I am "STUCK" with ("BY") Microsoft - for now...

I just "composed" a rather brief, strongly-worded (perhaps), SCATHING "review", of my couple/three WEEKS with the BEYOND OBNOXIOUS (in my experience), Windows "8" OS.

Curious if anyone might be willing to suggest a proper/appropriate venue for its airing (or if perhaps I should maybe run it by an attorney, firstly!)??

Thanks in advance,
g . . .

 

I'll be back . . . .

 

I have nothing against Windows 8; I will simply not install it. I skipped Windows ME, Vista, and now 8.

 

My year-and-a-half old machine (with Windows 7) died (machine was dropped twice - cooling fan ended-up broken).

My new machine came with 8, and I had no idea (no clue - none whatsoever) that it would be such a radical change/difference.

So I have paid for both, but am stuck with the inferior of the two products.

 

I have a number of PCs and one of them has Windows 8 installed, i personally can not find the enthusiasm to persevere and make it work for me but my granddaughter sat down with it and after about 30 min she was doing all the things i want to do so maybe Windows 8 is not for us oldies.

 

Micro$oft has a notorious history of releasing alternating good/bad Windows versions... i.e. 95 was good, 98 wasn't great, 98SE was good, ME was horrible, 2000 wasn't very good (ok, 2000 wasn't bad, but it sure took a lot of configuring to get a lot of stuff to work on it), XP was really decent, Vista was retarded, 7 was close to outstanding, and now 8 (from what I've heard) is pretty dumb.

So, I think I'm going to "w8" for the next version before upgrading from 7 hehe. I honestly had high hopes for W8... I THOUGHT the metro style GUI (or whatever they're calling it now... tile retardation) was going to be AVAILABLE for tablets, phones, etc. It was supposed to be a cross-platform OS. I honestly didn't think they would completely get rid of the Start menu/ease of staying on the desktop.

A few people I work with have W8 (since they bought laptops with it on there), and hate it. One guy was telling me that it took him quite awhile of actually just sitting there messing with it to figure it out. So, to add to the surprise that W8's GUI is stupid for a desktop, they didn't even include a tutorial for it? Highly disappointing.

I've heard that desktops, and the general idea of a personal computer will go away in the future, and we'll mostly use cloud-based systems that don't have much for a hard drive, etc. I wonder if designing absolutely repulsive GUIs for new OS's is the way they are discouraging people from desktops and laptops? I'd like that to be a joke, but I think there might be an element of truth to it.

 

Windows 95 was good for the time it was in, I think. I honestly don't remember the 3 different versions. Windows 3.1 wasn't grand, though.

Windows 2000 was fairly stable, but like I said, configuration was tricky from what I experienced, and yes you're right, drivers were relatively sparse.

I liked Windows XP. Of course, I always used the Pro version, the Home version wasn't so great from a power-user standpoint. Overall though, I think XP had much better driver support and configuration capability vs. win2k. XPx64 definitely wasn't grand, though.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Vista... I thought it was pretty horrible. SP1 helped, but it only gave a crutch to someone with a broken foot, IMHO.

 

from my tech support POV (users had no admin rights on the machine, we tested and approved any software added):

NT 3 - Decent enough except for BSODs which were largely unsolvable = wipe and reinstall.
NT 4 - Better yet...
2000 - Huge improvement, the rare BSOD solved with reboot.
Vista - Nightmare for most. Drivers, compatibility with legacy software...
XP - So good, we lost out on much comp time. It mostly just worked...
7 - XP on steroids and some cosmetic surgery. Very nice...

Win 8 - don't know much, but I subscribe to the cyclical theory, maybe not every other OS MS introduces, but pretty close, is a bit of a stinker. 8 is struggling to get to 5% of the market worldwide and appearance/usability seem to be the problem. I'll grant every claim by anyone that it is the best and fastest MS ever made, however perception often becomes reality. And consumer perception seems to have soured on 8. Don't be misled by MS sales numbers - the OEMs bought tons of licenses, but that hasn't translated to boxes on the street just yet.

Maybe part of the problem is that MS bought into the "death of the desktop" mantra a tad too heavily. The world is a bit different that what you'd think it was too see tech shows and expert opinion in the media about what people want and need. I think people want mobile AND desktop. Being different animals, they need to be made differently as well...

 

The whole 9x series - including ME - was pretty bad in terms of stability; it needed constant reinstalling/repairing - at least 2 to 4 times a year. External hard drives were rather expensive at the time, so backups were not an option for everyone.

The NT series was very stable; I don't recall having to install NT4, 2000, or XP even once. I can't say anything about Vista, as I have not touched it, but I'm very happy with 7.

My apologies for having led this thread completely off-topic...

 

The only experience I have acquired with PC's is Windows XP Home (2003) which was my first computer and now Win 7. I was in my sixties when I got my first computer. I do like Win 7 and am not fiddling with the default settings of it. Microsoft knows a lot more about the OS than me.

I humbly accept my limits.

 

I don't feel you went off-topic at all.

I have been RANTING over 8.

Not being any sort of "Tech" or Techie-type" of person at all, I have had troubles (some rather BIG ones) with EVERY Microsoft OS I've come in contact with...UNTIL 7.

My visits here (@ Majorgeeks) for "help" had tapered-off rather considerably when I bought 7 (exactly a year-and-a-half ago), compared with prior years/previous Windows OS'es.

Unfortunately, my little ASUS running 7 was accidentally dropped..twice in that time...the 2nd time having busted the cooling fan...and hence "frying" the machine.

This proved to be a GOLDEN opportunity for Microsoft, to STICK it to a little guy...a little guy who can barely afford to pay for internet access...much less purchase yet another (and final) OS from Microsoft - in less than 2 years.

I LOATHE AND DETEST THIS "CARTOONISH" PIECE OF GARBAGE, "8", and the CORPORATION WHICH IS NOW GOUGING ME WITH IT

I struggled MIGHTILY through WIN2000-Pro (after having moved quite rapidly through 95 & 98), XP Home/Basic, and VISTA Home/Basic, only to FINALLY feel some relief (SENSE OF COMFORT!!!) with 7. My relief/comfort ended FAR, FAR too soon.

So I pulled out my credit card..went and bought another brand new laptop..at Walmart (for $348 - a good FULL $50 OVER my budget), having NO CLUE WHATSOEVER that 8 was so vastly different from ALL the others. I was TOTALLY clueless, taken by total surprise, hoodwinked, cheated - RIPPED-OFF - as far as I am concerned.

NOW Microsoft wants me to pay yet another $200 to DOWN-grade (go BACKWARDS to an OS I ALREADY PAID FOR!!!).

Ya know I could "MAYBE" understand $20 or $25 for a disk to retrograde. But yet another Two-HUNDRED $ - FOR SOMETHING I JUST BOUGHT A YEAR-AND-A-HALF AGO!!!!????!!!!

I will NEVER, EVER purchase so much as a mouse ... not even a mouse-pad from the mighty (ROTTEN) Microsoft. NOT ONE MORE DIME OUT OF ME.

 

AFAIK the $$ we pay for Windows OS is actually a license and therefore not real our property.

Sometimes it may help if we read a bit about a new release just in case we may have to get it next time around. *knocking wood*

 

That only helps make my case, as far as I'm concerned..."they" are all "lawyered-up", so to speak. Like we either supposed to be, or are going to be lawyers . . or like I could ever afford to have a lawyer, JUST to read/explain all this sort of crud to me. Hah...yeah.

Good for you Bill Gates...as if you aren't wealthy enough, you want folks to pay double (TRIPLE, in this case). "Bully" for you Billy (BULLY) Boy..bully for you.

 

You realize Bill Gates stepped down as head of Microsoft long ago right? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...soft-head-to-concentrate-on-philanthropy.html

Look at the date on that article : 12:01AM BST 27 Jun 2008

 

For me, having installed a win 7 start menu on windows 8, there are very few differences between win 8 and win 7.

I find the the task manager in win 8 vastly superior to the old model (essentially carried over from the win95/NT1.0 era). I also like the new file copy window, and the ability to pause file transfers.

Windows 8 also provides me with about 15 minutes more battery life (not much but I'll take what I can get).

I don't use TIFKAM (The Interface Formerly Known as Metro), I don't use the Windows store, and I will avoid them for as long as possible.

I upgraded as it was time for me to do my regular operating system refresh (do it every 6 months, kids!) and I thought "why not upgrade?" I did my research, found there would be little difference, and there was.

Obviously there are a few minor annoyances, like an intermittent problem with wireless card drivers for my Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 card, and the lack of any ability to monitor or change settings for wireless networks without a hack, but overall, no difference.

 

True, but for practical purposes it is yours to do what you will with at least at the individual consumer level. Until and unless the OS phones home with every modification made, they have no way of knowing and not enough resources to check on millions of users. I feel certain that Microsoft, like any other company, would love to have total control of how their product is used/modified to protect revenues and profits.

What is sad to me is that with MS's near monopoly of the desktop today, consumers have limited choices. The average user buying a computer today has no "real" choice beyond Windows if they expect to plug it in and interact easily with the rest of the world. Apple? If not for Microsoft porting its Office suite, I think they would have been long gone long ago, relegated to a near cult OS like Linux for the desktop (servers are another whole story). Imagine a world where there was an automobile company with 90% of the passenger car market. Even if you did buy one of the smaller makes, where would you get service? What incentive would Big Auto have to innovate and listen to consumers?

Monopolies stifle innovation and competition, *real* competition encourages it and puts downward pressure on prices.

Excellent advice. I decided long ago not to pay for the privilege of be an unpaid beta tester for anyone. Early adopters do get to play with the new toys first, but they also have the biggest headaches...

**********************************

All this aside, they are my opinions and maybe not worth a thing, I wish the civility level in here would edge up a few notches. Fanboi/gurl wars always get ugly in my experience.

We can and should do better in here...

 

Even though Microsoft has a near monopoly with their OS's, I do find their prices quite reasonable. Reason: One has to count the years Microsoft supports those OS's by their updates etc. and supporting these OS's for many years. For instance, Microsoft supports Win 7 until 2020 which is over 10 years of support. Of course we are paying for that through our license.

 

Just a moment Glenn ..... it's not Bill Gates or Microsoft who dropped your previous Win 7 notebook twice eh? I fully understand your disappointment with Win 8 though.

 

As you have pressed the issue (and/or if you must know) I have disability (% of weakness, % of lost feeling/sensation AS WELL AS % of loss of small/fine motor skill/coordination) in both of my hands, due to complications from a cervical-spine surgery a few years ago (and of course this is MY fault also, as I should have sprung OUT of anesthesia and alerted the neurosurgeon to *NOT* HACK INTO MY SPINAL CORD as he did, eh?).

Though I am in some sort of "process" of trying to come OFF of this dreadful sentencing into poverty, I am on, and have been on disability pay for a couple years. I can assure you I subsist at a level, frankly, BELOW the poverty guideline.

I only JUST BOUGHT (paid for) WIN7 in OCT 2011. So, ON A CREDIT CARD (which I normally only use in an EMERGENCY), I PAID FOR (BOUGHT) YET ANOTHER "COPY", of MICROSOFT WINDOWS.

Having had Microsoft Windows through virtually ALL its incarnations (to use a word), I felt BEYOND CONFIDENT that "WIN8" would be SOMEWHAT "similar"...in fact it never occurred to me that it would be VASTLY different. To me, that is EXACTLY what it is.

I "was" actually EXCITED, and FULLY EXPECTING to be able to COUNT-ON (rely/depend on) MICROSOFT, in getting something "up-to-date"...HOPEFUL that it would likely be more secure...with enhanced performance, and more STABLE.

I'm not sure I've ever been more disappointed with a purchase in my entire 50+ years. NOW I have to PAY on my credit card for this disaster.

The "average" human being, having a preference for, say, Big Mac's (at something LESS than $5/per), would *not* continue to patronize McDonald's, and purchase Big Mac's from them, if McDonald's decided, 'OH, we are going to make these sandwiches from CHICKEN MEAT..or CANADIAN GOOSE...OR HORSE - OR WHATEVER - AND/OR SERVE IT BETWEEN TWO ROOFING SHINGLES, AS THAT IS WHAT IS IN MCDONALD'S BEST INTEREST, AND AS FAR AS MCDONALD'S IS CONCERNED - IN THE BEST INTEREST OF "CUSTOMERS" (i.e. the VERY REASON THEY ARE IN BUSINESS).

Sorry I went long here.

 

My only point is, a customer having spent about $700 in the past 1.5 years, for a product that CAN BE HAD for SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN HALF that amount, really should *not* have to pay more than, say, yet another $20-or-so for a DISK, to RELOAD the product AS HE HAS KNOWN it to be.

Who pays GOOD MONEY for things they are *not* interested in??

As far as I'm concerned, I was DUPED (baited-&-switched) cheated - flat-out - plain and simple.

 

I think you were a bit hard on Oma there Glenn as it is not common knowledge that you have such disabilities.
I however do know how irritating it can be when your body does not work as you would want it to because i have also had cervical and lumbar surgery,i have 6lbs of metalwork attached to my spine in my neck and lower back hence my title Bionic Belgian.
Back on topic
I think it is should be cheaper to get a copy of a previous OS but as was mentioned earlier Windows 7 will be supported until 2020 and the developers get paid big bucks.

 

I honestly did not mean to direct my angst at oma (I like, respect and admire oma..and always have). It's just a general venting - and the timing of all of this is about as bad as it could be. I am in a process of trying DESPERATELY to get back to work (and praying to whatever God [or god] that will listen), and it's imperative that I have a working, EFFICIENT machine to do so.

oma I hope I didn't offend you...that was not my intent at all.

Sorry to hear of your surgeries & metal Bill. I too have titanium in my neck (prior fusion), have had two L5-S1 laminectomies, and have metal in my right leg (from a bad crush injury)...the arthritis is literally head-to-toe, but so far fairly well-controlled. The surgery that caused damage (including some left-sided paralysis that has cleared-up) was a C-3,4,5 total decompression (back half of three vertebra removed).

Thanks for your input - I do appreciate it, B. B.

 

Is that a retail copy of Windows 7? If so, and if that computer on which it was installed does no longer exist, then you should be able to use that retail copy and serial number on your newest computer to replace Windows 8.

 

Well I bought a brand new ASUS with 7 from Amazon in October, 2011 (I guess that means "retail", yes?) . . . the ASUS overheated, but I still have it, with the product key sticker attached...

 

No, in this case it's an OEM copy, which cannot be used on another computer.

 

Oh...I suppose I should have known.

While speaking with one person at Microsoft, at one point she inquired if I had the key, and I told her yes.

But the conversation "went south" at some point, and while I had prefaced my reason for calling by telling her I did not mean to direct my upset with or AT her, I was indeed angry with the situation in which Microsoft had made a rather suffocating choice, for some of us.

Thanks to you just the same pwillener!

 

I'm more sorry than you David...I simply don't know how to express (verbalize/"word"), what is "basically" only one (1) complaint, any better.

8 is simply not working (not working "efficiently", I should say) for me.

I only had WIN7 for a year-and-a-half, but it had been perhaps the best year-and-a-half of my..I don't know..12-15 years of Windows experiences.

I really had no axe to grind with M$/Windows.

1. I don't understand why I now have to have different screens all the time...sometimes there appears to be a (rather cartoonish in my opinion) rendering of "Seattle" (I guess?), and other times I get the "Tiled" desktop thing...and of course there are the normal "blank" screens, and then the screens of when I have webpages and different programs open. I don't at all care for yet more and more things to have to click-through or punch keys for, simply so I can get to where I wish to be on my machine (if it's actually "my" machine...?).

2. My head continues to spin (I literally feel dizzy!) from having to STOP...and *not* go to the bottom left "Start" (as I always have) because that is no longer there.

3. And I am telling you (and I will scream it from rooftops) : This whole "swipe-in"...from WHEREVER" nonsense, is exactly THAT, for me, who has lost feeling/sensation in his hands. I have trouble finding the invisible "Charms" in the bottom right and/or top right.

It is indeed discriminatory that I am (that anyone is, really, but especially someone on an extremely tight, fixed-income, I think) who has paid for 7, and now paid for 8 - amd having DREADFUL difficulty with 8 because it is clearly different - would have to pay in full for 7 again.

McDonalds doesn't sell $300 (or even $200) sandwiches..but if they did, I assure you they would not be the mega-corporation they are, if they changed and began making their burgers out of tofu (bean curd).

This is my honest experience at one month of owning...ooops, sorry, one month of of "leasing" (I suppose..?) 8 (as oma pointed-out, i [we] really don't even "own" it, technically..).

 

Nobody held a gun to your head and told you to buy a laptop with Windows 8 on it...

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...7&sel=Price;Price5,Detail;175_100_53962_53962

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&N=100006740 4019&IsNodeId=1&name=$300 - $400

Pretty sure those fall in your price range of what you spent.

Otherwise, get a start menu replacement and it will be like Windows 7. No amount of your disdain for it is going to change anything or make it better for you.

 

That is a fact.

However, in this day-and-age, I think most "normal" people have come to reply/depend-upon a computer, yes? And I am unaware of any other choices in the $300-$400 range.

Isn't Apple/Mac like $1000 - just to start?

 

I posted two links of a lot of laptops that ship with Windows 7 in that price range.

Apple machines have nothing to do with it.

 

Please admin/moderator don't hesitate to simply blast this thread into the cyber void somewhere...somehow...

Whether it is believed or not, I never wished to fight...not about this problem of mine, and not about anything.

I suppose I had simply hoped to get to the bottom of my issue(s) with this OS...and if not, perhaps save another human being from waking into such a "situation", as clueless as I was (and/or am).

 

Thanks, though I'm not exactly sure what you mean (don't know where or when you posted those two links).

What occurs to me is that I'm a month late...and $348 short...

But thanks anyway...thanks just the same.

PS - and I know $348 is not much to many of you...but it might as well be 3-Grand, for me.

 

You know, you need to stop it with the whole, "you guys are rich and I am not" pity party.

I am not rich. I have had my moments where the dollar menu at McDs was a luxury. Cost has nothing to do with this. I've filed bankruptcy, lost my home and all of my belongings. I almost ended up on the streets a couple times. I do not however, feel sorry for myself.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody has pushed you into a corner and given you a hard time about the price. I posted two links above where you could have very easily bought a Windows 7 for what you paid for Windows 8. You gambled and didn't check around on other machines. Unfortunately, its a gamble you lost out on. It sucks, but happens to the best of us.

You can make Windows 8 work just like Windows 7 so not all is lost at this point. You just have to stop resisting and instead start listening. I have seen so many suggestions for you in other threads, and you just don't take anyone's advice and continue on with your hate parade.

 

Glenn, since it looks like Microsoft won't bring the Start Button back, there are many software programs available to bring it back. I pointed you already to one you said you tried, being Classic Shell. But you thought that Microsoft should bring the start button back.

Now I have another one to suggest. It also brings the Start Button back and its name is Start8. 30 days free trial and after that $4.99. Here's the link: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/features.asp

Go through (click on) all the pictures and read all the info about it. Notice that Stardock also has a forum where you can direct any questions about the program. IMHO this Start8 seems to be a small price to pay to get the Start Button back. If you don't like it within 30 days then just uninstall it.

 

Thank you as always oma...THIS is why I have always continued to come back to Majorgeeks, time-and-again, despite the humility that I so often seem to dine-on here!

Contrary to what some folks choose to think/type, I actually do take-up the vast majority of suggestions offered here...as you have now affirmed, only moments after it had been suggested otherwise.

Surely it is clear now, that I have never - not once ever - stated or implied that I "know better" than anyone here.

If I happen to not take a particular suggestion, it generally means I didn't understand it (and was fearful of really screwing things up), and/or was either concerned about boring folks here with repeated requests to have something broken-down into simpler-and-simpler terms - or - I was aware-enough of my own limits, and that I was really just not up-to a task that I had initiated, and then gotten myself too deep into.

Thanks again, and I "will" look Start8 over very well (as well as I know how to that is).

 

The irony is that you cherry pick who you listen to. I mentioned Start 8 weeks ago. It is even in my survival guide that I linked to you when you first got 8. Don't bother looking for it, I deleted my posts out of your threads.

I guess it just boils down to you only listening when you feel like it.

 

"Adrynalyne"

1. I believe I do recall (briefly, perhaps) viewing Start8 when you suggested it, and appreciated it, but then chose to try Classic Shell - likely based-on a higher "Rating" that I also believe I had seen. Sorry if I hadn't mentioned that previously - and/or if that upset/upsets you.

2. I found myself somewhat confused (which admittedly does not take much for me & many things "tech") in reading your '8 Survival Guide', but appreciated it just the same.

3. I missed (did not initially see) your posting of the most recent links (to 7-machines) in this thread (until just now) - however, again, and though I do appreciate it, I am really not sure why you posted them..I have humiliatingly splayed my lack of financial-prowess here for you (and the world) to see - it is clearly too late for me now to purchase anything (much) further.

4. I had read some comments on the web..and skimmed an article (or three) in regard to 8, but (again) did not pick-up on the fact that it was so very different (in my very humble, uneducated opinion) from all previous versions of Windows that I have ever seen/experienced.

The only "irony" I am aware of, is that you, alone, now hold the distinction of being the one-and-only person whose posts I have ever "cherry-picked" (as you say), and that is only due to the rather superior and condescending manner in which you have begun to address me/my posts.

'Your guess' about what it "boils-down" to was/is incorrect. What it actually boils-down to, "Addy", is this:

You have clearly made a point to display and drive some point of condescension against me...indeed, it would seem, to fully humiliate another human being. In addition, you have chosen to do so with one who was obviously distressed over the very situation in which you insist that you are being so 'helpful'!?!

"MY guess", is that I'm probably old enough to be your father. No matter to me really, as I ever-naturally tend to fall-back on that which I was taught as a very young child, general Respect of ALL folks - though my elders in particular

Occurs to me your "training" was different.

 

I think it's time that someone locked this topic...

 

Very much agreed, and I asked for that (or so I thought?) in post #32.

 

Glenn,

It's just a suggestion, but why don't you restore that Win8 machine of yours back to original state and sell it to someone? Then go pick up a Win7 machine.

 

Thank you...I don't know at this point, it may come to something such as that.

I am going to give oma's most recent suggestion (and Adrynalyne's earlier suggestion) of trying "Start8" an earnest effort.

The machine is "restored" (or rather, "Refreshed", to be exact, and whatever that means - exactly), so I'm not sure what else one would normally do to sell a relatively new machine, though I simultaneously have feelings of anxiety and depression at the mere thought of having to go through all of that - so it would likely be a last resort..but thank you again for the idea..

 

Nobody has been condescending. You simply play a victim. I've seen it more than once, including they way you attacked oma earlier in this thread. In which case, someone called you out on it so I am clearly not the only person who sees it. I have never worked so hard to try and help someone, for them to be hellbent on not receiving said help. Instead, you rather people feel sorry for you.

I don't know why everyone tip toes around you. This needed to be said, and you needed to hear it. Respect is earned, not given, regardless of age.

 

Why yes, I have viewed your extraordinarily-brief posts over the years, and would whole-heartily agree with this (typically rather snarky) comment from you...don't really know why you got involved with this thread, except to guess you may have "skin", have-had skin, or may wish to have skin in the game with MS at some point.

This is ridiculous (and BTW, very "big" of you to pile-on to the admonition of someone else, for which I have not only apologized PUBLICLY, but privately as well, before you saw fit to "cherry-pick" here and now).

 

PLEASE (and for the 3rd time), get your final word in here now, and lock this obviously worthless waste of time and space...which you actually promised/threatened to do in your first reply here - if memory serves me.

 

You might also want to have a look at IObit Start Menu 8.
It is not as configurable as Classic Shell and Start8 but it is quite adequate if you just want to automatically boot into the desktop and you miss the Win 7 style Menu
Some features you might like

Plus, it is free :cool

Read about it and download @
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=7934

 

You can close the thread yourself Glenn "just stop posting in it"