Battery Life Management

Replacement laptop batteries are so horrendously expensive you are pretty well forced to buy another machine when they finally get to the stage where they can no longer hold a decent charge. So trying to manage the battery into a healthy old age must be worthwhile. There's lots of stuff on the web about squeezing the max out of your battery, but it's mostly about power saving rather than life management. This Lenovo E335 laptop originally had a Lenovo app which took charge of all this, so it would not start recharging until the battery was partially deleted, which seems the preferred strategy. But since then the machine has been upgraded to Win 10, and as Lenovo do not support it for Win 10 this app isn't available and I'm having to leave it to Windows to manage it. Right now the battery icon says 77% available (plugged in, not charging) and it's been like that for a couple of hours, which doesn't ring true to my mind so I'm not very comfortable leaving this important function to Win 10 which probably does not even know what type of battery the machine has.

Can anyone shed any light on this topic?

 

You can manage battery power settings easily in Win 10. My own way is simply not to use the battery power source unless needed, so it remains plugged into a power socket most of the time. But I do use 'battery only' about once a week till it falls to 15% then I just plug it back in.
You can choose in Power Options when you want it to start charging when the system is plugged in to a power socket.
The type of battery is more or less irrelevant and even the Lenovo app would only have been doing what Windows does.

 

That's more or less how I use mine, but the weekly discharging is only based on empirical knowledge picked up donkey's years ago and may or may not be necessary or beneficial with today's li-on batteries. Do you have something better?

That option doesn't appear in my (advanced) power options, or if it does I'm not recognising it.

 

Max's method of letting the battery run down every so often is actually how you calibrate the notebook's battery monitoring circuitry with the battery - which needs to be done every so often.

I do it about once a month with my 7 year old Toshiba, but I just run it on battery until the notebook's battery monitoring forces the notebook into hibernation when the charge drops below some predefined threshold. I think that is about 7%, but not sure. It does not matter. It should discharge as much as possible, as long as there is enough charge/time to complete going into hibernation. I have never lost any work I was doing at the time - which of course, is the point of hibernation. Then I plug it in and let it fully charge.

I sure would trust Windows 10 to manage this before any 3rd party app. What makes you think some third party app knows more about your battery than Microsoft? Your 3rd party app was probably developed by some guy in his garage using Microsoft developed api's anyway. Microsoft has $Billions and teams of professional developers, plus decades of empirical data to draw from.

Agreed!

RTFM! Your notebook maker will note the best procedure to ensure you get the most out of your battery in your notebook manual. While they are all very similar, there may be little nuances between the brands (and between models within the same brand) and those will be documented in the manual.

 

My Lenova g70-70,core i7does exactly the same. Also Windows 10.
I found that by removing the charger, and allowing plenty of time to cool down, as I felt it might be overheating/becoming faulty, and when it was cold, I reconnected the power supply, and charging went xxx minutes to full charge on the battery icon.
It would then fully charge.

 

http://www.howtogeek.com/224501/how-to-improve-battery-life-with-windows-10s-new-power-settings/

The problem with branded systems (and why I stopped buying them years ago) is because they load the box with rubbish bloatware that is not needed. That's what the Lenovo battery app was.

 

I'll try that baklogic when I have a few minutes.

My Win 10 isn't a factory system though, it's a clean install, so the MS power options are there and I still can't recognise the one that tells it when to start recharging.

 

Al branded systems without exception include bloatware - you know that from 1000s of threads on that very issue over many years here on MG. And why there are well-known reputable programs hosted on MG to get rid of them. Look at any thread here by anyone that has HP, Acer, Dell system - among others - and find they have a tone of unneeded rubbish.
Windows 10 itself manages power and battery use very well. It doesn't need anything else. I gave you a link to a guide that that even had a screenshot on percentage battery power settings.

 

As I've said, there are no Lenovo apps remaining on this system after a clean install of W10. I had read the howtogeek article before posting. It does not contain a screenshot on percentage battery power settings. It does deal with the battery saver functions which reduce demands on the battery but say nothing about when to start recharging. I suspect that may be a firmware function beyond user control.

In the meantime, 3 hours on, the battery icon is still saying 77% available (plugged in, not charging) so I can't share your confidence in Windows managing it, though I accept it's unlikely there is anything better available. I'll pull the plug and get something happening at least.

 

Fair enough Here's what the manual says -

Maximizing the battery life
To maximize the life of the battery, do the following:
• Use the battery until the charge is completely depleted; that is, use the battery until the battery status
indicator starts blinking orange.
• Recharge the battery completely before using it. The battery is fully charged if the battery indicator shows
green when the ac power adapter is plugged in.
• Always use power management features such as power modes, screen blank, sleep, and hibernation.

It adds that a recharge will take 3-6 hours but says nothing about how frequently you should go through this procedure. Doing it frequently would be quite disruptive imo.

 

Since every user has a different use pattern, they can't really say how often is needed.

Unless you need your notebook as a portable (running on battery) 7 days a week, week after week, I don't see why you cannot unplug it before bed, then just let it run down and plug it in when you wake up.

You seem to be assuming it is Windows job to decide when to charge and when not too. It's not. That is done at the hardware level with the OS just monitoring it. Windows decides when it should retreat into hibernation so you don't lose your work.

Other than that, the charging circuits are doing the active monitoring of the charge. Otherwise, notebooks could not charge when shut off - or before any OS is even installed.

 

Not so. I was responding to Max's assertion that you can control it through Windows power management but it's not so of course.

 

Good luck with it anyway. It's a simple process that is not at all complicated and we will have to agree to disagree about what is possible in Win10. But if you read the HowToGeek article again including the settings screenshots it's very detailed about battery use and settings.

 

Thanks Max. Pleased with this thread as I now have a much better understanding of how it all works plus it has caused me to read what the manual says about battery management and as a result of which I'm going to modify my daily routine to try to comply with the advice. Bit nervous though of taking Digerati's advice to leave it running on battery each night as laptop battery fires are not unknown. Will instead try running on battery during the day and plugging the power in as necessary. Up to now I've always just run on power and just occasionally run the battery down a bit. Seems that's not really advisable.

 

I never ever leave any of my laptops 'on' overnight whether powered by battery or direct socket power. I shut Windows and the system down completely, and unplug the power line if it was in because of the risk of power surge that might fry the laptop or cause a fire.

 

Me too, and for the same reasons.

 

I share your concern about Li-Ion battery fires but understand those typically happen regardless. That is, fires happen while charging. Fires happen while using the notebook on battery. And fires happen when unplugged and not using the notebook. In other words, a defective battery is a defective battery. If it is going to catch fire, it will, regardless.

Do you have any wireless phones in your house? Shaver? Cell phone? Do you make sure you unplug all those before going to bed?

There are really just 2 times when fires typically have not occurred. (1) When the batteries are removed from the device and stored in a cool, dry place, and (2), when the battery is discharged - which is the condition the advice I gave would put the battery in. So I think your fear of taking my advice (letting the battery discharge overnight) is unfounded.

As far as unplugging the notebook overnight out of fear of surges or fires, it is important to understand the primary intent and purpose for notebooks in the first place is for "road warriors" - that is, people who are on the road, at school, or in meeting and presentations who then come home at night and plug their notebooks in to recharge. As you noted, your manual states 6 hours to fully charge can be expected. When is a busy road warrior going to charge it otherwise? It is impractical to only charge them when you are sitting awake next to it, watching for smoke.

If you unplug your notebook at night for fear of fires or power surges, I hope you do that for your cell phones, wireless phones, big screen TV and all the other electronics in your home too.

And BTW, if there is one electronic device, besides a battery, that can tolerate surges and spikes without added protection from a surge and spike protector or a "good" UPS with AVR, it is a transformer, which is exactly what those AC to DC power block/chargers are. Also, statistically, there are more lightning strikes in the afternoon and evening hours than at night because those hours are when the greater changes in temperature and humidity typically occur. Of course, lighting is more spectacular at night because we can see it better. Point being, there is the potential for more surges and spikes coming off the grid due to lightning strikes in afternoon and evening than overnight.

Lastly, there are more surges and spikes during the daylight hours because of those lightning statistics, but also because demands on the power grid increase and fluctuate more dramatically - as air conditioners, factories and other heavy demands cycle on and off, then settle down after dinner.

If you don't want to start your notebook and leave the lid open until the battery runs down while you are sleeping, that's fine. But if fire or surges are the bases for your reasoning, then you should be unplugging all the other rechargeable devices in home at night too. It does not have to be a big notebook battery to burn your house down.

 

It's called being safe and engaging in potential damage limitation. There is never ever any need to keep a laptop on or plugged in when it is not being used or attended.

There is very little actual evidence for the below and it is not relevant anyway.

Luckily, in most parts of the UK the kinds atmospheric or system fault power spikes are very rare compared to large swathes of the USA.

 

That's not true at all! You may never have such a need but there are many who do. First responders, for example, may need to grab and run to an emergency and need a fully charged notebook when they reach the scene. Students and workers need a fully charged notebook when they leave for school or work.

What? Of course it is relevant! Perfectly good batteries are not catching fires. It is the defective ones that are failing.

And the OP said he was concerned about discharging the battery overnight.

This thread is not about your needs, or what is relevant to you, Max.

 

Yep, get the picture - it's devices with Li-Ion batteries that could pose a fire risk, in our case a couple of 3 yr old Lenovo laptops and two mobile phones - not Note 7s! both over a year old. House phones, remotes etc are all alkaline or NMH and AFAIK safe. It's helpful to understand a bit better - thank you.

 

Depends on the age and model. More and more devices are going with Li-Ion.

But make no mistake, NiMH batteries can catch fire too. There are lots of video out there. In fact, any battery, if shorted, can overheat.

 

Enough already, I've got quite enough reasons not to sleep without the thought that everything in the house may be about to self-ignite

 

It's no wonder if you look in the manuals of almost anything, it will say to unplug if you will be away for awhile. Of course that's the lawyers talking, but still... .

 

I never said 'I' don't have a need. I cannot work out a reason (other than leaving a system to update overnight) why anyone would need that. And what some people do is neither here nor there.
The OP has made it clear they don't need to leave the system plugged in and on when not in use. That's what is relevant.
You also grossly exaggerate the risk of fire for unattended things like cordless phones and other Wi-Fi based appliances. Fire authorities produce regular reports on all the causes of fires in the home, and most of the appliances you mention don't feature prominently. Faulty wiring, chip pan fires, tobacco products (cigarettes/cigars), and gas leaks are the biggest causes by a long chalk. On your logic we should just go and live in a cave.

 

That's for the OP's normal use patterns. This is NOT about that. This is about "exercising" the battery to ensure it and the notebook's monitoring are fully synchronized and calibrated. In other words, a couple times a month thing - not day in and day out.

I am not! Read what was said, including what YOU said, Max - which is all over the place.

I already said I leave my devices plugged in. YOU noted you,

So it is you grossly exaggerating the risk of fire, not me! And as I noted, lawyers.

Note you also said you unplug from the wall because of the risk of power surges that might fry the laptop. Then you turn around and state how rare atmospheric caused power faults are in the UK.

So because you can't figure out any reason (other than updates), what other people do is not important? Irrelevant? Or neither here nor there? Wow. That's a bit self-centered, isn't it?

1. Notebooks are designed to just shut the lid and come back later - even the next day or week - and pick up where you left off.
2. chkdsk /r can take many hours, even over night.
3. Deep scans for malware can take many hours, even over night.
4. Battery calibration and/or charging can take many hours, even over night (note the OP said his manual said up to 6 hours to fully charge).​

There's no point in discussing this with you further, Max. You twist what others say, and even twist about what you say. Good day.

 

This is way off-topic now as the OP's request for information on how to manage the battery life was dealt with fully many posts ago. It got distracted down the line of damage and fire, mostly unnecessarily, and I apologise for going along with it, and being short-sighted and engaging in that total irrelevance.

 

Both of you went off on a tangent, points made may have been relevant, and worth talking about- thanks Digerati, and Max.

 

I see this as the nub of the answer to my original question, and I'm interpreting it as 'leave the system on on battery to flatten it about twice a month. Otherwise it's ok to leave it connected to a power source 24/7.' Correct me please if that isn't what you mean.

 

That's exactly what I do and my battery is 7 years old and still going strong.

In the olden days, they used to frown on keeping the charger connected 24/7 because they used to use NiCad batteries and they suffer badly from "memory effect". That is, the batteries got used to being fully charged all the time and would drop off significantly after just a short time of use. While Li-Ion batteries can suffer from memory effect too (as recent studies with electric cars have shown), the effects are much less severe and much easier to counter.

 

Thanks. Question properly answered.

 

You are welcome. Of course all batteries degrade over type. You cannot stop the chemical reaction going on inside no matter what you do. You can come close by freezing them, but that introduces other problems - not least of which is condensation. So I say mine is still going strong after 7 years and that is true. But when it was new, I got about 2 1/2 hours of run time out of it, now I get about 90 minutes - though I can increase that if I throw the notebook into "Eco" mode which dims the display, turns off key backlighting and the sounds.

 

The few batteries I have purchased were through Amazon using the serial number on the battery, price always seemed very reasonable to me. Using a SSD has increased the battery up time in our laptops as well, but they are usually left plugged in, so software handles the battery for the most part, recharging it at about 80% when plugged in.

 

Yeah, that's how ours were being managed, but we started seeing some odd effects like battery at 20% and not charging. Digerati advised running the battery flat a couple of times a month as this will calibrate the charging circuits. Whatever that actually means it appears to have worked and recharging automatically at x% is now working normally again. He also says this should give the max battery life, but that's pretty hard to prove of course.

 

Not sure "calibrate" is really the right word but I note that is what most of the notebook industry calls it. It is more like getting the charge rate monitoring program, battery, and power save settings all synchronized. This helps ensure when the meter says 50% it really is 50% (or at least close to it). And so it does not, for example, go into hibernate mode when there is still 40% charge left because the monitoring program reported it was down to 5%.

But it is not really "calibrated" any more than the fuel gauge on your car is calibrated to indicate the exact amount of fuel left in the tank. They usually pretty good pointing to F and E for Full and Empty, but every car I have had always seems to have a much bigger top "half" than bottom "half".