Civil Rights Still Has A Long Way To Go In Estados Unidos

Especially in this case:

http://abc7chicago.com/education/sp...de-shirt-got-her-kicked-out-of-class/1357981/

 

Overall I feel the general population is a very tolerant bunch of people.

Some things don't belong in schools. Here, schools have gone to a dress code of only certain styles and colors to have less distractions from the education and to soften the disparity between affluent and underprivileged students. Statements on clothing is not allowed in the code. That includes pictures and logos or other none plain colors.

 

Very poor Journalism in that 'article'. I wonder if there is more to the story?

 

It all depends on whether what the girl said about the teacher's reaction was accurate. If it was, and the teacher reacted in a moralistic judgmental way, then that's bad. But if the school had a well-understood uniform policy, then that would have been the best avenue to go down. But if the school doesn't have such a policy, then frankly they've brought the problem on themselves.
Many other news sources give more detail.
The fact is though that bullying of children in schools around sexuality is rife, in Anglo-Saxon countries especially.

 

Yes, I think one of the good things about a standard uniform policy is that it protects the pupils themselves. I agree we have had cases of pupils being allowed by their parents to flaunt that. I'm in favour of no jewellery to be worn and if it was up to me I'd ban any mobile phone or tablet devices while in a class.

 

Except for her partner I would hope nobody cares if she is a lesbian, as her sexual orientation is none of their business. Funny she would advertise the fact on a t-shirt though.

 

Yeah. I don't see the need for anyone to advertise what goes on in their bedroom or the backseat of their car or wherever! Student, teacher, laborer, lawyer, doctor, I don't care. Keep it to yourself.

 

Not saying this is, but a lot of these incidents have been proven to be hoaxes or misunderstandings. This article leaves a lot to be desired as well . . .

 

There may be more to this story. Schools are not allowed to talk about student issues to the media.
In general school dress codes are needed simply because there will always be some who push the limit of any and all rules.
In my state all schools have a Resource Center that keeps a supply of non descript shirts and shorts for students who violate dress code or have a need for some other reason to change into and then are sent back to class for the rest of the school day.

Springfirld ILL Public Schools Dress Code
http://www.sps186.org/about/policy/?p=22093

 

That's not the real world sadly - especially not in Anglo-Saxon countries where children are, in large numbers, bullied to suicide for being 'different'. Attesting to ones sexuality is not 'advertising' anything.

 

Maybe "advertise' is the wrong word but I believe it is what some would call "over-sharing". If someone's spouse likes to wear a shower cap in bed- same thing- I don't need to know.

 

We simply don't know the real reason why that pupil wore that shirt with those words.
If it was because that person was suffering from abuse or discrimination, then it is entirely reasonable. Anyone who doesn't realise that one of the biggest reasons for bullying of school/college kids (among others) is sexuality is a bit out of touch. It's important to see 'beyond' the words. Teachers in the past (and sometimes now even) are the worse culprits.

 

You are right that we don't know the situation. But it happened in a school where there are maybe 100's of other youngsters that are also affected by what they see. And hear, for that matter. Some parents may not want their youngsters subjected to extra influences besides what is going to happen as they grow anyway. At home, on the beach, at the mall, thousands of other places to display the pride.

My taxes don't support any of these other places. I do support schools. And I agree with our school administrators who had
the foresight to put the dress code in place to put their thumb down on problems before it get started.

Our schools also have 'Zero' tolerance in place for any kind of bullying by anyone for 'any' reason.
We also have resource deputies in every school because everyone knows there is always going to be things that happen.
The schools here are way safer than the street.

 

It's nothing to do with taxes and that's a distraction.
The fact is if prurient attitudes wont so prevalent in Anglo-Saxon countries, they wouldn't have the worst record of teenage pregnancies in the world, or the worst rates of death by suicide in under 24 year olds. In more enlightened cultures age of first sex is HIGHER, rates of teenage pregnancy are LOWER and bullying is much less.
Most schools perform quite poorly when it comes to bullying, especially around cultural difference. Having a 'policy' is meaningless of itself. The USA and the UK have the worst history for that.

 

Where are these 'more enlightened cultures'?

 

Actually, from the poorly written article, we don't know the specific words on the shirt, nor do we know if it was just wearing the shirt, or wearing the shirt and some distracting behavior.

Lesbian pride shirt is a rather vague term. The article also says other students wore similar shirts, but it does not say they were kicked out of class. There is a picture of a person wearing a shirt, but it does not say if that is the student in question, or if that is even the shirt...

Were these students kicked out? If not, why? By similar, could the original student's shirt had profanity? Again, because of the poor article, we don't know.

It seems to me, the author of this 'article' made a headline, and then wrote a story supporting their ideals/beliefs. Just my 'conspiracy theory'.

 

I don't want to get HBT here. But honestly, I think this post is a distraction from the topic. You are going into different countries, UK, USA, vs 'enlightened countries', suicide..

Perhaps school is just not the place to push your (insert here) agenda. I think our schools should be more focused on educating kids to succeed in life, not promote (insert here) agenda.

And again, from the article, we don't have all the facts. Was the student bullied? Did the student wear a shirt they knew was against the school's policy? Could they have put the lesbian part in to make it a 'third rail' action, kinda hiding behind tolerance?

 

You could just do a search for teenage pregnancy rates and under 25 suicide rates in developed economies and there you will have it. Most non-Anglo-Saxon developed countries have generally better attitudes around sex and sexuality. Most of Europe as an example.
Let's be honest, the worst forms of sexualization of childhood (heterosexually) are root and branch born in the USA, followed badly by the UK. The worst forms of poverty are situated there. If you just look at developed economies (where there is no good reason for bad statistics around sexuality, suicide of the young etc etc etc) the USA and UK stick out like sore thumbs.

 

We don't know the motivation for that child wearing such a t shirt.
If there was a standard uniform policy in that school, and that child hadn't been subject to some form of bullying or discrimination, then it could have been dealt with very easily. But if dozens of other children followed suit, they clearly felt there was an issue at stake.
The child is quoted saying what she said the Teacher said to her. If true it was a professional mistake and misjudgement by the Teacher.
But clearly some here feel it's uncomfortable to identify oneself as anything 'out of the conventional'.
In Summer 1990 I went to an American Ballet Theatre performance at the London Coliseum. It was wonderful, it was my birthday, and I was in the orchestra stalls among the hoi-polloi. It also coincided with a major campaign to persuade the London Metropolitan Police to get their finger out to resolve the then 50 unsolved brutal murders of Gay men in the City. I was wearing a well-made T shirt which had, as a design on the chest a credit card being held by two fingers of a hand. The words on the card were 'I am out, therefore I am' - this was a reworking of the philosopher Renes Decarte's words 'I think, therefore I am'.
Much to my genuine surprise it patently offended some other members of the audience - funnily enough quite a few whom were also obviously as gay as a $9 bill. Their discomfort was palpable.
It is good for people to have to face that discomfort in order to unburden themselves of emotional up tightness.

 

[

Actually, she was not quoted. And there is no way, from the article to know what the other kids were thinking. Again, the poorly written article does not give enough information to know if the girl was a victim, or (gasp) a rebellious teenager pushing the limit of the rules.

Bold mine.

How can the girl's motivation be unknown, but we clearly know the thoughts of the other kids?

 

Where are these 'more enlightened cultures'?
Sexualization of childhood? Like pacific rim brides. Or Russian brides. How about our soldiers told to turn a blind eye to men raping young boys in the desert since that is their Culture.

Us and UK lead in poverty? I bet a few million in other countries would like to know that.

 

Is this a better article, Fred?
http://newschannel20.com/news/local/lesbian-pride-shirt-causes-controversy-at-springfield-high

 

Much better Just Playin! Wow, actual quotes and facts. As I said in my earlier post, there might be more to the story in the OP's link.

I wonder what would happen if a heterosexual student started wearing a shirt that said "I am NOT (gay/lesbian)". Just a sneaking suspicion, but I believe those demanding tolerance and acceptance would not be tolerant to that.

 

You mean a shirt like this?

 

No, just one that said "I am NOT Gay". The "Nobody Knows I am a Lesbian" does not add the "But I Don't Hate", why add that part to the shirt?

And I "May be" is not definitive.

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Eg0VwfM4L._UX425_.jpg

 

I don't get the $20 part.

 

She was quoted but in one of the dozen other news media reports on it.

 

Unless you live in some neverland then you can't miss the sexualization of childhood in western commercial culture and the USA is the single mammoth culture in which it is.
In terms of DEVELOPED economies, poverty is far far worse than anywhere else on the planet.
Just doing a simple internet search shows that.
A simple moderate ball-park figure of the direct costs of the Iraq war alone, to the USA alone, would have covered indefinite health care for the 50 million who didn't have it.
A tiny FRACTION of it would also have easily completely eradicated clean water poverty on the ENTIRE PLANET.
Facts are always so inconvenient.

 

My posts in this thread were related to the article in the OP.

 

It was only one of many. The OP posted one that was just got from the wire.

 

I think the premise is wrong, she was kicked out because of her T shirt.
Her actual orientation is her business, its the flaunting that is a problem.

 

In other words, she should stay in the closet.

 

We don't know the full circumstances. Young people of that age rarely do something as blatant on a whim.
'Flaunting' is a loaded and pejorative term and accusation. Every time a male/female couple hold hands or kiss in a public arena it is a statement of their sexuality and so you can call it FLAUNTING. What's good for the goose...

 

I notice the original poster hasn't returned to comment on the thread title.. Bait and go fish!

 

I was thinking this today myself.

 

Forgot a link-

https://www.glad.org/uploads/docs/publications/ma-student-teacher-rights.pdf

 

The OP didn't put a gun to anyone's head to participate.

 

Long draw from a t-shirt to a gun.

 

Also, it's a holiday weekend. Entirely possible OP is doing something that, *gasp*, does NOT involve being online. I know that's weird...

 

Just how do you arrive at this conclusion? Also, how exactly is the USA the "single most mammoth culture" in which this occurs? Have you been in a neverland yourself and not seen commercial culture in other parts of the world?

I highly distrust broad statements made by invisible net-entities whose agenda is not known . . . little quirk of mine.

A simple internet search shows you are completely in error. On all the data sheets I saw from various sources have the United States, Canada, and the UK showing a much smaller % of population living under the poverty level then other DEVELOPED countries . . . unless you consider, say, Japan to be an UNDEVELOPED country.

Perhaps if you would be so kind to identify those "enlightened cultures" you have touted (and been asked already to identify) we could compare those?

Your point please? The money you yourself spent on the internet and the device to post this could have been put to better use for someone, somewhere. Do you claim the western nations are the only ones who spend money foolishly? Really? So where is the rest of the world . . . how about your "more enlightened cultures" and their spending habits? Why haven't they solved the world's problems yet? You take half facts and skew statistics to bolster your anti-western point of view . . . but so far what you said hangs together as well as cheap tissue paper. I fail to even see your point in all of this.

The western culture (especially the United States, Canada, and the UK) has done more to advance the state of civilization, has lifted more people out of poverty, and saved more people from death by starvation and disease, than any other culture the world has seen since the dawn of time. That's a simple fact. Do we have issues? Do we make mistakes? You bet. Does every other nook and cranny of the planet? You bet.

Cherry picking problems does not a convincing argument make.

 

. . . as an aside, it is fascinating how a thread evolves in such a short period of time . . . lol

 

The use of sex in advertising has been around in the western world for decades - and because the US capitalist system is so dominant it is unsurprising it developed there so strongly and there is a mountain of academic research to show that, let alone the experience of all of us.
Within the USA itself there has been a decades long intense argument about the sexualization of children, especially related to child beauty pageants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexualization_in_child_beauty_pageants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexua...#Criticism_of_sexualization_in_child_pageants
It is nothing new so I am amazed you weren't already aware of it.

There should not be any material poverty or lack of access to full medical care at all, ever in the richest country on the planet. There are no excuses for it except for political choices.
In the UK now, the number of people relying on food banks is in the millions - as it is in the USA.
The amount both Governments have chosen to spend on military intervention just in Libya and Syria is greater than they have both cut from welfare and public service budgets.
The amount the USA and UK spent directly on the first 5 years of the Iraq war alone would have made the banking crash almost irrelevant financially, solved the entire planet problem of lack of access to clean water and still have left $billions more for good use.
As for problems like teenage pregnancy, the statistics for developed countries are easy for any one to see.
The rest of your comment below is just meaningless political rhetoric that can't be backed up with facts, or you would have. Illegal military actions alone (throughout the world) have killed and maimed more people and placed more people in poverty than any wonderful 'capitalist' innovations.
Since 1999 in comparison to death of about 6,000 US service people in actual military action, about 124,000 have committed suicide - statistics from the US veterans authority.

 

Your use of the term "US capitalist system" speaks volumes;

Your understanding of the financial crash of 2008 is nil (in fact your entire understanding of finance appears murky at best);

Your use of the term "illegal military actions" without specifying what actions committed were illegal under international law is simple blather;

Once again, you cite statistics out of any context or attribution to counter valid points I have made . . . you are not presenting any kind of coherent counter argument by simply posting facts not in evidence;

Your bald statement "The rest of your comment below is just meaningless political rhetoric that can't be backed up with facts, or you would have." in response to my paragraph (presented below in bold) is bizarre considering you have posted a plethora of "facts" and "statistics" that you have not backed up either, lol. I almost fell out of my chair. I suggest those who care conduct a "simple internet search" and see who is right, lol.

"A simple internet search shows you are completely in error. On all the data sheets I saw from various sources have the United States, Canada, and the UK showing a much smaller % of population living under the poverty level then other DEVELOPED countries . . . unless you consider, say, Japan to be an UNDEVELOPED country.

Perhaps if you would be so kind to identify those "enlightened cultures" you have touted (and been asked already to identify) we could compare those?"

. . . and you STILL refuse to name your "more enlightened cultures" for debate. smh

Buddy, you are entitled to your opinion; after all that is one of the great things western culture is known for, and God bless you, but Wikipedia is not a valid source for factual information. You can find what you want to hear there . . . true or not. Just a word of advice.

 

Say what you like but you are arguing contrary to virtually all US and non-US economists.
The first 5 year cost of the illegal invasion of Iraq - alone - was several times greater than the cost of the US taxpayer funded bail out of the banks. That's a fact.
The UN classified the Iraq invasion as illegal, based on what we all know were lies. The invasion of Afghanistan was only given UN cover well-after it was started and only under intense pressure.
The action in Libya has led to that country now being more lawless than Somalia.
Seymour Hersch has proven beyond doubt that secret US, UK and French activities to supply confiscated Libyan weapons to the Syrian 'opposition' mostly ended up in the hands of ISIS groups.

As far as teenage pregnancies are concerned, they have almost always been highest in societies where sex education is the poorest and the UK and USA have frequently had the worst per capita rates. That also coincides with a lower first age of sex, and higher rates of sexually transmitted diseases, than in countries with a lower teenage pregnancy rate.

When you can provide verified sources that show the opposite, please do so.

 

Correction to my last post - the paragraph listed in total also included:

Your point please? The money you yourself spent on the internet and the device to post this could have been put to better use for someone, somewhere. Do you claim the western nations are the only ones who spend money foolishly? Really? So where is the rest of the world . . . how about your "more enlightened cultures" and their spending habits? Why haven't they solved the world's problems yet? You take half facts and skew statistics to bolster your anti-western point of view . . . but so far what you said hangs together as well as cheap tissue paper. I fail to even see your point in all of this.

The western culture (especially the United States, Canada, and the UK) has done more to advance the state of civilization, has lifted more people out of poverty, and saved more people from death by starvation and disease, than any other culture the world has seen since the dawn of time. That's a simple fact. Do we have issues? Do we make mistakes? You bet. Does every other nook and cranny of the planet? You bet.

Cherry picking problems does not a convincing argument make.

Don't know how that dropped.

 

As far as arguing against "all US and non-US economists" . . . no, I'm not. Economists are in no way in lock-step on this issue . . . again, viewers, do an internet search if you wish (avoid Wikipedia). Blanket statements, remember?

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 (UNSCR 1441) contained authorization for the military operations in Iraq. I was not a fan of this operation . . . but there have been no official United Nations Security Council Resolutions defining the military action to remove Saddam Hussein from power as illegal. . . however there are legions of opinions on the periphery that state that, but these do not have the authority of law. The intel acted on that provoked the response was disseminated in total to NATO and the UN and matched what was accepted to be accurate at the time. Nobody lied . . . nobody was kept in the dark. The UN had all the facts. The current Democrat potential presidential candidate Clinton had all the facts, and voted for the operation . . . only reversing her support when it was politically expedient. I was against the action in Libya, but it was not illegal (a term you avoided in this case, I see). Not liking something does not make it illegal.

As far as teenage pregnancy goes, I've not really addressed that. It is a huge problem. By and large, boys and girls will get together, and they certainly need to be armed with the facts about sex. The rate rises and falls decade by decade, and is driven by complicated factors. We've had sex education in this country since I was in high school, and sadly that was many decades ago. If you want to have a discussion about the breakdown of the family unit and general morality, driven by "progressive" culture, let's have it. But perhaps those are statistics you don't want to discuss?