Here We Go Again.......

I thought the article said they sold the shooter a pump action shotgun that wasn't used but it could easily have been used.
I liked that the CEO stated that as a company they no longer wish to be part of the ongoing problem and that is why they are taking this action

 

My feelings about the politicians (and the ordinary folk) who say thoughts and prayers for the victims and do nothing to make changes to the laws have also blood on their hands just like the murderers pervs.

 

This time around I've seen more individuals, companies, and even lawyers, business people and even our Gov here in Florida accepting and pushing for change. There is talks of banning the big magazines, raising the age for rifles, and in Florida spending 500M on new school security actions. Mental health is finally getting more attention also. I think change is in the wind. Probably not as much as some would be to want. But good to see there is room to start on this awful problem.

 

It's already been shown where the shooter bought his AR. It was a legal sell by all accounts. Some charges were never filed against the shooter prior to this because of mishandling of some calls to police and not reporting some problems in school because of a program to raise graduate rates by letting some kids stay in school after problems. Basically not filing charges. A federal program to administer money to schools by raising their number of retention of students thru graduation.

 

@#45: It's idiotic to think that teachers should be armed. The police then would have no idea who the actual criminal shooter would be and therefore teachers could be mistakenly be killed by the officers.

 

About time!
It boggles the mind that an 18 year old can buy a semi-auto rifle but not a beer...

 

This is shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.........maybe a better strategy is to not let dangerous people have guns in the first place .... but this so obvious even the schoolkids can figure this out

 

There is an earlier history of semi-auto rifles when times were simpler. Marlin Model 60's, Ruger 10/22 and Remington Nylon 66 were some popular small game and target semi .22 caliber rifles. Lots of kids got these around 13 or 14 years of age as christmas or birthday presents. Same time as most would be able to go hunting or just shooting out behind the barn with friends without adults once they had been taught safety and handling. Larger were the 30.06's, .243's, 6mm and 7mm. Mostly large game guns. Shells too expensive for just wasting at targets except when 'sighting in sights or scopes for various ranges. After that shells were saved for the hunt.

Around that time when these were most popular, there were whole completely different laws on firearms, cars, alcohol and other activities. When I was a teenager in the 70's any kid who had worked and saved the money could buy their own 22 or shotgun. (Some stores might have required a parent's signature). As for beer, where I lived (mississippi), beer was 18, wine was 19 and hard liquor was 21. As time went on in the late 70's into 80's we were having more and more fatal car accidents involving alcohol. Mothers Against Drunk Driving came along and started the push for change. Legal limits became set for driving under influence/ driving while intoxicated along with various fines. Many states were slow to come around to the new age. so the feds came up with withholding federal highway funds from states that weren't complying. In the end all states had to go to no open container, .08 limit and 21 to purchase basically from that effort.

Not to distract from this thread but some similar action here, as MADD started back then, may be the turning tide in this new age awful problem.

 

Thanks @Imandy Mann,
Hopefully the laws will be amended. Especially with regards to semi-auto rifles.
Higher licensing fees and a levy on ammunition will also help.

 

As long as we continue to send our sons and daughters overseas to kill our enemies they will return home with their weapon of choice. I for one am not willing to deny them that right. While I do not own a firearm, or a fishing pole for that matter, I do understand the consequences of others having that right and am willing to live or die for that freedom. All the warning signs were there, but no one acted on them. Many lives, including that of the assailant, ended way to soon because of apathy. I for one don't like the smell coming from either side of the aisle, so don't play politics with this. How did they get it right in Switzerland?

 

Hmmm....what about veterans, who are trained to kill, returning home and these weapons you won't deny them the right to own are suddenly turned on civilians because the vet has PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).
Although these aren't mass shootings they still occurred and the perpetrators were returned veterans.
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/cri...tions-police-training/Y03LR869YFaeU0UTimXZfJ/
Most people aren't asking for "ALL" weapons to be banned just certain classes of weapons. There have been several people saying that the inanimate object, being the gun, doesn't kill as it is a person that does the killing.
The big point to take from this is that these ongoing mass killings all involve people with guns so making it harder to get the guns that can do so much damage in such a short time should be on the agenda and in this particular shooting, not allowing an 18yo kid, with known issues, to buy an assault weapon and ammunition. As has been previously stated, the shooter at 18 couldn't legally buy a beer but could legally go out and buy any number of assault rifles and ammunition WTF

With due respect @Bugballou this is ALL about politics because the legislators have been bought off by the NRA so will therefore take no action and are only offering their prayers and best wishes which is really cold comfort for the families and friends of the victims.....and then it happens again with more prayers and wishes........and again with more prayers and wishes......... How many innocent kids have to die just so people can keep their right to own a military grade weapon in a civilian situation

 

Crikey I just saw this and are gobsmacked or is that god smacked

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ania-church-blessing-idUSKCN1GC2V3?utm_source

Hey @LauraR after reading the above, I hope you live in Philadelphia and not Pennsylvania........ IIRC it starts with P

 

The conservative gun owners biggest nightmare come true:
“I think they should have taken them away, whether they had the right or not.” “Take the guns first. Go through due process second.” “I like taking the guns early.”
Imagine the uproar had it been the last President who uttered those words.

 

I know a lot of teachers and some school administrators, some are family others are friends of mine. I also know two survivors of a school shooting, one who was shot and is now a school teacher. Many of these people own guns for self protection or hunting but NONE that I have talked to want to carry a gun while doing their job in a school. There has to be a better answer than arming teachers and principles in schools.

 

Oooops....for some reason after I sat up almost all night, I somehow thought Philadelphia was a state My bad Thanks for putting me straight
Glad to hear it is not a usual thing although when I was reading it I thought crikey here is another church as crazy as that Baptist church that causes all sorts of problems at the funerals of soldiers.
Glad to hear there are 130 miles between you and the Moonies.......it might save you from getting caught in the crossfire

 

I agree katkat I don't think arming teachers has been given enough thought, especially what could go wrong.
The problem I see is when the first responder police arrive, how do they determine (in a split second) who is the shooter and who are the teachers defending the students.......seems to me the teachers with guns could end up being accidentally shot by law enforcement...... after they shoot first and ask questions later......then there would probably be more thoughts and prayers sent with apologies for the unfortunate collateral damage.

 

I think you are referring to the Westboro Baptist Church. They are not a real Baptist Church nor do they have the same beliefs as Baptist. In my opinion they should not be confused with real Baptist Churches or any true church for that matter. They are extremely misguided.

 

There you go katkat...over here in the Aussie media, the Westboro Baptist Church is portrayed as a mainstream religion and I presumed this was true

@TimW harsh.... but fair roflmao

 

I think this article sums up my thoughts much better than I can say it.

http://walterewilliams.com/hidden-agenda-or-ignorance/

 

I agree with the article, and particularly like this part...

The writer should have added...
We care for murderers (free accommodation, clothing, food, etc.) while murdering unborn babies.
But...
We are discussing mass shootings involving semi-auto rifles in the US.

 

Americans...?
Ask yourself some of these questions, or ponder the comments.

We have a lot of bad guys, importing, and selling drugs.. and killing one another in the process. Who are their customers? Americans.

We have decent hard working Mexicans, busting their butts to have a decent life here. I've SEEN the white American kids.. completely unwilling to work that hard. Criminals come in every size shape and color. They are not our enemies.

We have a democracy. Two parties basically, so there is always a stalemate in congress. And all of those folks, filling their pockets, and most of them lying to us. Votes so close that the winner didn't get the majority. We're all seeing the results from that one.

Who is concerned about the planet, when digging and burning coal generates a few antiquated jobs, but banning or taxing the sale of good cheap Chinese solar panels bites off our noses to spite our faces. Can we REALLY learn non-fake news, by listening to a doper radio show host like some Rush Limp-brain.. as the ONLY source? Wait till your water supply tastes like bad chemicals and natural gas... or worse, full of lead.

We are the rich.. so they say. Just look at the boats, and cars, and airplanes, and mansions as houses. And that the upity-ups, and the stock players, are rolling in it, while a single mom, (or dad) has 2 jobs to make ends meet. And little Johnny gets a Playstation, and a shoot-em up game, AND a cell phone. But there is no time for love, communication, or character building activities. WTF.. lol.. btw.. IDK!! "Good conversation son!" (...shot anyone lately??)

Consider the world of religions.. google says 4200 at last count. What are they good for? Building hypocrites as best I can tell. If you don't follow the cult, your soul is damned, and you are TOLD you are a sinner. And.. of course, if you are gay, or black, or from Mexico, or you believe differently.. then you are classified as a heathen, and basically shunned. And EVERYWHERE in the world, one religious faction.. is doing their best to kill all the other religious factions. ISIS as the bad guys?? Sure. Now read about hundreds of years of killing during the Crusades. Hundreds more years, during the Inquisition.. lets TORTURE them. Leonardo da Vinci? Oh yeah, let's kill him. (Gay and outspoken, and one of the most amazing men who ever walked this earth). And Pilgrims who steal the land from the native Americans, and truck in all the slaves they can afford. We've been screwing black people for as long as we've been a country. They told me, "Kill a Commie, for God" when I was sent to Vietnam.. and likely "Kill ISIS in the middle east". MILLIONS have been killed there!!

And a deficit? Well, that fun eye for an eye War on Terror, cost us 5 TRILLION. That's 5 thousand BILLION. So yeah.. we can't afford teachers, or health care, or even well trained armed guards if needed? (I'm not an advocate). Nope, we're deep in debt.

Sure, guns are a problem. And idiots, and politicians, and global warming, and cult members, and supremacists, greed, power, control, corruption.. and lazy Americans. Talk to your neighbors, call or write your congressman, spend time with your family. Accept people who are different. Cause the last good 8 mile wide space rock got wasted on fun-loving dinosaurs. Jerry

 

I disagree - If they are criminals, they are our enemies. Maybe not across an ocean or a border, but a criminal is our enemy none the less.

As for the other thoughts you bring up - What did you do to make your surroundings a better place today?

 

Everyone has a right to disagree. But lets face the truth. SOME people in the US are accepting of others, not prejudice, not homophobic, not Xenophobic. A whole bunch of folks in the US have one or more of those issues. It's why someone like Trump got elected. The Christians think God will smite them for being accepting. While many others live in fear, of one flavor or another. Education in general would help that. Some, just think they are better than everyone else. Hitler was like that.

People can do bad things. People can do good things. I don't drive anywhere, but what I'm over the speed limit. But look at my driving record, or the lack of accidents. Did I break the law? Yes. Did I harm anyone in the process? No.

We don't have any problem shipping Chevy, and Chrysler, or RCA production to Mexico, for what? Cheap labor. But if they come here, and do jobs our folks won't.. then some people call them criminals. But EVERYONE (minus 2% of native Americans).. are FOREIGNERS here in the US.. and a whole bunch of them, do all kinds of crimes every day. It doesn't say much for us, as accepting or loving people, to round up folks who have lived here for 20 years peacefully, worked hard, and then truck them back to Mexico.

Remember the shooter in this thread? American. Hung out with Supremacists. Had a bad attitude, and the people who were giving him shelter, didn't take precautions to keep him from having easy access to a high powered rifle, with a high velocity bullet, that makes HUGE HOLES when it exits. My .22 squirrel rifle, would just pass thru in most cases. I own guns, but I don't hunt with them, and don't shoot students either. And yes, I think the NRA are idiots, to say, "The press is using this for shock value". THAT is blatant ignorance!

What did I do today? I wrote REAL letters to people, some who I know, some who I do not. It's called caring, communicating, and conveying intelligent, and/or thought provoking ideas. Saturday I'll meet with a group of people, like me, interested in among other things, the survival of the species. I'm not certain that's a good idea.

 

Sounds like too much negativity for me. I actually saw a varied cross-section of different peoples today out in the real world and most were polite, non-obstructive, and seemed to have a common goal of 'Let's have a good day!'

 

Virtual sand is a wonderful thing for a lot of people...

 

virtual sand vs real life? I know which one I like.

 

Yes, it's a start.

As long as there are high-paid lawyers specializing in finding loopholes there will be a case.
Doesn't the ban on the sale and/or ownership of automatic rifles violate the 2nd amendment?

FWIW... In south Africa one of the 'rights' is the right to freedom of movement. Doesn't a speed limit of 120km/h inhibit that right?

People who cling to their country's constitution and bill of rights like it's their mother, father, god & universe, the alpha and omega of all that may (or may not) be done, need to wake up. If the former was true, we could and should scrap all other laws...

 

I've been a hunter and a gun owner for much of my life. I have never seen a problem with finding/ buying a gun. With so many on the store shelves and hanging on display, I don't see how anyone could say their right to own a firearm is being slighted. I live in Florida where these new laws are coming in and I don't feel infringed on not one bit. The NRA isn't speaking for all gun owners.

 

You think that's the real problem? That's the whole point of constitutional government, Eldon. Without it, we're stuck with rule by fiat.

 

The lawsuits are 'interesting' (referring to the people suing over raising the age to 21 to buy long guns. I think they are trying to go with an age discrimination suit. I don't think they will be successful against a state, but might have a chance against a store, like Dick's Sporting Goods.

Personally, I don't really think changing the age from 18 to 21 will help anything, but don't have a problem as long as it is done legally.

 

Actually, we are a Republic (Representative Republic if memory serves). I do agree, many politicians are in it to line their pockets to our detriment. (ALL parties included).

Rush Limbaugh is an opinion media type. Not meant to really be news, he talks about news, gives his opinion. Not sure who considers him to be the ONLY source of news. Current main stream media are not doing a very good job of reporting the news, they also report their opinions, often as facts.

Oh, and coal did not do this. https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-spill/index.html

 

@Fred_G, I found an interesting article about America's gun culture.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081
I like to see both sides of the coin...

 

The bad thing about charts, graphs and numbers - this from the bbc link above



This shows me that the total of about 34000 guns out of 270Million, given in the article, is about .0012%, used for these nefarious purposes. That leaves a whole bunch in the hands of rightful, legal owners.

 

OK, we can call it this, from your link.

I think I like that term better.

 

My link was from 2015, Rump had nothing to do with that.

 

No, the network news. Like CNN and such. From my post:

If you would like me to point out a few of those examples of the mainstream media, I will be glad to in the next day or so.

 

http://teacherlink.ed.usu.edu/tlresources/reference/factbook/geos/us.html

What the.... CIA does not agree with the WAPO?