Rip Fidel

Care to explain this based on facts?
And do keep in mind you have not lived in South Africa for 53 years. And your laughable reference to...

Who were these people?
South Africa supported UNITA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNITA

 

It's rubbish. As I said go and speak with some black South Africans.
I have lived (and worked) cheek by jowl with more black people (and many other non-white ethnicities) than most white South Africans ever did during Apartheid (of course, apart from the ones cleaning their toilets).

 

Rubbish because you know sh!t about SA.
I live with black South Africans. And Coloureds. And Indians. And Asians.
I work with them, I socialise with them.
And Christians, Moslems & Hindus.

Stop derailing/hijacking your thread.
Answer my question.

 

This is about Castro - he and his government hastened the end of one of the most abominable systems in 20th century history.
Why you continue to attack him when he did such incredible good for his own people and people in Africa and Latin America astonishes me.
I was doing what I could, as a white Londoner, from my teenage years, to campaign against Apartheid along with many other people, and against the brutal dictatorships in Latin America and the former Soviet countries when you were probably not yet out of school. I've had to spend time debating with reactionaries all my life.

 

Why did you derail your own thread talking about atrocities in other countries?
Two wrongs don't make a right. And yes, apartheid was wrong. And now it's gone. But that doesn't give you the right to bring up apartheid (or any other atrocities) in a desperate attempt to show your admiration for Fidel Castro.
You opened the door...
And you are an intelligent person, and you're probably a better person than I am.

 

I didn't derail it. I contrasted the venom some have posted here about Castro with the regimes armed and funded by the State that attacked Cuba for 55 years.
There were never, ever any wrongs committed in Cuba that even remotely compares to DOZENS of other regimes.
Even Cuba's awful past homophobia pales into comparison with many parts of Africa and the Caribbean today.
So no, I have not derailed anything. He was never, ever a 'dictator' to mention in the same sentence as dozens of real dictators.
It's two-faced and hypocritical and in your own country they would either get angry or laugh in your face.

 

Well, that's odd . . .

 

You're going down the proverbial toilet in your responses. I see them all. Good luck with that.

 

. . .

 

What's wonderful about posting actual facts is that others have no choice, they can't rebut them so they get venal.

 

You continue to believe you are right and everyone else is wrong.

Yes you did, with your references to atrocities in other countries. And you continue to tell me about my country when you have not lived here.

No. They'll ask me what the heck you are talking about.
And you refuse to answer simple questions.
Castro's soldiers killed thousands of Africans and not just in Angola. And it was not because he opposed apartheid. He supported Marxism–Leninism.

 

I'm leaving the 'de-railing' business. It's not true about any deaths outside of combat. But good luck with the lies. Nothing wrong with being a Marxist, another great man, I've visited his grave a few times. Lovely part of London.

 

great? i dont mourn for that creature

 

This article might be of interest to some:
Cuba's ecotourism: Fruit of a green revolution

 

marxists?id be a white russian

 

" I will die when America is destroyed" Quotes the Cuban leader. Coincidently, he died when Trump became the President.

 

http://www.snopes.com/fidel-castro-said-he-wont-die-until-america-is-destroyed/

 

All being said and done death is still the great equalizer, as everyone does it. Rest in peace Mr. Castro.

 

What Max has explained are not "opinions" but hard and verifiable facts..... you can't argue when facts are presented...

 

Who ever is interested in history and being on the correct side..... just saying...

 

History? Or propaganda from a gubment controlled media?

 

Like Fidel , I thought this thread was dead!

 

You might not but millions do.
Especially given than many Fidel haters (not so bothered about Chileans or East Timorese or Iraqis) have posted nonsense about non-crimes by Fidel.

 

Have you ever thought about researching anything before you make a fact-less statement? lol It's actually a good idea and what even people like you were taught at school.

 

Many wonderful human beings are dead. They just don't get forgotten. So you should be prepared to see references to Fidel and the wonderful work he and his colleagues did for many decades to come.

 

Sorry, you don't know what kind of person I am.

 

History is written by the winners. The correct side is whoever won at the time.

 

That's just a very silly platitude. There are plenty of reliable independent sources to show the quite miraculous health, education and work benefits enjoyed by Cubans post 1959. Only a a person with vested interests - or an inability or unwillingness to see outside of propaganda - would seek to deny them.

 

I know very clearly that if you were taught at school to look at verifiable facts that, in terms of Cuba, you are ignoring. But then you do live in a country with the most rotten and corrupt political system in the western world where 40% of its electors never ever vote, and where the mainstream media at national, regional and local level is a joke. So you just believe what they feed you.

 

I learned at school how to orderly go to the hallway and squat down and put my head between my knees to lessen the effects of the bomb blast that might be headed our way any day. I learned later in life how some real Cubans felt about Cuba and also the United States. I have a Cuban partner rides my work truck daily. He told me last week how he felt about anybody he saw burning the American flag. I wouldn't say it was nice. I've never heard him say anything at all about the Cuban flag.

 

Actually, no, it is not. But your country hasn't actually been involved in a real war in the past few decades, has it?

And for the purpose of any future disagreements, spare me your thoughts on the US media. No, it's not perfect. No, no one who lives outside the US actually understands how it works. That includes you. Suck it up, and please shut up about it.

 

It is and if you read one of a number of studies you will see it's nonsense. Of course, watch any film about WW2 made in the USA and you might think your idea had some credence.
The history of Cuba - economically and socially - is well written about, independently of the Cuban authorities. So the sentiment was both a platitude and inaccurate.

As for the UK's assistance in (mostly) illegal wars in Suez, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and elsewhere until very recently is on the record - usually as a lap dog to the USA.

As for mainstream media, in the UK it is barely any less biased or twisted than in the USA. As a more than 30 year regular visitor to the USA I know the main media streams there as well as you do. I've been buying the NYT since I was a teenager. A great paper with many flaws. But still better than the UK Times, Telegraph or Guardian.
Your country's political and social culture has always been inward looking and isolationist (except when it comes to joining conflicts as a johnny-come-lately or invading some piss-poor place) and the media always parochial, with a population of whom only about 2 in 10 even have a passport. That goes a long way to explaining why Cuba has a health and education system that makes your systems look pre-historic.

 

The entire world felt fear during the Cold War - which had nothing to do with Cuba if you even bothered to do a bit of simple study - so your experience is the same anywhere and not relevant to this thread. But if you want FACTS the USA installed nuclear weapons - POINTED DIRECTLY AT THE SOVIET UNION - in Turkey, and despite constant requests for arms discussions by Krushchev that were ignored by the USA, they took a reasonable decision to call the imperialist bluff and site their own on Cuba. It did the trick and the USA crawled away with its tail between its legs and dismantled the weapons in Turkey, and proceeded to ratchet up the horror in Vietnam.

 

with a population of whom only about 2 in 10 even have a passport


So by that I guess more people in Cuba has passports. And most people in Europe also? And Africa? And China? And South America?

 

I can't take anything you have posted in this entire thread seriously.
If this below was your comment in a first year college course the lecturer would probably give you an F grade.

 

Sorry, I wouldn't be taking your classes anyhow. A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

 

Not my classes - take any class on any subject that covers culture and insularity. You would be expected to use your brains and do research. Though at the end of it you'd end up with a mountainous debt in the USA, but not one cent in Cuba.

 

I'll take the education I received by serving the US Navy. That and the on the job training and experience that went with it, Not just the technical, but the social and cultrial and leadership and management experiences to boot! I use plenty of 'brain' in my life and it is not in the pursuit of degrading other peoples family, life, lifestyle or country. Most people can't help where they were born. And most people can't choose where they live. Some are lucky enough to have choices. I glad with mine as is!

 

You never answered one single point in the reply to your post #131 so you are not only not taken seriously by me, but no one else who was genuinely interested in an actual intellectual discussion. Every post you have made here has been based on zero facts and when shown that you ignore it. You're like a Fox news student! lol
Read Manufacturing Consent by your fellow countrymen Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky and discover the errors in your mindset.

 

All I see in your reply to post 131 is a comparison between USA/ Turkey and USSR/Cuba. We and the Soviets move weapons and defenses all the time and always will. Are the two situations with USA/Turkey and USSR/Cuba equal. Are the USA and Soviets on a equal playing field? Probably. Are Turkey and Cuba on a equal footing. I doubt it. You know something, I like the Cuban people and I'm sure the country is beautiful and with plenty to offer. I'm not interested in going there, just as I'm not interested in going to any other country any more. Been there. Done that. But to respect Castro - never!

 

You simply don't get it. So good luck.

 

How many Africans (black people) were killed by Castro's soldiers (Cubans) in their countries?

 

I suggest you research it.
How many Iraqis died following the illegal invasion?
In the years since the Iraq invasion, how many new generations of Iraqis have been born with life-threatening disabilities because of the USA's illegal use of depleted Uranium in their two assaults on Fallujah?
How many Chileans were murdered in the weeks after the USA funded and organised the coup against an elected government in 1973?
How many Iranians were tortured and murdered for 26 years by the Shah of Iran after the USA organised and funded the illegal coup overthrow of the elected government of Mohammad Mosaddegh?
How many Egyptians were routinely tortured and murdered by the regime of Hosni Mubarak kept in power with money and arms from the USA between 1981 and 2011?
How many East Timorese were murdered with the economic and military funding of the USA between 1975 and 1999?

I doubt you will answer even one of the above so don't hold your breath for mine.

 

The thread is titled Rip Fidel...

 

You asked about imaginary murders by Cuban forces - there were not any outside of the Angolan conflict.
I've given you FACTS about six decades of murders at the hands of a different regime.
You would be welcomed into the arms of fascists and murderers the world over by your logic. Your line of argument is reminiscent of that of Nazi holocaust deniers.

 

Why don't you just start a new thread on why you don't like America. In fact there are plenty of websites that will gladly have your content on their pages.

 

No. Why don't you but on a subject you actually know something about.
And there are many more websites that promote the nonsense you and a few others here promote. People who can't tell black from white.
And before you start deliberately engaging in duplicitous comment, read back in the thread where criticisms of other countries are in posts. The Iraq illegal invasion, for example, was carried out by more countries than just the worst single culprit. And the economic blockade of Cuba didn't involve only the USA. Try harder to find some honesty and integrity.