel the need to remind me that expected revenue and reality are identical when you know that's my position too?
4 The links I provided to support my point that money affect people's principles,if you don't think it supports my point you must think that weed will produce 0% revenue and will not save the states money because this is the only perspective it doesn't support my point.

I'm not sure what your digging for but it isn't here:cool

 

I think the point he was making (although I could be wrong) is that why post a figure if you don't believe it yourself. Most people post facts to back up their statements, not just throwing random figures in the mix.

 

Because the preciseness of the figure is besides my point.

If I say the weatherman say's it will be 10C warmer tomorrow and posted a link to the weather report and that you should take some sunscreen,the point is it will be hotter and you should take some sunscreen not the accuracy of the weatherman's estimate,if I said it will be colder and posted a link to the weather report that said it would be hotter then the number I posted would not support my point of taking sunscreen.

The number I posted was a reflection of the fact that revenue will be made and economists perceive this revenue as a big number not that a precise amount of revenue will be made or economist can predict the future.

That's the last I'm posting on this it's silly.

 

Perhaps I worded my post wrong. The 'You' I was referring to was not you, but economists and people in general. If the economist are so accurate, why are they so often surprised by an unexpected result?

My point is revenue on weed taxation is not known. Government regulation and taxation has in the past raised the cost of items. What about cigarettes being bootlegged into the US? It might be cheaper to buy the weed illegally. How can you (not you specifically Rikky) base a correct estimate with so many variables is my point.


And of course, this is an opinion type thread in a Lounge of a computer forum. You can post whatever links you wish. Not sure why you would post such a link to ambiguous 'facts' and then say you don't agree with the number, but that is your 'right' so to say.

There is a site selling free range unicorn tears. I would not post a quote from that site as proof there are unicorns. :-D

Here is an example of how taxes don't always bring in the revenue they say it will

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...taxes-on-half-of-cigarettes-sold-city-da-says

2 of the people are facing 25 year prison sentences. So, they may live a long time on tax money.

And that is all I have to say about that. Have a great weekend! Weather is awesome her. Nice and sunny, cool at night. :-D

 

You too.

Don't worry in coming years with the way the world is there will plenty for us to argue about:-D

 

Ok firstly, Rikky and Fred... you guys are funny, reading through I saw what both of you were saying, I love watching people argue while agreeing :-D

As for the legalization, it's about time. Should be legal everywhere.
I laugh at anyone who thinks it should be illegal, yet Percosets and Oxy's everywhere, yes they are prescription here but it's pretty easy to get a script "I have a backache" is enough, trust me, I got offered them and refused, my pain is not bad enough for such a drug, in fact the one thing that does help my back is weed.
Alcohol is fine yet a large percentage of violent crimes are fuelled by it.
Smoking is legal yet look at how bad that is for you, on the grand scale of things, pot/weed etc is less harmful to our bodies and society than many things that are perfectly legal.
There are too many silly studies about how it kills brain cells etc, it doesn't, been proven apparently and even if it does have detrimental effects, so does coffee, MacDonalds, Smoking, Alcohol etc etc etc .

gateway drug?... Only in the same way a Beer is a gateway to alcoholism. If you're stupid enough to get into heavier drugs then it's your own fault.

To be honest, I never really understood why it was ever made illegal.

As for revenue, that depends, if they make it as high or higher quality than current, which it most likely will be given what I'm told about medical marijuana.
It they make it better AND cheaper since it doesn't cost much to grow etc, they could possibly put 100% tax on it and still be less than current street prices.
The amount that would be sold would be a large cash injection, I don't see how that can possibly be argued, numbers I can't say but it would still be good for the economy.

Keep it illegal = Keep it on the streets, waste a fortune on arrests and policing of it which clearly has little effect.
Make it legal = Same people smoking it, probably more, but now the country is making money from it and there are a chunk of people now employed.

Not a tricky equation if you ask me. :-D

 

I love watching people argue while agreeing


That is just how we roll. :-D:-D

As long as Rikky agrees to agree with me that the agreement is an agreement that favors agreeing on things more favorable to my side of the argument, and i agree to concur that his side might be right. I can concur, that Rikky and myself might, or might be or not be in agreement. :-D


:-D

 

We can put music to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwARpaKHx_w

Humm...
Was John a Pot Head ?

 

Next time you fail that random drug test at work
Just tell em you were in Colorado

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23XQeLGNAeA

:-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTHxrifMek

 

I was thinking about that today. Alcohol works out of your system fast. You sober, no alcohol. But, the weed stays in you for weeks? How should that be dealt with in jobs that drug and alcohol test?

Could that penalize people from using a legally available product? If you got high a couple of nights ago, you are not under the influence, but, you would most likely test positive. Where do you go from there?

And could that not be an economic factor.. :-D

 

Could Weed could save American
An answer to our Deficit
It could help fund Obumma Care
____________________________________________



Marijuana Production in the United States (2006)
by Jon Gettman

Comparison with other Cash Crops


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At an estimated $35.8 billion marijuana is by far the largest cash crop in the United States when compared to the average production values of other crops from 2003 to 2005. (Production values for other crops were obtained from the Department of Agriculture. [22])

Table 7. Top Cash Crops in the United States (Average Value 2003 – 2005)


Average
Rank Crop Production
Value ($1000s)
1 Marijuana $35,803,591
2 Corn $23,299,601
3 Soybeans $17,312,200
4 Hay $12,236,638
5 Vegetables $11,080,733
6 Wheat $7,450,907
7 Cotton $5,314,870
8 Grapes $2,876,547
9 Apples $1,787,532
10 Rice $1,706,665
11 Oranges $1,583,009
12 Tobacco $1,466,633
13 Sugarbeets $1,158,078
14 Sugarcane $942,176
15 Sorghum $840,923
16 Cottonseed $821,655
17 Peanuts $819,617
18 Barley $653,095
19 Peaches $474,745
20 Beans $467,236

Based on a comparison with average production values of other crops from 2003 to 2005 marijuana is the top cash crop in 12 states, one of the top 3 cash crops in 30 states, and one of the top 5 cash crops in 39 states. [23] Marijuana is the largest cash crop in Alaska, Alabama, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Kentucky, Maine, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia. (See Table 8 below.)

Domestic marijuana production often takes place in marginal areas not usually associated with agricultural production. In addition to indoor cultivation in trailers, closets, basements, and attics marijuana is grown outdoors along fence lines, in forests, on other public lands, in undeveloped rural countryside areas, and on other parts of private land generally inaccessible and unseen by the public.


Table 8. Thirty States Where Marijuana is One of the Top Three Cash Crops
Average Values 2003 – 2005; Production Values ($1000s)



Alaska New Hampshire
Marijuana $129,223 Hay $16,163
Hay $6,820 Marijuana $10,349
Apples $6,637

Alabama New Mexico
Marijuana $569,409 Hay $173,963
Cottonp $198,393 Vegetables $98,525
Hay $120,262 Marijuana $41,226

Arizona Nevada
Vegetables $778,779 Hay $161,868
Marijuana $274,590 Marijuana $49,172
Hay $229,245 Vegetables $34,817

California New York
Marijuana $13,848,267 Hay $341,845
Vegetables $5,668,637 Marijuana $329,565
Grapes $2,607,181 Vegetables $311,832

Connecticut Ohio
Marijuana $32,179 Soybeans $1,165,908
Hay $20,517 Corn $1,004,106
Tobacco All $11,270 Marijuana $457,316

Florida Oklahoma
Vegetables $1,289,360 Wheat $522,918
All Oranges $1,046,646 Hay $334,511
Marijuana $593,802 Marijuana $73,021

Georgia Oregon
Cotton $498,574 Marijuana $473,972
Marijuana $438,858 Hay $346,751
Vegetables $421,748 Wheat $195,018

Hawaii Rhode Island
Marijuana $3,819,383 Hay $3,101
Sugarcane $64,953 Vegetables $2,902
Macadamia $40,125 Marijuana $2,481

Illinois South Carolina
Corn $4,062,034 Marijuana $142,434
Soybeans $2,728,190 Tobacco $97,136
Marijuana $272,586 Cotton $92,256

Indiana Tennessee
Corn $1,813,064 Marijuana $4,787,250
Soybeans $1,541,358 Soybeans $277,861
Marijuana $312,058 Hay $252,365

Kentucky Utah
Marijuana $4,474,952 Hay $220,251
Hay $421,036 Marijuana $29,020
Tobacco $410,551 Wheat $23,630

Massachusetts Virginia
Cranberries $51,016 Hay $304,825
Hay $26,470 Marijuana $191,822
Marijuana $20,396 Soybeans $106,684

Maine Vermont
Marijuana $122,824 Hay $49,294
Hay $32,726 Marijuana $29,009
Apples $12,285 Apples $9,832

Michigan Washington
Corn $537,908 Apples $1,145,133
Soybeans $420,201 Marijuana $1,030,015
Marijuana $324,830 Wheat $507,220

North Carolina West Virginia
Marijuana $672,253 Marijuana $494,328
Tobacco $539,872 Hay $63,905
Cotton $306,317 Corn $7,636

 

Sorry, but I have to wander how they get such accurate figures from peeps growing stuff illegally. And no link given to advance the conversation...

 

Re: Rocky Mountain High

This article tells what is to come.

State laws conflict with FEDERAL law, and legalized pot is not good. I lived in Humboldt County and saw the "Underground System" in action. The largest trees, cleanest air, 2nd largest milk production and all sort of weirdos running around in brand new cars working as "landscapers, carpenters, or Handymen"... rolleyes

Here is another story -NIMBY! :boxing

 

Well, back in the '30's and before, even some brands of cigarettes contained a portion of Cannabis content. I think Lucky Strike was one of the brands concerned. It gave a more satisfying smoke, was less harmful than the Tobacco, Potassium Nitrate, glycerin, pesticides, anti-oxidants, paper, straw matter and several dozen other substances concerned. It was also good for sales, of course, too. As an Industrial Chemist and former Nurse, I can tell you that these additional ingredients are far more harmful than the actual Tobacco content, ironically. But let's not digress into the smoking issue(s). (No, I'm not saying it's a good idea to put anything other than fresh air into your lungs, (if you can find any these days, LoL!).
The 60's area saw the dominance of J.E. Hoover and the 'Mob' running the U.S. more than Washington, so it suites their purpose for it, (Cannabis) to be illegal. It's been basically the same to this day.
Cannabis legality topic aside -I can tell you one thing. And you can carve this in stone. That every time the Govt. is doing something "for our own good", personal and civil liberties are being eroded and removed. The 'Nanny State' mentality is simply a crude ruse to have the vast majority of the populace controlled by the minority of manipulators under a thin guise of pseudo-concern.

 

Whatever the figures are one things for sure, the state that legalises sale first is sitting on a goldmine.

The money from weed tourism alone will be extraordinary, not only will they get revenue from state sales but there are 260 million customers just a car drive away, I imagine the local hotels and motels will be booked solid a year in advance.

Road trip!:-D

 

Re: Rocky Mountain High

And they even stated a correct estimate of potential tax revenues in the first linked article! :-D

"If that many growers decide to absorb the tax instead of getting out of town, the tax would generate $1.2 million, or nearly 4 percent of the city's $31.7 million budget.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/03/4959232/pot-town-pushes-back-against-industrial.html#storylink=cpy

:-D

 

The money is almost irrelevant, i.m.h.o. It's more about personal liberties and why one should literally be a criminal for doing something that the authorities say is bad for them. ~ Like having a criminal record for the rest of your life, losing your stuff, and maybe even going to jail and losing everything is somehow a good thing.rolleyes

 

Definitely,Clinton,Bush and Obama have admitted to smoking weed,I know Tony Blair our last prime minister admitted it too but he doesn't appear on this list. If they had been less lucky none of them would be leaders and would have probably lost everything under possession and use laws but I'm not sure what stance public or Ivy league schools take on after returning from a 90 day jail sentence?:-D

I was first gonna post these lists to prove that lasting mental health problems caused by cannabis are a myth but I think they may prove the opposite:-D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_politicians_who_admit_to_cannabis_use

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_politicians_who_admit_to_cannabis_use

The hypocrisy of it all is annoying to say the least.

 

If not legalized, it should be decriminalized for at least medical use worldwide.

As a side-note, hemp growing should be allowed. See its many benefits: http://www.naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html

Read of the benefits in using hemp.

PS: who would know for sure if Washington, Jefferson and Franklin didn't smoke cannabis?

 

http://current.com/1sa774c

roflmao!

 

Thanks for the info on the smoking part, very interesting! If the above papers hadn't been written on hemp paper, these documents would not have been readable nowadays since hemp paper is so much more durable.

 

This prediction was recently proved false and the end of the world according to the Mayans in now in 12,000 years!

Don't forget that almost none of the Tea Taxes or stamp duty were collected before the Colonial Rebellion!

The interwebs can prove or disprove anything you want. 49% of people know that.

 

"This prediction was recently proved false and the end of the world according to the Mayans in now in 12,000 years!"

I am not Mayan, so don't have to participate in their holidays. Although they are welcome to celebrate how they wish, as long as it is in within the law. :-D

 

What I meant was that researchers had misread the calendar (or some such other excuse) and 2012 is not the end of the Mayan calendar at all!

 

You calling me Mayan? :confused :-D:-D

 

According to the bible the only way to have legalized marijuana is to also have legalized gay marriage.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man is to lay with another man as if his wife, they are to be stoned. (semi-loose interpretation). So for Washington it's all good. Colorado I'm not sure of.

Two counties in Washington State have already dropped all pending possession cases for marijuana (if over 21 and the amount was less than an ounce).