Replace Mobo or get new system?

I have a Dell XPS 730 (Aug 2008). It's been a great system, but in the last month it has gotten to the point where it won't boot, and keeps locking up (no BSOD; just freezes in its tracks). Sometimes, it would run for a couple of days just fine; other times it would lock before it even boots.

I've tried swapping out RAM. I took out the 16 GB it was running with, and put back in the 4 GB it came with; same symptoms. I've even tried the 4 as just 2 (it's dual-channel RAM, so I HAVE to have 2), and then the OTHER 2 -- same results.

It passes all Dell diagnostics (CD-based as well as on-line)
It passes Memtest86 (both the original 16 GB, the 4 GB, and both sets of 2 GB)
It passes Microsoft Windows 7's Installer memory checker
It passed Seagate SeaTools for DOS (on all 4 drives)

I HAVE had it lock a very few times during POST that I've noticed, but that has been rather rare; it seems to most always be able to get through the POST, and then die subsequently. When it HAS locked up at POST, it most often seems to be with code 0x96 - "Set Low Stack Boot via int 19h" or 5d - "Init initalizing onboard superIO".

The XPS 730 was billed by Dell as an "Extreme Gamer" system. It's a huge tower, with a 1000 w PSU, room for 4 hard drives plus 4 externally-accessible bays, a memory card reader, and even a floppy slot. It was deisnged for overclocking and memory timing tweaking, and Dell even sold a water-cooled version (the 730 H2C). It's in a beautiful 1/8-inch thick aluminum case (although it IS large and heavy, and I have to throw this machine in the trunk of the car and move it 600 miles twice a year -- that may have contributed to the current issues). I do ZERO gaming (unless you want to count the occasional round of Minesweeper), but I DO do a lot of code development, photo processing, and video encoding, and I run dual monitors - 30" 2560x1600 and 24" 1920x1200, so mobo-based graphics won't cut it, but I don't need SLI or thousands of shaders online either (that's why I've stuck with the Radeon 3870).

I have:
Mobo w/16 GB (1333 MHz - PC10600) DR3 in 4 slots
CPU: Core 2 Quad Q9450 (2.66 GHz)
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 3870 (see below)
Two optical drives:
A) LiteOn iHES208 DVD-RW/BR-ROM
B) Optiarc DVD-RW
Four hard drives:
A) Seagate Barracuda 1 TB (Boot)
B) Seagate Barracuda 2 TB --+
C) Seagate Barracuda 2 TB |-> - RAID 5
D) Seagate Barracuda 2 TB --+
Creattive SB X-Fi Extreme (Dell OEM)
Hauppague Win-TV 2250 (dual HD TV Tuner card)

I've lost a couple of Seagate drives in the last 3 years, so I want the fault-tolerance of RAID 5. I was running the mobo-supported RAID when this all happened. I have since disabled RAID on the mobo, and it doesn't change things a bit.

I also have a Samsung 840 Pro (brand new; haven't been ABLE to use it yet) I have mounted to an Apricorn Velocity Solo (lets you essentially plug the SSD into the PCIe bus and bypass the SATA controller on the mobo). This system has only SATA 2 ports, but it has 6 of them (2 optical 4 HDD); hence the desire to run the SSD off PCIe

Most recently, I've pulled every I/O card except the TV Tuner and a brand-new Radeon 7770 (which I have a few ldays left on to return to BestBuy), disconnected all of the drives, and still the system won't start from the Windows 7 Enterprise DVD I have (it's not the media, and it gets to different points in the boot process before it locks up).

I've pretty much narrowed it down to the mobo. There's a company near (~45 minutes drive) here that has a "new" one in stock for $189. If I put in a new mobo and it solves the problem, I'll STILL have a 5-year-old PSU, SATS 2, old cables, etc., but I'm back up and running a solid system for cheap. If I put in a new mobo and it DOESN'T solve the problem, then I've wasted $200.

So, bottom-line -- am I better off attempting a mobo swap on an old machine, or putting that towards something new?

Dell doesn't seem to have a current box that will accommodate 6 drives. I've had good luck with Dell in the last 15 years, but I think the market they serve is out of sync with where I am. I don't want to spec components and build (and support) my own. I'm not a gamer, so a boutique supplier's build is likely to be GPU-heavy, which is a waste. I need a fast CPU and room for lots of hard drives.

I apologize for the length of this post, but this problem has a lot of factors that seem to be not run-of-the-mill for me, and I'm trying to get up and running with a decent platform (and some stability) on a budget.

Any advice would be most welcome.

 

The images I dug up look like a BTX tower.

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but I'd salvage usable hardware and snag an ATX case, PSU, and motherboard if you've ruled out all other components.

From the POST symptoms, it sounds like mobo. Do you have the latest BIOS installed?

 

Thanks for the response.

Yes, I've flashed the BIOS (1.0.6), and reset all BIOS parameters to their factory defaults.

I've tried everything I can think of, short of flashing the BIOS with the EVGA version (Dell apparently bought this board from EVGA and then tweaked the BIOS; I'm reluctant to try that, since I don't know what ELSE they might have tweaked!).

I downloaded every driver-checking utility, and updated everything it recommended.

It's not a corrupted registry or O/S problem; I can't get it to stay up long enough to install Win 7 from the DVD to an empty drive.

I have every peripheral out of there except the optical drives, the (new) SSD, the TVT tuner (it's only about a year old), and the (new) GPU.

I really think the mobo has taken a powder.

I need to be up and running soon with SOMETHING, but I want to make a cost-effective move. I've wasted nearly a month already diagnosing this.


I found an HP box at Costco that looks like it might fit the bill as a cheap place to park most of my components. No speed demon, but it holds potential for the time being:

HP Envy 700-0027
CPU: i5-3330S (not sure clock speed yet)
GPU on mobo, but it has DVI-D and DVI-I connectors on back, so I can drive my dual monitors
RAM: 12 GB in 2 slots
One optical drive, room for another
One 1 TB drive, room for two more (can I get a FOURTH drive in there? Can't tell yet what I can mount in that forward-facing bay...)
3 x PCIe x1
1 x PCIe x16
4 USB on back (USB 2)?
4 USB on front (USB 2?
2 USB on top (USB 3?)
For $650.

Reaction?

 

If your current CPU and RAM are sufficient, I would start building something nice, and custom tailored by you to your needs. Get an Intel board that not only supports your current CPU, but a reasonably affordable upgrade if you want to go i5, or i7 in the future. Get a nice case and PSU which will support your RAID configuration without question.

It took me almost two years to cobble together my current build, but I couldn't be happier with it. Finding the right hardware, waiting for the right sale to bite on it, and when I started off the build had a dirt cheap AMD dual core which was overclocked and unlocked to a quad core. Heck, you could eventually build a server out of old parts which have been upgraded.

The use of BTX after it was abandoned by Intel in '06 still dumbfounds me, and it didn't win the format war, so maybe it will make a nice planter someday?

 

If replacing the motherboard, take note that your CPU is a socket 775.

The only board I could find that supports a socket 775 with four sticks of DDR3 is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130675

Personally, if you can afford it, I'd go for a socket 1155 or 1150 board using a new i5 processor.

Hope this helps.

 

Sorry, my bad. Not often you see Socket 775 paired with DDR3.

At least you still have the RAM...

 

Some "bastardized" BTX systems are not true BTX. Some simply located the ATX PSU at the bottom, not the top and marketing weenies then called it BTX.

Your system is 5 years old. I would go new. You can probably find replacement parts, but I think that is pouring good money after bad.

Also, since it is 99.9% likely your current Windows license is an OEM license that came with that computer, replacing the motherboard with any board that is NOT an exact brand and model number replacement constitutes a new computer (since the motherboard is the heart and soul of any computer). OEM licenses are NOT transferable to new computers (or "upgraded" motherboards) under any circumstances - which means more good money after bad.

Oh? You sure? I am not aware of 6Gb sticks so for 12Gb, that would require 1 x 8Gb plus 1 x 4Gb. That is a mismatch and not conducive to proper dual-channel operation.

 

Actually, with all the e-waste I've ever refurbished license keys have been pretty much a "free for all". The only thing I've ever encountered being model specific is the recovery discs. As long as it's not an OEM SLP key, they usually activate without issue. You paid for the software license, and the computer in most cases. If your system fries, why should you lose the license key you purchased?

 

So are many drugs, rolling through stop signs and not using turn signals. Still does not make it legal, nor does it get you off the hook if caught.

You paid a lower cost for the OEM license. That's the big difference. If you want full transfer rights, you buy full retail which allows you to transfer as many times as you want.

If your computer fries, you do indeed have the right to reuse the key as long as you replace the broken motherboard with an identical Original Equipment board, or one recommended by the maker if the original is no longer in production.

If we don't like the terms, we don't have to accept the EULA. We have the choice. But we don't have the right to renege and back out of our promises on contractual and legally binding license agreements just we no longer agree with them.

 

I've almost always used the label on the PC, unless it was missing or damaged and in such case used one labeled Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. corresponding to the PC.

Not sure what kind of grey, or black & white area that is, but what I do know is I've helped a lot of people who needed a computer. One man's trash, is another man's treasure. Once it hits the "circular file" or the dumpster, it's scavengeable salvage.

 

It is actually crystal clear in black and white in our EULAs and available on Microsoft's website.

But you are right, MS will often honor a re-authentication request, I suspect because they want happy customers to come back and buy from them in the future. This is exactly why many stores have "no questions asked" return policies. They want your return business, and don't want you bad mouthing them to all your friends.

But the fact of the matter is, it is a form of copyright infringement and software theft and they can, and have gone after users who have abused it.

Not really. Not with software because the disk is just the distribution media.

 

Well, hopefully they don't find me helping people an abuse...

 

I am not sure I would call it "helping" people if what you are doing is facilitating something illegal! Technically, legally, that is "conspiracy to commit fraud".

IMO, as helpers (as volunteers or as our occupations) our jobs are to ensure our clients are legal too. Or at the very least, ensure our clients are aware of, and understand the legal issues. Otherwise, it is a disservice to have our clients believe they are doing nothing wrong as "Ignorantia juris non excusat".

As an IT consultant and technician, all I can say to you is if you are getting paid, or accepting some form of compensation for "helping people" use software licenses illegally, then it would behoove you to reconsider your position. If you receive no compensation for your help then IMO, you still have the responsibility, if not moral obligation, to advise your "clients" to follow the legal path.

IF there were no alternatives, I could sympathize. But there are alternatives, including free ones.

 

Nope, never received a dime. They don't call it charity for nothing.

Over the years, only a few of the machines I've refurbished had a damaged COA on the machine, but unit label still reflected the same manufacturer on the XP COA. Dell on a Dell, HP on an HP, etc., all dumpster salvage, and always activated without issue, MS approved authentic software. They've honored the re-authentication request, so it seems there are exceptions to the rule.

Did some further research, and you're right about the OEM EULA technicality with the motherboard. By "free alternatives" I'll wager you mean Linux?

 

I hear you. I too salvage and cannibalize old computers and parts to make old functional computers for churches, the underprivileged and under-funded schools. But even recipients of charity need to be legal.

Yes. And while Linux alternatives may be less than ideal for some, you can do just about anything (except maybe play games) with a Linux box.

As I noted above, they often do - especially if you tell them it is part of a repair action. But they don't have to.

Yeah - I told the truth. I'm not here to BS anybody. I only want people to know the true facts so they can make an informed decision.

Note the following:

Microsoft Knowledge Base Article 824125, near the bottom under More Information (my bold added),

Microsoft OEM Licensing FAQ, under System Builder Licensing, 8th Q&A,