Question Pc Won't Boot Up And I'm Stuck For Ideas...

Hi all

Having a nightmare day with my PC, grrrr Not sure if it is a software or hardware issue but suspect the latter and so have posted it here.

THE PC
It's an old PC based on an Intel DP35DP and Q6600. 4x2GB sticks of RAM. And an HD5450 graphics card. Windows 7. Still does me fine so no imminent plans to change unless I have to.

THE SITUATION
The PC powers up. The fans run, the optical drives light up, and I can feel the HDDs are running. But the screens stay on standby. I've got a USB wifi thing which is not lighting up. And when I move the mouse or do something on the keyboard, I get no red light on the PC to show hard drive activity. So I'm guessing from this that Windows hasn't loaded, although I wouldn't want to say 100%.

THE CLUES
CLUE1: A few months ago I was having a different issue whereby the PC would randomly turn off. I got lucky first time (for a change)!! I removed two of the four RAM sticks back then and that solved it and it's been fine since. Fast forward a few months and yesterday I finally got round to cleaning the connections on those RAM sticks, and cleaned the slots too, and then put them back in. The PC booted fine after that and showed the full 8GB. I've only used it that one time since putting them back in.

CLUE2: I have an EMU 1820M that stopped working a while ago. Because I'm not currently recording (house renovating instead!) I just unplugged the audiodock and used the onboard sound for music and internet etc. Fueled by yesterday's success with the RAM, this morning I removed the EMU PCI card and gave the terminals and slot a clean. It's since then that's I've been having the problem.

WHAT I'VE TRIED
Removing RAM sticks, putting just one in (and trying different single sticks, in the slot that must be populated).
Taking the EMU PCI card back out, putting it back in. Doing the hokey pokey (but not turning around cos it's all a bit stressful. Every man has his limits).
Disconnecting optical drives.
Disconnecting HHDs (I've got three; I disconnected two leaving just the OS drive connected).
Removing the graphics card and giving it a clean. Setting it back in to make sure it is seated properly.
Trying a different screen.
Possibly other stuff that I've forgotten


If anyone has any ideas as to what else I can try to help narrow down the problem, or any hunches as to what could be the cause, then it would be great to hear from you please. The PC is overdue a clean out, which is something I do from time to time (completely take it apart, clean and re-assemble). In fact, it had been on my radar to do in the next few weeks. Perhaps a good clean and reconnecting everything might solve it. But based on some of the above, I'm not feeling all that optimistic.

Many thanks for reading and for any contributions

 

Are you able to get into the BIOS and see if everything looks OK there?
I take it there's no POST beep though?
If no POST beep, try taking out the RAM and see if it goes nuts.
BTW, don't underestimate the power of the 'turn around'!
BTW2, The guy who invented that song died recently. Everything was going normally at the morgue until they got the coffin and put his right foot in...

 

Do you have a boot disk or anything like that?
Have you tried taking out all the peripherals, including USBs, except the mouse and keyboard? It looks like you have.
Did the EMU work at all this time round?

 

I guess you could try a hard 'reboot' as well. Disconnect the power and press the start button to drain any residual power. Then re-plug and try starting.

 

Many thanks for the replies... In reverse order:

- I tried the hard reboot. No joy.
- I have a very old Linux Live disc which someone once gave me. I'm not even sure what it is to be honest, but I think when he gave it to me it was when I was having troubles and it was to boot to. Anyhow, I've dug it out and tried it but nothing.
- Yes, I've tried removing soundcard, all optical drives, all HDDs, all USB connections, all sticks of RAM except for one, so that all left connected is the GPU, the monitor to the GPU (via VGA) and still nothing.
- No, nothing from the EMU this time around. I plonked it in, booted up, got nothing and here we are now. So the problem started when I removed/replaced the EMU.
- Not getting into BIOS. The monitor is not coming out of standby at all.
- No, there's no POST beep
- I removed the last stick of RAM leaving none in. I got three long beeps. That's about as nuts as it went, nothing more. Still no screen action, or any other action. Just the beeps.

Hahaha very good

Many thanks for all the help

 

I see you've removed several items, but did you get to the point where there was only the mobo, cpu, and power attached? No Video, no USB items, no PCI / expansion cards, NO RAM, no PS2, then boot it up? If so, it should at least POST error for no RAM. Take *everything out* and slowly build it back if it is working, so RAM, boot, then video, boot, and repeat. Also check the power supply, either but a tester or get a multimeter and Google has to test.

 

Does that include removing the connection on the motherboard to the USB and firewire ports on the front (which have nothing plugged into them)?

 

OK, I've got everything disconnected. The only things left connected are the PSU and the CPU. The SATA cables that feed the HDDs and optical drives are still connected to the motherboard, but with nothing connected to any of them at the other end. Should I remove those from the motherboard? I'm presuming there's no need to but please let me know if I should try that.

Anyhow, in the above scenario, I get three long beeps. I then add one stick of RAM. I get nothing. I add the GPU. And I still get nothing.

Haven't got a PSU tester but do have a multimeter so will now look into how to test the PSU with at. Will then take it apart and give it a good clean out.

Thanks a million for all the help.

 

A couple of updates.... I forgot that I have a spare PC I picked up a while back for parts. It's onboard graphics so no joy there, but I took out the PSU and temporarily fixed it up to my main PC. I only connected enough for testing purposes, namely the large motherboard connector, the CPU connector and the system fans. With a stick of RAM in and the GPU in (but everything else still disconnected), I get the same result.

Does that mean the finger is pointing to the GPU?

The other update is a non starter. I took the GPU back out and gave it another visual inspection. I noticed two of the gold teeth were shorter than the others and had a semi EUREKA! But just been googling that and turns out it's meant to be like it. As in this thread:

https://forums.evga.com/GTX-690-Missing-half-part-of-gold-pinwarranty-voided-m1932991.aspx

Cheers

 

If you leave the RAM out and hook up a monitor will it show the POST? again with the bare minimum connected. Need to know the mobo model - but generic 3 long beeps is RAM issue, which with none installed is what we expect. If you can plug up a monitor without RAM and see the POST screen, then it is pointing to RAM.
Still a bad power supply could act up in various ways.

 

However, it would seem unlikely that all four RAM sticks would go out at once. Perhaps inserting the malfunctioning EMU has fried a bit of circuitry somewhere.
Any chance you dislodged something when inserting the EMU? Did the MB bend a bit too much?
It doesn't sound like it's the GPU. You get nothing even when it's disconnected.
The SATA cables shouldn't need disconnecting.
It could be interesting to put in a USB stick with no Windows on it and see what happens. If you have the PC set to look first for an operating system on a USB, you might get an error message on the screen.

 

BTW, it seems to me that if, when there is no RAM, the PC detects that and tells you, then when there IS RAM, the PC doesn't tell you anything, then it's found the RAM and it's OK. It then goes on to other things. But something else is wrong or bad, so it doesn't manage to do any more. The beeps seem to say that the CPU is working. So maybe it is the GPU, but its failure would probably need to be linked to your having plugged in the EMU, which might have fried the GPU, as one possibility. Do you have alternative slots where you can try the GPU? I assume there's no integrated graphics.

 

An update... Some bright spark pointed out that with another PC I could try the GPU in that. No idea why I didn't figure that out for myself. So I've just gone and done that and lo and behold it worked. So the GPU is off the hook I think.

So all fingers starting to point to the motherboard now? I'm definitely going to give the PC a strip down and clean up and see if something has come loose, unseated, or if a fluff ball of dust is causing havoc... But now know it ain't the GPU, is unlikely to be RAM ('I've tried different sticks, and get no bleeps with RAM installed), and is unlikely to be the PSU as I tried the one from the other system and got the same result. That being said, the borrowed PSU is only 250W (the existing is 430W). But seeing as I tried the PC with only the bare amount of stuff connected I didn't think that would matter. Please correct me if I'm wrong though!

Thanks for all the help. I'll'get stripping

To answer remaining unanswered questions....:

Have not had the chance to check but will ASAP.

Mobo is Intel DP35DP. I checked the beep list and indeed 3 beeps of equal length is RAM for the mobo.

No I don't think so, I was pretty careful. But you never know. And maybe the isopropyl or brush caused damage when i cleaned the slot.

I can try that, but do you mean an empty one or one with data on it? That being said, I'm not sure if this board is capable of reading from USB. Seem to remember that being an issue when I built it.

No, only the one large PCI-E slot. There's some of those small PCI-E slows (can't remember what they are - X1 is it?) and some standard PCI slots but none of that is compatible is it? Mind you, having the GPU work in the other machine negates this now anyway perhaps? And yes, there's no integrated graphics unfortunately, which is a shame as it would have made life a lot easier!!!

Thanks a million

 

I had assumed the other PC you had was in bits and wouldn't operate. Since it worked, does it have compatible RAM in it? I suspect not.
Any USB will do, even to an external HDD, as long as it doesn't have an operating systm on it. If it does, try it anyway and see if it boots.
I'm not sure if a lower-powered PSU would be unworkable, but I like your thinking.
Careful not to short circuit anything in there with static electricity. Maybe did that already?
BTW, it may pay to reset the CMOS and see if that helps.
Also, retry with all RAM sticks in, just in case the slot you think is the primary is not the one the PC thinks is the primary, and it's fixed itself while you've been doing all the testing. Ya never know!

 

Some major updates and breakthrough! But first to answer some of your questions...

Tried that, and no, nothing. Just the three beeps on account of no RAM being present.

It's always possible. I usually use a wrist band thing but in all honesty was being lazy and felt I could put the card in easily and safely. Plus there's no carpet and I wear crocs!

I've checked and double checked which is the primary and which one must be populated for the PC to boot. So no issues there.

This is where the fun begins, and more on that below. In the first instance though I did check compatibility and it ticked most the boxes. Couldn't find out if it was SPD though, and it wasn't specifically mentioned here:

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www...000006525/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html



Onto my update/breakthrough.... I'm just not sure how it's happened and it's left me completely puzzled. With the spare PC to play with, I started swapping components between that and the broken PC.

Order of events...

- I put two sticks of RAM from the broken PC into the spare PC. There's no OS on that, but during boot and in BIOS it showed 4096MB so if nothing else I knew it was registering it.

- I did the same with the other two sticks of RAM from the broken PC. Same result.

- I wasted two hours trying to put an old copy of XP on the spare PC just so that I could test the RAM further, but I couldn't get it installed. Grrr

- Based on the suggestion above, I tried the broken PC with the GPU back in, but no RAM. Just to see if I could get to BIOS. I got the 3 beeps but nothing else. No graphics and monitors stayed off.

- Seeing as the RAM slots were empty, I thought what the heck and stuck the RAM from the spare PC into the broken one, even though I couldn't confirm 100% it would be compatible. It worked! The screen came on and I had graphics. Unbelievable and very surprised to see that screen come on.

- I removed that "spare" RAM and stuck in two of the RAM modules that belong in that PC. They worked as well. Graphics/screen came on.

- I removed those sticks and put in the other two. They worked as well.

So I'll be damned. It goes totally against the grain of every test and trial I've done to date. But hey, things are looking up for now.

I guess the finger is pointing towards either the RAM or the motherboard. Way back in the first post, I said:

Could it be that the RAM is causing an intermittent fault? But if so, would that prevent the graphics from loading / the screens from coming on? Based on the marathon of posts and scenarios above, if my PC continues to work what tests can anyone recommend to help determine what the problem is?

Sorry for the long post!

Cheers

 

Awesome result.
Like I said, ya never know!
I don't think it could be the RAM. It should give you the beeps if the RAM is faulty at any boot time. I sometimes don't properly seat a RAM stick, and it goes nuts ('nuts' = beeps a few times). You could try that.
I don't know what tests you can do, but one thing you can check, if not already done, is that all the cables and wires are well connected. It may be that you bumped or moved one when installing the EMU card, or even a slight bending of the MB might have caused an issue. You can have solder joints that go south, as well, perhaps intermittently. I don't think there's a way to check that.
There could also be a broken wire. That would be hard to trace.
Or, as you have said, maybe it just needs a clean. But you can't tell, now that it's working!
BTW, did you try the HDD from the broken PC in the spare PC (rather than trying to install XP)?
Are you game to try the EMU card again?

 

No I didn't, simply because I wasn't sure what was on it. I think there's a Linux OS on there. But when I was booting it, it would scroll through endless amounts of text and then get stuck. I know nothing about Linux. But because I was running all tests on the broken PC without a HDD attached - just to see if I could get to BIOS and have the monitors turn on - I presumed adding another HDD wouldn't have brought anything to the table. With no HDD attached I should still get to BIOS if all's well?? Or have I missed something?

Yes, but not for the foreseeable. I'm going to give the computer strip down and clean and run some tests etc. Once I'm done on all that, if it's working as it should and all systems go, then I'll re-introduce the EMU as a last step. Not holding out much hope for it working though as it wasn't before. But it colud have been dust/dirt, you never know.

I hear what you're saying, but it certainly seemed the RAM was causing the issue I had a few months back (as described above), albeit the other two sticks. Now that I have the screens working, I see no harm in running Memtest so I'm doing that this morning. It's been an age since I last used it, so I'm reading up but if anyone knows the following that would be really useful:

- Does it matter what version I use? I've got an old disc (and I mean over a decade old) which is what I'm using now. Should I create a new one? Has a lot changed?
- Does it needs setting up or is it ok to run at default settings?

I'll get reading in the meantime

Many thanks

 

re: your first response about the HDD, I was actually asking whether you had tried the HDD out of the broken PC - the one you're trying to fix - in the old PC you're using for parts. And first remove the HDD that's in that old PC. I think there might have been a misunderstanding there.
I can't see that it would matter which Memtest you tried. If it's not right, it won't run. Try the defaults. I can't see that it would do any harm. Note: I have used it, but I'm no expert.
I see what you're saying about the RAM, but it would at least run back then. And it may be that playing with the RAM fixed some unrelated issue - like a poor connection. This seems to be a different issue somehow connected to EMU installation. Still, it could be the RAM, and maybe Memtest will tell you something. I wish you well in your search.

 

Thank you very much @GCWesq - I'll keep the thread updated with my findings

You're right, I misunderstood you, sorry about that. Yes I did try the HDD from the broken PC in the spare PC. It would fully load Windows, I think/guess because it detected the hardware was different. Can't remember exactly what happened or what it said. But it go so far into booting Windows and then said it couldn't go any further "because something had changed blah blah blah"

Memtest on pass 3. No errors yet. I'll keep it running for at least 7 passes. I've only got two sticks installed, so I'll keep the other two out and test them separately in the future.

Thanks again, you've been a great help

 

Almost has to be dirty connections in the ram sockets. I use DeoxIT D5 by caig. https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/
Dont buy it there, do a search on amazon its cheaper. But that links tells you about it. I spray it on a toothbrush and work in it with it. works great on older volume knobs and the like when they get scratchy as well.