Judging VS observing

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by watchntv, Jan 26, 2013.

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  1. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    I see people doing stupid stuff, I tell them, they arent being smart by doing that
    "you are stupid to smoke"

    I get a response of, "DONT JUDGE ME!"

    I wasnt judging them, if I was, I'd call them stupid; I said their actions are stupid(smoking).

    Observing: commenting on ones actions
    judging: commenting on a person based on their actions

    Is that right? It seems wrong?
     
  2. Sgt. Tibbs

    Sgt. Tibbs Ultra Geek

    I call it offering an unsolicited opinion, which in my book most of the time makes you a jerk. ;)

    Seriously, though. Observing and having an opinion is one thing, but telling people what they're doing is stupid (according to you), unless they have asked you to share your opinion, isn't the most socially acceptable thing you could choose. Your example does seem very judgmental to me.

    Edit:
    I just realized that even with the winky smile that sounds rude. It was meant tongue-in-cheek, it really was. I don't know you well enough to call you names. :-D To me, observing is having an opinion and keeping it to yourself. Judging is sharing that opinion with the person.
     
  3. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    When I used to smoke, someone telling me smoking was bad for me made me want to smoke a cig. If you engage me in intelligent conversation, I am all for that. ;)
     
  4. Sgt. Tibbs

    Sgt. Tibbs Ultra Geek

    Actually, now that I look at this again, you were calling them stupid if that's how you phrased it. "You are stupid to smoke" is not saying the act is stupid, it's saying the person is, which is judgmental. "Smoking is stupid" is an observation, but only when not directed any anyone in particular.
     
  5. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Well I've spent the last few weeks with my father in law dying from pancreatic cancer and I have lost count of how many times I've had digs about me smoking.

    To all those who don't like smokers and thinks it's this and that... go away.
    I smoke, you drive a 6ltr truck, I smoke... you burn wood on your fire pit, the list goes on.
    I have started telling people that I smoke to line my lungs with a protective layer of tar to protect me from all the car and factory fumes.

    I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else that they are acting stupid or performing a stupid act when it's something they enjoy.

    You say smoking is stupid, so is drinking, caffeine, sugar etc... in fact Sugar feeds and causes cancer more than smoking does, since smoking has never been proven to cause cancer. Yes it's bad for your health, damages your lungs, makes you short of breath, reduces fitness.... wait... doesn't a bad diet have similar effects?

    All smokers know it's bad for them, we do it because we want to, there are a million things that everybody does that are bad for you, some not as bad as smoking, some worse.

    Point being is "Preaching" (since that is exactly what you are doing) is only going to piss someone off, I don't need you to tell me what smoking does, especially since I can probably run rings round you with scientific facts about how it affects the body.

    One point and one point only... it's my body.

    Then you get the "But you're polluting my air".... yeah?... what do you drive?... better at least be a hybrid or you need to stfu because you are polluting more peoples air than I am.

    It is a judgement, it is offensive, it is preaching.

    "Smoking is stupid and is bad for your health"

    "So is telling a smoker not to smoke when they are a fully grown adult"

    *By the way, I don't condone smoking, would never suggest anyone try it and would say everyone should give up if they can. But by the same token, I enjoy it and it's my life and is not your business.
     
  6. Kestrel13!

    Kestrel13! Super Malware Fighter - Major Dilemma Staff Member

    In my opinion everyone who smokes needs their own "personal shock" to make them stop, maybe cancer strikes or heart disease for example. Like my Dad almost died when we were on holiday last year and that was his "personal shock" into leading him to stop smoking. Sadly, despite how scared and upset I was (Dad was telling me to have him cremated out there in Sri Lanka so convinced he was that he was gonna go!!) it did not make me stop smoking. See what I mean? No matter how I see and witness, no matter how much people preach at me, or print disgusting pictures on my tobacco packets I am not going to stop.

    Also here's another twisted way of looking at it, there are some people in life who take NO drugs, do NOT smoke, or drink, then they cop for the cancer anyway.... :/

    Me? I'll always :major:major:major until I have my own personal shock. Anyone who TRIES lecturing me? I'll just walk away and they can call me weak or unwilling to listen if they want... I Don't CARE. It's my only sin these days LOL And anyone who said I was being stupid would just have to watch out!!! ahahahah!!
     
  7. Caliban

    Caliban I don't need no steenkin' title!

    One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind. -- Alphonse Bertillon

    (Epigraph to Thomas Harris' Red Dragon)
     
  8. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    This is also true, since reading the above post, added to all the comments I've had recently, I have now sat here over the last 45 minutes and instead of having 1 or maybe 2 smokes, I'm annoyed and I smoke more when I'm annoyed and have sat here and am now on my 6th.

    So hows this, telling someone not to smoke and pissing them off means you are having detrimental effects on that person by causing them smoke more.

    Also, if the government really wanted everyone to stop smoking, they would simply ban it, just like cocaine and heroin etc, but if they did that, all you non smokers would suddenly find your taxes will go up.
    Have you ANY idea how much revenue smoking brings?... on average across almost any country, it's about 5 times more than is spent on smoking related patients. That's a lot of profit that you non smokers don't have to contribute to.

    You're welcome.
     
  9. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    What really gets me is people think they are allowed to tell me not to do something that is 100% legal and there fore my "Right" (yes I'm going to pull the "It's my right" bs this time), yet is ok to preach to me about and tell me how I'm killing other people etc.

    But I mention something about gun laws or religion etc... and I get blasted from all directions.
    People walking around carrying a hand cannon with no idea how to use it or people blowing up buildings in the name of some invisible, unprovable being is ok... but I'm not allowed to smoke?... GTFO of here.
     
  10. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    While smoking is not specifically mentioned in the Amendments to the Constitution, I have no problem with people doing anything legal. I do find it ironic how taxes from smoking are supposed to go to many noble causes, but smokers are often demonized. :-D

    Hmm, so, if I were to buy stock in RJR, then go around bugging people who smoke, would that be insider trading? :-D

    As far as Rights and Needs, I was recently asked why I 'Need' high capacity magazines for shooting. I asked them 'Did Rosa Parks 'Need' to sit in the front of the bus?' I mean, did she really get to where she was going that much faster? It is a Bill of Rights, not a bill of needs.

    I have the right to have guns. If I misuse one, then I should be charged with the appropriate crime. And if smoking is legal, people should be allowed to smoke in public and their private property. If they toss down a butt, and it starts a fire, they should be charged with the appropriate crime.
     
  11. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Exactly Fred. I would like to clarify what I said about Guns, while most of you know my views, Fred has opened my eyes with facts about it. And I now think that if everyone who owns a gun is as responsible as Fred, there would be little problem, trouble is... many are not.
    Just clarifying that I wasn't having a pop there Fred ;)

    Back to smoking, another one I often hear is "Oh you stink, it's making me sick"
    Yeah?... You know how many times I've had stinging eyes and weezing due to someone wearing too much perfume or cologne?

    Also here's an interesting question, if I only smoked in my house where no one else is affected... is it still an issue?
     
  12. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    although you are correct, I don't know many people who would hear the difference
    people routinely say, "I could care less"--inferring, they don't care at all. Yet that's not what they said, "I couldn't care less" is what they should say
     
  13. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    I disagree, you say to me "You are stupid for jumping off a cliff" I hear "You are stupid" and will instantly go on the defensive and then the way I am, the offensive :-D

    But it is simply a play on words and generic ways of saying things, as you say "I could care less" is a very silly way of stating you don't care.
    Same as "It's cheap at half the price" ... well of course it is! .. the phrase is "It's cheap at twice the price"

    But like you Watchntv... things like that annoy the bejesus out of me lol

    Edit: I wonder if our avatars are confusing people :-D
     
  14. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    smoking is fine, go smoke..as long as I don't have to be bothered with the 2nd hand smoke, Im all for you to smoke, smoking around me is fine when I can spray your air with paint. radiation or sound horn. what gives you the right to infringe on my rights to not having air full of 2nd hand smoke?

    guns and rosa parks? LOL rosa parks simply wanted what whites had, equality/the right to sit in front. you want to say high capactity magazines are the same as someone wanting equality? DOES NOT COMPUTE restart
    :-D
     
  15. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    if you react to a few words instead of listening to the whole thought/statement, then you are taking things out of context and that might be something worth fixing fo you

    people say stuff without thinking, they are careless with words, and WORDS mean things.
    I don't find how well people listen/speak to be a barometer of intelligence though; I wish it were.
     
  16. Kestrel13!

    Kestrel13! Super Malware Fighter - Major Dilemma Staff Member

    If you were acting this way around me I'd tell ya to go and "do one" ;) Don't like my smoke? Well sod off then! Simple. There are designated areas of smoking now adays in most establishments... if you're in theree, you shouldn't be if you don't smoke :-D And if you're just waiting at a bus stop and getting all pissy at me coz I'm smoking, I'll just light up three or four at once... I'm like that :-D

    Don't like mincing my words ... lol why sugar coat it, man?
     
  17. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    sod off? I dont have too, usually. smoking areas are great except for that damn diffuision of smoke..:-D

    I dont complain, everyone is an retarded moron who barely understand english, so I dont go to areas where people smoke. so I would never get pissy or even talk to you.
    I'd just avoid you, which saves me a headache of dealing with smokers, so I can do more important things, like watching grass grow:wave
     
  18. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    I dont know what you are talking about "mincing" your words?
     
  19. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Fixed it for you ;)

    Sorry but after all your preaching of the English language, I couldn't resist pointing out several mistakes in your post :p

    While I mean no offense and saying most of this in a mild manner, I can't help but point out your elitism about English, while preaching to smokers and making spelling and grammatical errors.

    Also, labeling "Everyone" as a "retarded moron" is a little much don't you think? That statement implies you are the only intelligent person on the planet.
    Egotistical much? :p

    Since you rightfully so, get annoyed at improper use of words, then why would you state "You are stupid to..." when you know full well the statement you mean is "the act you are committing is stupid" ?

    Like you've said many times in not so many words... proper use of words is everything when conversing, debating or making observations.

    Let's eat, Grandma.

    Let's eat Grandma.

    :-D

    Smokers Rule! ... the smoking areas :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  20. Phantom

    Phantom Brigadier Britches

    I've had cancer twice now, (including last year's relapse of supposedly "cured" cancer, (Sarcoma)), and it had NOTHING to do with smoking. I've known people to die of lung cancer who have never smoked in their lives. Also, the vast majority of smokers DON'T get cancer, emphysema, Gangrene or any other major 'Bogey man'. As for "You are harming babies and other claims, that's nothing but Propaganda, as far as I'm concerned. (Yeah, every time you smoke, you kill a baby.rolleyes) -Conclusion, although excessive smoking, (as with excessive anything) isn't a good idea - it does not CAUSE cancer or any other aliment. Yes, it can be a contributory factor, for sure, but CAUSING cancer, etc. is not an honest augment against it.
    It's like excessive eating can make you fat and cause bowel cancer. No - but it might contribute to it.
    Cancers, heart problems and many other pandemic diseases/conditions are primarily immune system related and consequently, there is a large genetic factor involved. Not to say that one shouldn't live "healthy", obviously.
    Also, countess lives have been SAVED by smoking, (yeah, deal with it, smoke haters), by reducing stress, alone. Not justifying it, just showing the other side of the debate. (Oh yeah, I'm also an Asthmatic and it HELPS me - so deal with that one, too.rolleyes)
    I'm no Doctor, but I am a qualified Industrial Chemist, as well as a Registered Nurse, so I'm not just spouting crap just to be opinionated.
    Yeah, I do agree with not smoking in confined public places, (e.g. public transport, cinemas, etc.) and obvious safety issues such as no smoking in aircraft and so on. I also agree with not smoking around people's homes who object to it, (there's always outside). But in my own home, I do exactly what I want. And until they start paying the mortgage, it's staying that way.rolleyes
    But the smoking issue, as alluded to by most posters in this thread, is less about health and more about the personal freedoms of choice.
    I know one thing - and you can take this and carve it in stone - Every time the Govt. says they are doing/ baning/restricting things "for your own good", they are using it as a pseudo-excuse to further remove and restrict human rights and increase their own hold on power. - It bothers me, and it should be bothering you.

    As for the O.P. seems to me that, like Ned said, you not only have numerous gramatical/wording mistakes in your posts, most of what you're stating in, in fact judgmental opinion rather than cold observation. Not having a jab at ya, but if you're going to "talk the talk, then you should be "walking the walk", i.m.h.o.;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  21. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    LOL
    Yes, I was up late last night, Im still dealing with a touchpad I cant get to turn off, but I did think about the irony of me writing about proper use of english words and then not using them correctly myself

    and I went back and looked at my 1st post and it wasnt even what I thought it was,
    I thought I was commenting on the action, but that's not what I wrote.

    Smoking areas? There used to have smoking rooms in federal buildings, the problem was the smoke would go everywhere via the air circulation.
    solution
    let people stand in front of the building and smoke
    (supposed to be 20-25ft from door, but no one enforces it)
     
  22. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    -smoking is a risk factor for smoking...Lots of things are risk factors, why do I want to have another risk factor?
    There is evidence that smoking is a risk factor; you deny this?

    I am in agreement that you should be able to do whatever you want. I think drugs should be legal also. My sole issue is my right to smoke-free air, that's all.
    The first post mentioned smoking only because that was an easy example. The only thing smoking is good for is dieting and that's only because its a DA-agonist, so it reduces hunger. But even nicotine patches have health concerns.
    More health concerns than being fat? I dunno. I just know that I want my smoke free air.

    As for my lack of editing/proofreading, I agree, I should do better, but WHY ARE YOU JUDGING ME!:-D:drool
     
  23. Phantom

    Phantom Brigadier Britches

    Nope. That's why, if you read the post properly, you would also see:-
    I thought that was made pretty clear.
    I agree with people's right to smoke clean air. I smoke occasionally, but not cigarettes, and yes, it does bother me when people light up smokes in my car or leave smoldering butts in front of me. But that's the lazy, inconsiderate person's fault, not the smokes in themselves. It's all about personal choice, i.m.o., as I also said before.

    I'm not. I'm making an observation and making a conclusion, (Hypocrisy). Look, I screw up with typos and who knows what else, too. But I don't call people "stupid" about it. (I.E. A judgment), which was the only reason why me and Ned even mentioned it in the first place.rolleyes
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  24. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    Wrong
    Smoking causes cancer, what do you think risk factors do?

    Moderation might be good for most things, etc. Even in moderation smoking cigerates is still a risk factor and can cause cancer. That's the point.
    When I say smoking is stupid, you would sound foolish to say, "suntanning is foolish"
    2 behaviors that will elevate your risk for cancer/premature aging don't cancel each other, no matter how much moderation you practice.

    Not clear.
    I dont understand that bolded part?
    so someone who I allow to smoke in my car its my fault for not telling them to not do that? If that's your point, I'm lost as to what message you are trying to get across.
    :-D
    I was making a joke, as this whole thread is about judging/observing. I readily admitted that I had some issues with editing should do better, but just because your MD smokes/has a BMI of 80/doesnt ever shower, doesn't mean that it's ok you follow suit.;)
     
  25. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    Well, first off, I don't smoke. Smoking is not a right, but it is a legal activity that is taxed by the gubment. Don't like second hand smoke? Stay away from smokers, contact your congress critters and try to get smoking outlawed. I like how somehow your rights are superior to everyone else.


    Civil rights are just as important as the 2A. Rosa Parks fought for her rights. How can one right be more important than another?

    Those activities are not legal, well, the air horn might not get you in too much trouble, but some of the others could be assault. I know of no law that allows a person to spray paint or radiation on someone else.

    Some freedoms may have results that you don't like. Does not mean that your right to not be offended trumps another's right to free speech. Of course free speech does not let you yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

    "The Bill of Rights is the collective name for the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. These limitations serve to protect the natural rights of liberty and property." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

    Your desire to have a smoke free environment does not seem to me to be a 'natural right'. But, using our legal and gubment system might let you make smoking illegal. But, under our Constitution, you cannot make a right illegal. Of course there are variations on the legal definitions of certain rights, like making some guns illegal, but that would be for another thread. :cool
     
  26. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
     
  27. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    I like that. Short, and to the point. :-D
     
  28. Phantom

    Phantom Brigadier Britches

    No, you are wrong. Neither you , nor anyone else can prove that anything causes, or doesn't cause cancer. If that is the case 100% of smokers, or at least the majority, should develop cancer - they don't. But if you smoke 200 cigs. per day for 50 years, I don't doubt that the probability is greatly increased.

    I'm saying that others should be considered Re: any smoking issues, especially in their home/car, (i.e. confined space). This applies to any activity, really. It's not rocket science, it's just common coutesy and consideration, which doesn't appear to be very common these days. What bothers me is inconsiderate smokers. If I smoke, but I'm not smoking anywhere near you. Then how is it a problem?
     
  29. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    it doesnt define what judging is vs observing
     
  30. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    It is good to want things. But in reality, you can't always get what you want... :-D
     
  31. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    not wrong, sorry bro, you are putting words into my mouth.

    smoking causes cancer, end of story
    much how: studying causes you to pass a test

    doesnt mean if you study you'll always pass a test
    doesnt mean if you dont study you'll always not pass a test

    but studying increases the chance of passing in the same way smoking increases the chances of cancer

    I agree.
    Too bad people dont do much about common courtesy anymore. I go to a public school and kids are smoking right in front of the door, making me walk through a cloud of smoke to get inside.
    I like rules that allow my actions to affect me and your actions to not affect me.
    This is part of my issue with "free healthcare", but that's a different thread.:-D
     
  32. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    you cant get what you want if you are silent about what you want:-D
    but you can usually compromise and get what you want;)
    which is why, as I said, I would never talk to a smoker, I'd just avoid them. It's not worth the hassle to try to talk to them about their drug addiction. Much how telling obese people their brains are using the same reward pathways as doing drugs/smoking use and they should try drug rehab.:p
     
  33. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    I like how sometimes people use the 'end of story' line in a conversation, as if that makes their point the Devine Truth. There is no one to one correlation that smoking causes cancer. While I won't say it is good for you, and I do believe it is a major contributing factor in causing cancer, it is not proven to be the only cause of lung cancer. Some people smoke and live to be in their 90's, some people who never smoke get lung cancer.

    Now, common sense tells me that since most people who die from fires die from smoke inhalation, voluntarily breathing smoke can't be a good thing for your health.
     
  34. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    It means that in each situation, keep your mouth shut.
     
  35. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    I dont think anyone said that, it has been said that smoking causes cancer, in the same manner studying helps you pass a test.
    by smoking you are 100% going to get cancer, but you are more likely than someone else to get cancer
    please dont share with me the outlier about the grandma who smoked 40 packs a day 500 years and never got cancer or the 20yo runnner who got lung cancer and has never smoked.
    outliers are outliers for a reason.
    yes, go back and read my analogy to studying and smoking.
    2
    right, I agree with both those statements
    which is to say, I agree with you, smoking causes cancer.

    why isnt breathing smoke a good thing? smoking a cigarette means you wont pass out and be unable to breath oxygen as you would in a fire, so why isnt your common sense telling you that smoking a cigarette is fine? hmmm?
     
  36. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    why would I do that?
    Why isnt the person listening who has to decide what to react to?
     
  37. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Wasn't that your whole point? You were upset by the way someone reacted to what you said?

    Also saying "Smoking causes Cancer" is like saying Homosexuals cause Aids.
    It weakens organs and makes you more susceptible to certain forms of Cancer.
    Over eating sugar products and drinking Alcohol make you more susceptible to Pancreatic Cancer. And I'll tell you something, I'd take lung over Pancreatic.
    Yes, seen them both, first hand and watched 2 people die from each.
    Both smoked.
    But to be honest, I have known more people die from Cancer's who do not smoke than do.
    Maybe some of you should look into how Cancer cells actually work, I don't mean from gov websites who want you to have chemo which inherently causes cancer's as well as many other horrible things.

    Smoking is bad for your health, it is connected to many different forms of illness.
    So is Alcohol, caffine, car fumes, sugar, chemical cleaners, cell phones, power cables, power plants, burnt food... the list goes on and on and on.

    Fact is Cancer is a genetic alteration of cells, many things can trigger it. Yes smoking may increase the risk, but crossing the road increases the risk of being hit by a car.

    Should we all live our lives in terror of the evil that vices will do? Should we where breathing masks when outside?, eat only "Organic" foods? , filter all our windows and vents? Where protective suits and gloves to stop disease?

    Fact is it's nothing to do with cancer, why do you care if I get Cancer?
    It's that it has been programmed into you to hate it, 40 years ago your doctor would have prescribed smokes for stress.

    But I do find it amusing that all the intense anti smokers do nothing about factories, you still by your favourite things made in factories spewing horrendous crap into the air, you don't shout at your neighbour for buying a Dodge Ram 3500 do you?, you are happy to throw away plastic crap that is not good for anything, you are happy to support all these other bad bad things that affect not only your health but the health of everyone and everything.

    Why pick on Smoking so much? Can you honestly answer that?
    Don't pull a cost of treatment because it generates much more revenue than it costs. You can't say you care that I get Cancer, not really. And you can't complain about the air you breath unless you also do something about all the other pollutants. If you don't drive a hybrid or ride a pedal bike then you are just as guilty of pollution.

    So come on, why do you care so much you feel the need to mention it?
     
  38. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    I'm going to get back to this, we went off on a tangent.

    Observing is primarily exactly that, by telling the person you are observing, what you observe would be to say "You are smoking, I believe it is damaging your health"
    Impersonal.

    Judging someone would be (in this case) voicing your opinion (judgement) that the person is "Stupid for smoking" the statement implies the person is stupid because they are doing something.

    Intelligent people can do stupid things, but how can an intelligent person be stupid?

    Therefore you are stating that you believe them to be of inferior intelligence and therefore you are "Passing a judgement"


    Of course I doubt if the person you are speaking of knew any of this due to the short, sharp, defensive response "Don't Judge me!"

    But this is how I think :-D

    You are stupid for posting about this.

    I'm quite sure if you thought I actually meant the above line, you would be offended and would respond defensively.
     
  39. dyamond

    dyamond Imelda Marcos of Majorgeeks

    We interrupt this fascinating discussion for a news break.

    Anyone who claims smoking doesn't cause cancer needs to take that up with these guys, and these guys. (You know the ones who have done years and years of research, yea those guys :-D)

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.
     
  40. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Doesn't "Cause" it "Increases Risk" (quote from your link :p ) and not everyone with Lung Cancer smokes.
     
  41. Phantom

    Phantom Brigadier Britches

    +1. Ned.
    Sorry, but statistics and anecdotal 'evidence' doesn't prove squat. For every stat and anecdotal story you can provide for for the "Smoking causes" blah. blah, I could provide stats and anecdotes that the conclusions are not as conclusive and set in stone as people are (mis)led to perceive.

    Firstly, let's make one thing clear, I'm not advocating smoking. If you don't feel any need/urge to smoke, then that is probably a good thing. I have two, (more or less grown up), children, none of them smoke as far as I know, and I am glad. However, I certainly wouldn't be preaching at them 'death and destruction' if they decided to do so.

    For example, I have a book written by a Doctor by the name of William Whitby, who wrote a book on how we are basically being manipulated and lied to, complete with copious evidence to back up his claims. He even put his money where his mouth was and offered a $10,000 reward for anyone who could PROVE that smoking CAUSES cancer. To date, there have been NO TAKERS. - Enough said.

    A link to the book, (there are others, too), for those interested.:-

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/44685607/Smoking-is-Good-for-You-William-T-Whitby

    Guess I'm just playing the 'Devil's Advocate' to an extent, but it does 'urk me' that most people are so adamant that they know "The Truth!". I mentioned that I've been involved in Industrial Chemistry and Nursing for a long time for a reason. I know exactly what goes into cigs., as well as what can happen to human tissue when constantly irritated.
    Smokers don't necessarily get diseases and disorders any more than having a drink makes you an Alcoholic and have Korsakoff's syndrome.
    For those who don't know what it is:-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsakoff's_syndrome

    "Smoking causes" is a judgment. Smoking can be a "contributory factor" is an observation.

    This debate could go on ad-nauseum, so I'll just agree to disagree for now, LoL!;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  42. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Exactly, over the last few months, my wife and I have read report after report, study after study on all kinds of Cancer and how it works etc etc, how to cure it, if it can be cured, what the repercussions of chemotherapy and various drugs they use to "Combat" it.
    Some of the things I've read would make your hair stand on end and it's not conspiracies or the like, it's actual studies and reports.

    I will not donate to the Cancer Society because I've seen the numbers, there are a LOT of people getting VERY rich from this stuff and yet there is evidence of cures for certain types that has been around for 20+ years and is still running but cannot get government funding, yet it's survival rate is higher than any health service, so it remains private and VERY expensive.

    Go reading before simply believing one "Official" website.

    You would not believe how dangerous sugar is and how it's in almost everything you consume, yet it is basically Cancers favourite food.

    I don't honestly know what's true and what isn't since there is so much conflicting evidence both ways.
    But I've read a lot more independent studies that point out some un nerving "facts"

    Also like Phantom, I don't condone smoking at all, I would advise anyone not to start and anyone wanting to quit, I do my best to help. But I'm tired of being preached to.
     
  43. dyamond

    dyamond Imelda Marcos of Majorgeeks

    yuh huh! :p

    besides I said take it up with them, they are the ones with the degrees and the research :-D
     
  44. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    I will attempt to answer your multiple questions in the order they appear.

    -No, I was not upset with how someone reacted to me

    -As I said about dealing with smokers themselves.
    I try to avoid the useless stress of confrontations. I was accused on judging someone, so I made this thread, to see what makes someone think they are being judged/
    I would have used anything else, but the only thing that came to mind was eating food, but eating a fat *** meal is different than smoking.

    --This explains why I chose smoking, but I am amused at you thinking I/anyone, can't complain about something even if they are doing what they are complaining about.:-D as I mentioned before:
     
  45. Kestrel13!

    Kestrel13! Super Malware Fighter - Major Dilemma Staff Member

    Yep. Avoid me like the plague. :-D I've always pinned you down as being an internet troll ya know..... you would be better off spending your time on yahoo questions and answers rather than Majorgeeks. This place is too good for you. *Unsubscribes from thread*
     
  46. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    Huh?
    how did you pin me?
    what makes me a troll?
    we are stll on topic, kinda, and most importantly, I'm learning something about people and you, Kestrel13, so explain yourself, or label yourself as "useless member who shouts out strawmen and RUNS"
     
  47. Kestrel13!

    Kestrel13! Super Malware Fighter - Major Dilemma Staff Member

    Yes I'm useless :-D :-D

    You are a troll! You create these threads on purpose for your own perverse entertainment value, you deliberately post on topics which you KNOW will raise people's hackles.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=internet troll

    I don't care what your response is, cause I aint EVER responding to ANY of your posts again, and others would do well to do the same.
    You WANT me to stay and argue, so I will do complete opposite LOL ha ha!!
     
  48. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2

    MUCK IT ALL, I was working on my response and my computer shut down to get updates
    *sigh*

    I will answer best as I can.

    I dont care if people smoke, if they carry guns with UNLIMITED AMMO clips, go to school, have a BMI of 29+, or anything, AS long as their actions don't affect me. so it's to if can be tough, particularly since almost everything you do affects everyone else.
    AS in car insurance, I was told by a lawyer that part of the insurance I pay, is to cover those who have no car insurance, yet get into accidents. so the insurance company gets some of that payment back from me.
    hmmm
    regarding cancer and doctors:
    my mom had cancer in 08, boob cancer, she had a lymphadenectomy done, where Lymph node dissection is the surgical removal of one or more groups of lymph nodes.
    http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/health-information/directory/l/lymphadenectomy

    the lymph system is a like like the circulation system, except no direct pump, , it does " comprising a network of conduits called lymphatic vessels that carry a clear fluid called lymph directionally towards the heart", essientally helps the Immune sytem and water/et al, get around.

    By removing part of this, my mom would get lots of swelling from the water, that was treated with massage, wearing ACE bandages, etc....
    my point is, I learned from med school classes, that fat is carrieed in the lymph system and due to osmotic forces, when fat is in the lymph, water follows. So I told my mom to reduce/eliminate fat from her diet and she did. Quickly her swelling was no more, practically absent or very much able to be controlled. When she does have fat in her diet, she can tell via her arm.
    point is, of all her doctors, none of them told her this. They would go down a list of things to ask/tell her about her cancer and that was it.

    I am curious about why you looked into the cancer and the american cancer society and would appreciate you sending me anything that would better my knowledge about the medical system" (watchntv@gmail.com) partly out of morbid curiosity and partly because my mom has stopped having any scan done to see if she's out of remission, as her new oncologist(MD), told her scanning isnt worth the risk and spends time listening to my mom tell her about how she feels; a practice I dont know have enough facts about to make a judgement call on.

    Sugar

    you claim this is horrid food for cancer. I agree and go on to say its worse
    Recently I gave a lecture to 20-60yos about colds/flus. how we get them and what to do when you get them
    >90% of the time you get sick, it's because you infect yourself. You touch your face, eye/mouth, etc after touching someone or a fomite and thus infect yourself(this includes kissing, etc)
    you don't inhale someones germs from coughing/sneezing as much as you might think, <10%,
    sugar is also a great fuel for colds and although rest/fluids are the best treatment, the immune system travels via the lymph system which is indirectly pumped via muscle contraction, so working out, stretching. moving, helps circulate the immune cells,which can lead to a faster recovery time, so dont just lay in bed.

    besides sugar
    I'd look into Excitoxins, from a source like, Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills Russell L. Blaylock, MD
    http://www.amazon.com/Excitotoxins-The-Taste-That-Kills/dp/0929173252

    just because it's interesting to see all the "stuff" that is in our foods that causes our body to respond so dramatically it will cause us harm long term
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity
     
  49. watchntv

    watchntv Private E-2



    You are very vague.
    If you can be clear and specific about what your beef is about, then do it, but you are throwing out vague statements, apparently all you can do.
    You are like Tabloids, which say something SHOCKING AND APPALLING, to get you to read inside, then when you look inside, you find no substance.:wave
     
  50. LauraR

    LauraR MajorGeeks Super-Duper Administrator Staff Member

    This thread done before it gets more nasty.
     
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