An Interesting (to me) Discussion

I decided to make this a poll, because I am curious on how others react to this discussion.


I go to University of Phoenix. It is overpriced, under-educated, and not a place I would go to again. That is for another time and place though, and I am exception to most of the students because I HEAVILY supplement my learning with more advanced learning on my own. I am also completing their BS program in 1.5 years, instead of the traditional 4.

That said, one thing the bachelors, masters, and doctoral levels implement something called learning teams. These teams are assigned by the facilitator, and outside individual work, there are team assignments. You sign a charter every class and try to make things work. Part of the reason why I am such an exception to most students in the IT program is because I take charge (sometimes dictatorial) of the teams. The reasoning? Because I, and I alone am held accountable for my grade in the end. I also don't trust the team, because not everyone shares my work ethic. By taking charge, I larn every part of the team assignment, and also am willing to complete it individually in the event the team fails. Remember, my grade is my responsibility.

That said, there are a lot of people who hate the teams and resist the system. Their premise is that it is a flawed system and does not work. My premise is that it is an attempt to simulate teamwork in a professional environment, and there are slackers there too. However, you and you alone are responsible for your paycheck. You cannot simply say "Not my problem". It *can* get you fired in some situations. Schools are not going to fire people, but instead lower grades.

I've been on engineering teams in classes and now IT teams. At low levels, engineering teams are the same way. Of course once you specialize, it weeds the slackers out and those who won't pull their weight disappear.



tl;dr version:

Teams are everywhere and slackers are too. The system is flawed, but you have to watch out for numero uno.


I am curious how folks vote on this and would like further input.

 

I voted to take up the slack but in the workplace it can become problematic when others in the team realise you will do extra to keep a project on track and then they decide to just coast along and do the bare minimum. When the project is completed and it comes time for a pat on the back the whole team usually gets the accolade because even sports coaches say "There is no I in TEAM" so your extra effort goes unnoticed and the bludgers get a free ride.

I agree that when going for a qualification you can't let your final results depend on the performance of others. If I get a low mark because of my own poor performance then so be it........ but if I put in a stellar performance and I fail because of someone else's poor performance then their sorry just doesn't cut it. BTW I don't play team sports for this reason so instead I played pennant Squash because you win or lose on your own performance and there is nobody else to blame

Maybe I am too competitive and ambitious rolleyes

 

My first reaction is what is the benefit to yourself following either strategy and it seems nothing other than a qualification mark in both cases.

Is the resultant mark from the team's effort based on the product that is produced or on the team management, cameraderie and ethos (i.e., team practice) despite what the team produces?

In the context of the degree that you're doing, there doesn't seem to be any benefit to the outcome of the teams to the university (or to the teams themselves for that matter), unless they're going on to market or create an IPR on whatever the team produces.

Therefore, to achieve the maximum qualification mark for yourself would be to take the first strategy. This is assuming that the qualification is dependent upon the team's product rather than the team's practice.

What percentage of the overall degree qualification does the team exercise contribute? This could have an impact on which strategy to take. That is, if it is 1% then strategy 2 may be better so that you can use your time and effort on other qualification tasks that have a bigger % weight. If, however, it is 75% then strategy 1 makes more sense and pushing the team would essential if the task cannot be completed by a single person.

However, if you're entreprenuerial then you could take advantage of the teams' output and market the ideas or products that it produces and this may well need some cooperative agreements from either the team or the university. In that context, the strategy may need to move from 1 to an alternative but certainly not strategy 2.

Also, the discussion here may suffer from confirmation bias in that geeks have more of a tendancy to work alone. After all it took some lonely "geek" or two in a garage to come up with some of the technological innovations that we take for granted nowadays.

In a corporate environment the results of either strategy in a team effort would be different and depends on the benefits or drawbacks of each and thus the choice that would be made is different. The question here is whether the team efforts that are taken during the degree affect the corporate view. It would look good on a CV that a univerisity task that you are involved in created a product and made mega-bucks from it or demonstrated something that a corporation is interested in!

Remember, even though there is "no I in Team", there is a "me" if you look!

 

It is in general and not just a classroom setting. Would you let a project fail and potentially end your own job as well if others slacked? Or would you pick up the slack (obviously letting management know as well).

A team can succeed together, but can also fail together.

 

And its not just a classroom setting that I am referring to. Even in the workplace, this exists. Thanks for your input

 

PS, I did Game Theory as a part of my university degree and in some situation cooperative games can be beneficial to the individuals involved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory#Cooperative_or_non-cooperative

It was a useful lesson to understand the mathematical theory and how this interacts with human behaviour.

...and getting people to cooperate in a project is like herding cats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8

 

"We want team players" is one of the most abhorrent phrases you will ever hear,it simply means that the best member of the team will carry the rest and at the end of the project the team leader will be praised for the work even if he/she was the weakest member of the team.

I worked in a management team where the person directly above me was an idiot who could not pull his weight but never the less was always ready to accept the accolades, in truth he had been promoted beyond his abilities.

In a university situation you are responsible for your own progress and each semester you need to attain certain marks to progress onto the next level and unfortunately it can be the fault of another in the team but if the tutor is proficient at his/her job they will know who are the slackers and who are the leaders therefore being able to mark students accordingly,the problem is that it is not always the way it works.

An old saying is "those who can do and those who can't teach" which is sadly sometimes the case.

 

LOL @ video. I used to work for EDS before HP bought them.

 

I have this thing where if you give good customer service, you'll get and retain good customers (for the most part). So I'd make every effort to make sure that they were taken care of in a timely manor which was all much appreciated by them.

My co-workers seeing this (that I often picked up their slack) started to just flat out ask (tell) me to do their job instead of "pretending" to be too busy as they used to. They knew I would do because it needed to get done.

On one hand, I wouldn't mind because I knew it needed to get done and I'd rather do it myself and have it done right then to have someone do a half hearted job and me having to redo it but on the other hand, I would get pissed that people simply refused to carry their own weight because they knew I would take care of it. At one point I was covering at least one job of every person that worked there. So I can totally understand how you feel.

 

You left out the part (in a job) where backstabbing takes place, unfortunately, that is a reality out there as well. I have experienced it first hand and it can get ugly, VERY ugly. But yea, sometimes you have to "lead the herd" to succeed.

 

Yep. I had a staff meeting this week and another co-worker was openly gunning for my job. I would never do that. Hopefully my manager is not an idiot.

 

Interesting discussion. Today's society has seemingly become "me" oriented at the expense of achievement.

This quote comes to mind - Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching.

 

All I can think of is "give as good as you get". Start rigorously defending your corner, and put in the odd blow against their job.

 

Buck up the system, take up the slack. Kinda what MS is trying to do with windows Vista (8). Note, I love windows 8 as is.