Any Good Upses That Work With Old/flaky House Wires?

The problem I've had for the past several years is I can't use my 2 UPSes (APC brand), so I can't use my desktops. (I will not risk plugging them in.)

The UPSes won't charge up, or if they do (it's hard to tell, there's no LED, but they constantly click), they won't power anything on the battery. It's seems they don't like the wires in old houses (this is from 2 places now), and so they are trying to "protect" me...but that's exactly (one of) the purpose(s) of UPS!

I've tried letting them charge for a day or two before plugging anything in. One of them let me light a lamp of the battery once, then when I moved it, it wouldn't anymore.

Nobody's going to rewire the house. Has anyone heard of a brand that knows people with old houses need it more than anyone?

By "flaky", I don't mean the power is generally unreliable. I just mean you see the lights flicker on a regular basis, you can hear a window fan slow down if you plug in a clothes iron or see a light dim sligltly every time the iron "clicks" (the heating element has activated to keep the water at temperature).

 

My house was built in 1955. I don't think your house wiring is the problem. (unless it was built when aluminum wiring was used) It is the amount of voltage coming into the house. You have to update from 110 volt to 220 volt. Houses were built without foreseeing all the electrical appliances we now have plugged in today.

All UPS use a battery, no matter what brand. The battery doesn't last forever. The life span is from 3 to 5 years then either you purchase a new UPS or replace the battery. My current one, and third one I've owned, was purchased in 2017.
https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-Protector-Back-UPS-BE600M1/dp/B01FWAZEIU
It powers my modem and router for about 3 hours. I can run a laptop off the laptop battery then I switch to my smart phone.
We were without power for 18 hours on Christmas Day. It went out at around 2am so by the time I got up, everything was off.

The internal battery will wear out quicker if you have a lot of power spikes or brownouts in your region.

 

Ummm, no. Why would that be necessary?

If you convert an entire house from 110VAC to 220VAC, you would have to change the power supplies (if not universal - and most are not) for everything in the house - TVs, refrigerators, coffee pots, computers, alarm clocks, electric blankets, every single light bulb!, washing machine, cell phone chargers. Even the wall outlets themselves would have to be physically swapped out. And not just the power supplies and wall outlets. But then every single power cord on every device in the house would have to be changed too, because 220VAC uses a different connector.

In the US, typically only the kitchen oven, furnace/AC, and electric close dryer use 220V. Everything else runs on 110VAC.

Unfortunately, ShellyCat did not tell us where she lives.

And for the record, even aluminum wiring is fine - AS LONG AS it is still in good repair.

If the voltage being supplied to the house at the "service entrance" is wrong, then it is the power company that needs to fix that.

@ShellyCat - what you need to do first is check your outlets for proper wiring. Every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have the outlet fixed by a qualified electrician.

As far as your UPSs not working, how old are they? It is important to understand that UPS batteries typically need to be replaced every 2 - 5 years. That is just normal maintenance. The batteries typically need to be replaced sooner when the UPS kicks over to battery frequently. And most UPS batteries can easily be replaced by the user too.

I have 3 APC UPS in this house (built in 1960). My house was built with aluminum wiring and two-prong outlets. Most of the outlets have been replaced with 3 prong and are not grounded with a proper 3rd wire. But some do not have a separate ground. My APC UPS, when plugged into those ungrounded outlets will indicate a fault (red LED on the back) but still work.

 

Well perhaps I said it wrong. We went from 110 service to 220 service quite a few years ago. We got a new breaker box. That was it. We did not have to change appliances nor receptacles.

 

This is odd. Are you sure? I ask because essentially forever, electric kitchen ovens have been 220-240VAC. Central heating systems too. In fact, 220VAC drops to the home has been the norm, with 110-120VAC getting split out to the standard wall outlets.

If a home only had 110-120VAC, they would be stuck with a toaster oven and a single hot plate. The oven heating element draws too much current by itself for a 110V circuit. Add a stove top burner (let alone 4 burners) and you must go with 220-240VAC.

Now what was common was when homes previously built without air conditioning had AC added, or when kitchens were updated and gas stoves were replaced with electric, or when electric clothes dryers were installed in laundry rooms then new 220-240VAC circuits had to be added and that often required upgrades to the service panels too.

I remember way back when I was about 8 (in 1960), my dad complaining that not only did he have to pay to have a new 240VAC outlet put in for my mom's new clothes dryer he didn't really want to spend money on, but then he had buy a new "pigtail" for the dryer because the one that came with it was the wrong one. Strange how I remember that but not what I had for dinner last night. Oh well.

I also can't remember where you live (if I ever knew) but if in the US (and I think it is), I bet that is what happened to your home - it was upgraded to support an electric oven, clothes dryer or AC. Because again, I am 100% certain the "drops" into homes in the US have always been 220-240VAC and then 110-120 was split at the service panel for the wall outlets in the living areas.

And the reason for this is because of the resistance in the power grid distribution lines causes too much of a voltage drop. For this reason, it is common for those "transmission lines" to carry 440VAC or even 880VAC to be distributed to the transformers in our neighborhoods. Then 220VAC is "tapped" off the transformer for each house, and "dropped" from the pole to our service entry point (where it enters the house).

 

That may be amperage, not voltage.

 

Good point. Very old homes that were never wired for central air conditioning, or other very high wattage appliances, (electric ovens, clothes dryers, electric central heating - perhaps because they used natural gas) often had less than 100A capacity service. When AC and potentially other appliances were added, service was often upgraded to 150 or 200A or even higher with very large homes.

I bet Just Playin is right here.

 

OK, so one was staying with someone temporarily...and house was built before the person was born, by ancestors. Where I am now is old house split into several apartments.

My UPSes are a bunch of years old, but hadn't been used for a while (they were in storage). Before that, they had less than 10 years use (+ survived overnight outage in huge ice storm before I brought them up to avoid the flood), but they worked fine before I packed them up. (They weren't touched by the flood.) Would heat/cold in storage for a year affect them?

I do have a tester, though I'm nervous about sticking anything in an outlet.
FWIW, I also cannot turn on the living room ceiling fan because it flips the circuit breaker (whereas kitchen fan is fine)...but 1 of the UPSes only worked once in one room, and I had to move it (can't set up my computers just anywhere. Now they won't work anywhere, anyway.

 

Have the batteries and/or capacitors ever been replaced?

 

Yeah, I'm with Eldon on this. It sounds like the batteries are worn out. Just like any battery, they need regular replacement. And UPS batteries typically need to be replaced every 3 - 5 years. I have a nearly 30 year old APC UPS that still works great - but it is on its 5th (I think) set of replacement batteries.

Being in storage should be fine for the UPS itself, as long as it was not too humid, too hot, or too cold. Cool and dry is best. But it is always recommended to disconnect/remove batteries if they are not going to used for extended periods of time. I would be concerned yours might have leaked, or the terminals may now be covered in corrosion. You should make sure the UPS is turned off and unplugged from the wall, then open the battery compartment and inspect the batteries for leaks, corrosion, cracks, and swelling.

While you have the batteries out, check for the specs. Probably the most common UPS SLA (sealed lead-acid) batteries are 12V 7Ah (12 volt, 7 amp-hour) and 12V 9Ah. Note you MUST get the same voltage, but you can always go higher on the amp-hour rating. I have replaced all my 12V 7Ah with 12V 9Ah. That gives me more battery runtime.

I never buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. They charge way too much for the same batteries you can get from Amazon or other battery retailers. The other spec to look for is the terminal size. See,

F1 vs F2 terminal connector size
F1 Terminal – 3/16” (0.187”, 4.8mm) wide
F2 Terminal – 1/4" (0.25”, 6.35mm) wide​

While F1 to F2 (or F2 to F1) adapters are readily available, there typically is not enough room in UPS battery compartments for them. So best to make sure you get the correct one. Some UPSs also use a small plastic piece to position and align the individual batteries correctly in the compartment. Just note how the old battery is configured, save that plastic piece and use it with the new batteries. Most UPS use 2, but some use 4 batteries (cells) to make up the UPS battery. Think of a flashlight that uses 2 AA batteries. Each battery becomes a "cell" to make up the one flashlight battery.

It may sound complicated but once you see it, it becomes obvious.

Back to the storage issue - while these batteries should never be subjected to extreme sub-zero cold, that is actually better than excessive heat. Cold (unless frozen solid) will not hurt a battery - is simply causes the chemical reaction to slow down or stop. This process will return to normal once the battery comes back up to normal operating temperatures. But if the battery is exposed to excessive heat, the chemical reaction process can actually accelerate and in extreme cases, cause the battery to swell up, and crack, leaking battery acid all over the place. Not good.

Well, it is always a healthy concern whenever putting anything into a wall outlet, but that's exactly where outlet testers are meant to go. Even if the outlet is damage, and grossly mis-wired, you will not get hurt, sparks will not fly, fires will not start. The tester's indicator lights will just light up, indicating the status of the outlet. I would much rather put a tester in a questionable outlet than one of my expensive computers, big screen TV, or home theater audio equipment.

 

You should have the wiring of the house inspected. Before it burns down, I have seen it happen.

FWIW...
I learned the hard way, and the right way. When working with 25,000 volts there's no room for mistakes...

 

Thanks for all that awesome information, folks! I'm going to print this (to PDF)!

I'm with "plodr" on the (potentially) aluminum wiring, as houses here are often hundreds of years old. (I don't think mine's quite that old.) Also with "Digerati" on the upgrade ... like I said, I'm in an area of old houses turned into apartments (cheap, but with nice appliances)! So I can't "have the house inspected" (and I imagine it has aluminum wiring, anyway).

I didn't know you could buy new batteries for your UPSes! Like I said, neither of them kicked the bucket before I moved, and I was sure to add up the needs of my computers, printers, etc + get larger capacity. We have hot summers and cold winters, so maybe the summer heat in storage killed them, too...at least that's what I hope.

My neighbor in a different building doesn't have lights that flicker and his house is newer, so I think I'll test my UPSes at his house before I spend any money. If they're shot, I'll try a replacement battery in the 1200VA one. (I got a great deal at Best Buy several years ago when they discontinued them to bring in a "store brand" which is undoubtedly also really APC.) If that doesn't work, I'm up the creek because I can't move, unless someone across the street moves out and I want to spend a month hauling everything up a flight of stairs. (It's +$100 over there unless you're upstairs, because it's 2BR.) And I'll lose my huge kitchen closet-turned pantry...really don't want to do that!

Thanks so much for all the detail. I have to review it offline, so this was a HUGE help! I Really mean that!

 

Oops! Sorry I accidentally re-quoted myself while editing. Feel free to delete that!

 

Thanks for all the information. I got a proper-sized screwdriver (was so small + partially-stripped I thought it was a Tx but was just Phillips after all). However, the cover doesn't seem to want to come off -- I'm afraid to force it because I'm unsure if I should be opening the front or the back. (The manual doesn't show how to replace the battery.) They are CyberPower BC1200 + BC900 (sorry I said they were APC!) which are 1200VA + 900VA. I emailed support at a reseller last week (https://RefurbUPS.com) and haven't got a reply. Who do you guys recommend?

Or if you like, let me see if I can attach a couple of pictures...Ok. The front only has one screw so I did try to gently pry if off. I don't want to force it. The back has 6 and I didn't touch it yet because I don't know if I should be opening that end.

(Reply to several of you: sorry, I didn't dig out my tester yet!)

 

Oh? Do you have the manual? According to your 3rd picture, that is a 1200AVR and the manual here shows how to change them.

 

Thanks a bunch! I ended up with the wrong manual (electronic) + I don't know what happened to the original. Obviously that's why my sticker looks different! Digerati, you rock! I haven't heard from either CyberPower nor a reseller (https://refurbups.com if anyone wants to know) ... not hearing from the manufacturer is rather disappointing. I actually managed to get BOTH covers off (finally) but there's so many wires on both ends I can't even see what to do without instructions.

I will have another go at it ... I was ready to buy another one (it seems there are comparable APC products for only $109 compared to this sticker price of $150, though granted I got 50% off that when Best Buy was selling out). When I get the UPSes and Acer mini-laptop dealt with, I'd like to spend some time writing some tutorials.

 

An UPS should have 2 wires: one black and one red.
The black is generally connected to the negative terminal of the battery when new and shipped with it in place. You just make sure it is firmly attached. All you have to do is connect the red wire to the positive battery terminal and fit the battery and wire in the case.

When replacing a battery you simply remove both wires from the battery. Then first connect the black wire to the negative terminal of the new battery. Second connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and fit the new battery and wires in the case.

 

In addition to what plodr said, understand that many batteries are made of two or more batteries strapped together. When in this configuration, those strapped or connected batteries form "one" big battery. And each individual battery is now a "cell" in that one bigger battery.

Clear as mud, right?

A "cell" is a battery. A cell can be integrated internally into one battery. Or a cell can be a fully separate or discrete power source. For example, a typical car battery consists of 6 internally connected cells that form the one car battery.

But a standard AA battery is technically and also just an individual cell that may be used alone, or with other AA batteries.

For example, a simple flashlight might use two AA batteries. But when used in this manner, the two AA batteries become two "cells" in the flashlight's single battery.

Same thing in a UPS. Many smaller UPS will use a single 12V 7Ah battery like this. But many larger UPS use two or even 4 of those, strapped together to form one big battery. This battery pack, for example, uses two batteries (cells) for form the one bigger battery. Note the "strap" - the small jumper cable strapping the two cells together - leaving the positive (red or +) terminal open, and the negative (black or -) terminal open for the red and black wires plodr mentions.

My point is, when you remove your old battery, note if more than one cell is used. Then note how they are strapped together - perhaps take a picture. Do NOT throw away those straps. The new battery/cells may not come with them. Then configure your cells to form the one larger battery your UPS uses.

One last thing. Do not toss your old UPS battery into the trash. Recycle it. Best Buy will take them (no cost to you) as will many auto parts stores. Approximately 90% of the materials in those SLA (sealed-lead acid) batteries can be recycled and kept out of our landfills and water supplies.

 

You might want to invest in a more robust UPS system.

Find out more:
https://www.vertiv.com/en-emea/abou.../what-are-the-different-types-of-ups-systems/

 

This is little more than pure marketing hogwash. Note that article is written by a company that wants us to buy one of their double conversion supplies.

This is almost exactly like the marketing hogwash we often see by companies that insist we all new "pure sinewave" output UPS. Nonsense! Simulated or "stepped approximation" output UPS have been used to protect computer and other critical electronic systems for decades. There is no reason they suddenly can't today.

There is nothing wrong with a decent line-interactive UPS with AVR. Note the ATX Form Factor standard for computers requires all standard ATX computer power supplies provide "Hold-up" power for any outage (or significant drop in voltage) for at least 17ms. That is not very long.

If such an outage caused the lights to flicker, we (as human beings) would not even see it. In fact, the threshold for "human awareness" is around 30ms. This means if there was a significant voltage drop of 20ms, for example, our eyes and brains would not notice, but that is plenty long for the computer power supply to cease output causing the computer to crash for no "apparent" reason.

HOWEVER, any decent "line-interactive" UPS can easily detect, compensate for, or, if necessary, cut-over to battery power in 10ms or less! Of course, there are some essential assumptions here. I am assuming the computer's power supply meets the ATX Form Factor requirements. Most decent PSUs from the reputable makers do. And I am assuming the PSU and the UPS are working properly. But those are not unreasonable assumptions.

I do agree, at least for computer systems, home theater audio/video electronics, medical health monitoring and life support devices, and other sensitive and "mission critical" systems, you do NOT want a simple, basic battery backup UPS. But no one is talking about that type UPS in this thread.

Are double conversion, pure sinewave UPS better? Maybe. Do we need them to protect our consumer (home) electronics? Nope. If you can find one that meets your needs at a comparable price, go for it. But don't pass up a decent, line-interactive, stepped approximation output UPS with AVR just because it does not have those (typically more expensive) fancy features.

 

They are not the only company selling "online" UPS' I posted a link to the article for it's information so the OP be informed of the different systems available, I was not selling any one manufacturer.

 

Gee whiz. I was not accusing you, foogoo, of trying to sell anything. Nor did I suggest that company was the only company selling that type UPS.

I was simply pointing out that the article was written by the maker of such products and therefore, the information and claims within should be taken as exaggerated "marketing hype". Just as makers of pure sinewave UPS claim UPSs that output simulated or stepped approximated waveforms are unsuitable for computers (NOT true), or how Apple insists Android phones are junk - a matter of personal opinion. Or how Ford claims their F150 is better than Chevy's Silverado and RAM pickup trucks.

If I had anything to say about your comment it would be your suggestion that online UPS were more "robust". There is nothing to suggest any one type is more robust than any other type. A UPS being "robust" or not depends on it's build quality and ability to tolerate/sustain abuse while still maintaining proper functionality and protection for the connected devices. Abuse, in this case, means power anomalies (surges, spikes, dips, sags and outages).

So a UPS being robust or not depends entirely on the specific model, regardless type.

It should be noted the most important (by far!!!) feature of a good UPS is the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature. I think we can agree a basic battery backup UPS is unsuitable for computers for two main reasons. (1) They do not provide AVR and (2) most are not capable of switching to battery backup fast enough for computer systems during a full power outage.

A "good" (robust!) UPS with AVR, regardless if line-interactive or online, can easily compensate for most surges and spikes, dips (opposite of spikes) and sags (opposite of surges) and brownouts (long duration sags) without even kicking over to battery backup. So with those events, the fact a UPS is line-interactive or online is totally immaterial anyway!

It is only when those anomalous events are extreme (excessive surges and spikes, dips and sags or total outages) that the battery backup function comes in. And again, any decent line-interactive UPS can easily kick over to battery backup with plenty of time to spare.

I say lets just celebrate the fact we all seem to be in agreement that computers should be protected by a good UPS with AVR. After all, surge and spike protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords as they do absolutely nothing for low voltage events like dips, sags or brownouts. And for excessive surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good. And if the surge and spike protector is worn out (it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years) or damaged, they typically provide little to no protection at all.