Could it be possible that my 2 month old graphic card is broken?

Hey guys,

(This post may be lengthy but if you think you can help for the love of god please keep reading.)

My PC is an AMD 64-bit Athlon 3700+, with a 600W fan and 2GB of Kingston DDR 400mHz RAM.

About 2 months ago I ungraded by ATI Radeon 9800+ PRO 128MB card to a Nvidia GeForce 4, 7600 4xAGP 256MB card.

When I got the card it ran perfectly, and I've only started experiencing a deterioration in it's performance in the last few weeks; more specifically, the last two days.

It started as this error:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/430/errorer8.jpg

This error would occur and close my Medieval 2 randomly last week; It has run fine for a few months since getting my card. This error would appear in the most non-graphical places such as on the campaign map or diplomacy window.

In an attempt to fix this, I reinstalled DirectX and my Nvidia drivers to their latest versions.

Since then, whenever I load Windows Media Player, my PC slows down entirely, flicks my monitor off and on and I need to restart.

When I load QuickTime it slows down the PC and takes ages for the whole window to construct itself.

When I load VLC Media Player, my PC restarts itself.

World of Warcraft usually runs at an FPS of 30 in a capital city (Ogrimmar to be specific) and was working fine on Sunday 15th April, however since Monday night it has been running at an FPS of 9 in the same area.

I've tried re-installing different gfx drivers from both the CD that came with the card, and the drivers listed on the website, however these have not helped. (Infact I believe since doing this is the cause of WoW's low FPS)

However​

Facing a possible reformat it dawned upon me that perhaps this issue was being caused by a deterioration of the hardware itself, i.e. the physical Graphics Card within my PC.

My brother, a capable person in terms of PC tech support, is currently at Uni and so not on hand to lend assistance, however he suggested on MSN to pull out the card, blow it clean and replace it firmly, and see if this helps.

Before I did this however, I realised I still have my old card, and so uninstalling the Nvidia drivers, I took the card out of my PC and replaced it with my old Radeon, loaded up, installed my drivers and 'Lo: Quicktime, Windows Media Player and VLC all worked perfectly. WoW was still experiencing low FPS (11-14 to be exact which is higher than the low FPS experienced on my 'newer' and possibly broken card!) However I put this down to not having optimised my settings since the removal of the old card.

So, wiping out the possibility of spyware, viruses and worms from my mind I re-inserted the GeForce and reinstalled the drivers. Only to my sadness, witness that the same problems were occuring.

What is happening here, and how can this sudden death of performance from my 2-month old brand-new graphics card be fixed?

Thanks!

- Heskey

 

When you uninstalled any previous graphics drivers , did you go to the Device Manager console, and uninstall any card driver, under display adaptors ?- before fitting new card (or, even the old card)
If not this could cause problems.

 

Try updating your VLC, there have been several lately, but it's not automatic.

Studio T

 

possibly overheating?

 

600 watt fan?
I agree with the above, check for overheating.

 

Yeah- could be the new card is overheating, or the fan has taken a dump or a partial dump, resulting in overheating. Or- the new card itself has taken a dump. In either case, the new card should have a minimum 1 year warranty on it, and if you kept the receipt, you should be able to get a free replacement. Be patient tho', warranty replacements can take up to a month or more if you bought the card online; otherwise, take it back to where you bought it and get a new one. You say the card worked fine for awhile, then went into the dumper.... don't reformat and reload, it's not needed and it'll just waste time and you'll have to reload all 47 WoW CD's and do the 112 hours worth of update and patch downloads, and no-one wants to that more than needed...

hopperdave2000

PS- I think your 600w 'fan' is actually a power supply LOL !!!

 

Whoops! Sorry fellas I did mean 600W PSU!

So the theory so far goes that either the new card is over-heating, or the fan itself is failing, thus causing over-heating.

The fan itself is connected to the Processor isn't it? Or is that just the fan for the processor itself?

What's the best program to use to check for overheating, that doesn't require a general knowledge about how to use it?

I've never had to check temperatures before you see.

Oh, it might also be helpful to note that for a month or so now, when my monitor goes on standby, or the PC is shutdown - When I load it back up the screen is wavey in little bands horizontally that distort the display sort of; Left-diagonally, central, right-diagonally and back and forth for about 5 minutes (getting less and less as time goes on.) before resuming normality.

I posted for tech support on another website and one reply has made mention of the northbridge possibly beginning to fail? This worried me as I only found out what a northbridge was the night before, and if it's attached to my mobo, my mobo is pretty much brand new (only 1 year old) and was bought in conjunction, to fit my processor (AMD) which I bought in January 06.

What do we reckon? And how can I check these PC temperatures?

----------

I've just checked my e-mail as I outlined the problem to the company I bought the card off last night.

They've replied and given me an RMA - From what I read I think they want me to package my card back and send it back, and they gave me the address (my dad's shop) where my 'new product' would be delivered to and asked for confirmation.

That same brother of mine that I mentioned earlier thinks I should return the card, and take the new one. He believes overheating may be an issue, but as a result of the card itself being faulty. Though he recommends seeing about getting more fans put in my PC (Which is always a good thing, really.)

Recommendations?

 

Everest Home is a good program I have always used. I am not sure if they still offer a free home download, but there are old copies of it laying around. Depending on your video card drivers there may be a video card temp meter in your advanced graphic settings.

 

Well, after testing my old graphics card on:

WoW
CSS
Hidden : Source
LOTR : Battle for Middle-earth
BF2142
WMP / QT / VLC

I can safely assume that the self-demolishing performance of my PC with the GeForce in was a result of the card being faulty.

It's boxed up and ready to be sent back, with a replacement on the way.
In the meanwhile, what can you recommend as far as installing more fans in concerned.

 

Using Everest I get CPU temp recordings with 30 degrees celcius (almost room temp) when PC is doing nothing, and 35 when on WoW.

WoW isn't performing as well as I seem to remember it doing last year on the ATI, so it's still leaving me with doubts that the problem could be with the PC and not that GeForce :S

 

Everst is good, but don't rely on exact findings, after checking,
If you restart, go into the BIOS on startup, you can check it against the system
temperatures in the BIOS.
Personally, I would not think your temperatures excessive, others might disagree, - but I feel the temperatures are reasonable, and should not cause your graphics problem.
What could cause a problem is if you have a front fan fitted, with no filter , as the front fan can blow dust and fluff to the underside of the graphics card.

 

I don't believe I have a front fan fitted (Assume that'd be a hunky thing on the circular grid at the back? Which... contradicts the name.)

Anyway, I'm doubtful as towards my ATI's performance on WoW as I said - Not sure if it used to be like this, so I've downloaded an older Nvidia driver from here, and also got 3D mark again.

Gonna test both cards against each other, and run Everest again with my GeForce in.

I remember my PC scored like 12k or something before x-mas with the ATI, so I've got a good frame of reference at least - If my memory isn't failing me.

I am ultimately hoping the GeForce is just a faulty product, because I'm coming to the end of my final year at sixth form and have exams in about 6 weeks time.

If my PC bottoms out, I'll have no way to get work done, neither will I have an outlet for entertainment (When you live in a valley there's only so often something's worth going outside for!)

----

First attempt at running 3D Mark on my ATI (It's worked in the past.)

Boots up the screen 'Test 1 - Return to Proxycon' - Black screen as if loading, 1 min later, nothing.

Alt + Ctrl + Delete, '3D Mark Not Responding'

Mmmh... Trying again.

2nd Attempt: Loads up Return to Proxycon, screen goes blank, 'unexpected error and must be shut down' error.

3rd Attempt: Apparently loaded but shows nothing after initial black screen (Same as 1st attempt)

I'm beginning to become concerned that the problem is with my PC? :S

 

Aha, I don't think we need to worry yet, a tip of the day says 'The default resolution is 1280x1024' (My monitor only supports 1024x768 unless it's windowed!)

So that explains the blackness.

I'm trying to find the same 3D mark version I had in the past, may have been 5, I'll be back! Believe it's 03 so I'm getting that - I recognise the screenshots of the WW2 dog fight test.

 

Errrm, right.

I think I have a problem over my head here.

I believe it is 3DMark03 that I used before x-mas on a 1024x768 resolution that got me the results in the 12000's.

I've got the free version of 03 and it only allows 800x600 resolution. Aaaaaand the result was only 4000....

(Using my old ATI card)

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/6627/helplz4.jpg

I think it may be over my head and I'm considering a reformat, and shipping the PC off to a repair shop with my GeForce in (Ignoring the RMA) and let them deal with it.

I'm beginning to get quite frustrated

 

DON'T FRET, YET.
I would start by emptying cache in explorer, and on Windows, which is probably quite full - this can mean slower computing.

 

To empty cache in explorer, go to tools, and clear all history, and saved web url's.

 

In Windows
Go - right click My Computer, click properties, click advanced, visual effects- settings - performance options, click adjust for best performance. Then while there click advanced tab,-processor scheduling, click programs- Then virtual memory -click change, click no paging file- click o.k.
Then shut down, and restart.
When restarted go back to virtual memory. , set virtual memory change to one and a half times the installed ram- click o.k

 

I forgot while in tools, and Internet Explorer, to say delete temporary files from Internet explorer.
Also to shut down and restart Explorer (Internet Explorer) for changes to take effect.
When you restart Explorer first time connection might be a little slow on the net, but then it should be better, second time you go on the net.

 

Of course, if this does not help, you could use system restore to go back to 2 or 3 days before the problem arose, with the new graphics card in, and see if it still works as it did then.

 

The current plan of action is this:

Tomorrow night I get back from college and preform a system restore, risky given it's deleted contents of my files, and a friends files in the past.

If that doesn't work, I'll do a reformat.

If THAT doesn't fix the issue (As it does seem to be worm / software based now) then I'll probably IGNORE the RMA, put the GeForce in the PC and box the PC off to tech support.

However I'm concerned they'll go "Well, it loads. You can do work, access the internet - Sorry but it's working fine £60 please" when it bloody well isn't.

 

im gonna have to say that your card is crapping out on you. it would explain the continually lowering scores, the crashing, the errors....just RMA it. if it still doesnt work with the new card then we can assume its not the card.

 

The lower than usual performance in 3DMark was on my ATI card, which is why I don't think it's the GeForce anymore.

I'm gonna try a new driver with the GeForce now, if that doesn't help I'm going to do a system restore, if tha doesn't help I'll reformat, and if that doesn't help, then it's a hardware issue relating to graphics application, but not the card(s) themselves, and I'll have to turf the PC over to some techies.

 

Let us know what you did, and the results, as it can help others.

 

Well, I performed a system restore back to the 28th feb (a week after getting my card) and loading WMP was fine, it didn't crash my PC, a good sign.

I couldn't live with the messed up configs caused by a system restore though so I performed the reformat.

Stressful evening doing that, but right now I'm installing everything and making my PC back to how it was, so I can test some stuff in the morning.

Pray whatever it was has gone with the reformat

 

At least you will know, - nothing worse than getting another card, and problem is still there.

 

Well everything seems to be running fine so far - I'll need to get some more play testing out of WoW later, but in the hour I played in Outland it was running satisfactory.

Medieval 2 is working again (Hasn't shown that error yet, and the campaign map isn't jerky) and 2142 seems to be running fine. All media players work, so definately a good sign

 

Okay shit it's doing the Medieval 2 error again:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/430/errorer8.jpg

(Was on recommended graphics - Lower than I used to have them set as a few weeks ago when it worked without error)

After I'm forced to close Medieval 2 : Total War I can't play any other games until I restart my PC due to the same error that says 'make sure hardware acceleration is on and directX 9.0c is installed and all video drivers are up to date'.

Windows Media Player still works, and WoW seems to still be working; however Medieval 2 was experiencing this error for a week before my WoW and WMP stopped functioning.

Bugger. What can I do?

 

I'm hoping that the problem is now confined to Me2 and the other issues (WMP crashing CP, WoW dumping) were unrelated software issues that have been corrected by my reformat.

I've taken off the side of my PC and both my processor and GFX card fan seem to be spinning fine.

I'm gonna unplug it, hoover it and get a cotton bud on the fans to clean it out, then try Medieval 2 with the side off.

 

I'd put the side back on before playing a game. Cases are air tight and the fans are typically set up for air flow. Taking the side off can actually increase your temps. If you're going to attempt 3D gaming with the side case off make sure to blow a house fan or similar into the case.

 

Okay well the fans seem to be spinning fine, I'll just clean out my PC, put the side on and try Medieval again - I doubt it'll help, but I'm really clueless. The error points to a hardware issue. However the hardware seems to be operating fine elsewhere. :S

Is it safe to shove a hoover nozzle in there and cotton bud the fans?

 

Apparently others have similar problems with the game and graphics, and I was led to a patch site, perhaps the game needs a patch, although I expect you have them all.

Wow
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/


'Medieval II: Total War' - v1.1 Patches
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/583

 

One other thing, is your motherboard agp set to 4x ?, as you say the card is 4x, agp.
What motherboard are you using.
What ampage have you got on the 12v rail from the psu - From what I can see it needs good amps, - some psu's might not have it, even a 600w - can you test/substitute the psu?

 

Not sure.

Gigabyte K8 Triton GA-K8NSC-939 Motherboard Amd 64bit I believe

Not sure, and I can't substitute the PSU unfortunately.

Now I've just spent an hour and more cleaning the PC using cotton buds on the fans (2 in the PSU), the Processor and the graphics card (Which was mostly clean.)

I also got the thin nozzle of the hoover and carefully snaked it around inside to pick up any dust - Also put it to the fans to suck up any dust I'd missed.

PC is making an odd noise now, like the crunch when it's loading something, but it sounds higher pitched, and a bit hollow. Just gonna turn off and check the fans are spinning okay.

Well the fans are okay, I switched it on, it got to the login screen and then the power just cut. It's on and working now, but a bit concerned about this noise.

Edit: I don't think the noise is anything to worry about, it's not on all the time like it was before, just every now and then like buffering the PC, sounds normal now.

I'm too bloody scared to try M2 now because this PC is beginning to become more trouble than it's worth

 

So, the fans have been cleaned and I've done what I can with the hoover, just tried Medieval 2 again, played a few battles and a few turns; crashed whilst managing a town.

It crashes on the most UN-graphiced points :S

Oh, I forgot to mention - Of course my games are up to date

 

im still not getting why u dont just RMA it...you said that its giving you worse performance than your old card yet you're still using it...? doesnt make sense to me, i think that by the time you run out of options to try and fix the software (if thats even the problem) you could have a new card to try out

 

I have reformatted and since then my card is working fine (Thus presumably better than my old card) except for this M2 error.

I could RMA it, that'd illiminate any possibility that it is the gfx card (even though wow works fine).

 

It will probably be worth RMA-ing the video card, BUT
At gigabytes site, the realtech audio has caused problems with gaming
It has caused various computing problems, so its worth a look here - Have you the latest realtech driver- I know its a big file, and sometimes I leave it til last, but it ever increasingly becoming a necessity
See this faq
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/...QID=384&ProductID=1881&ClassValue=Motherboard

 

Your motherboard supports 8x/4x agp - agp voltage not more than 1.5 volts .
Could be worth checking the voltage setting, too, in the Bios -
It is always difficult to find the voltage of video cards, but, hopefully someone will come back and tell us that your card is 1.5v.

 

I have the latest of every driver, as it was only last night I reformatted.

If you can tell me how to check the AGP / voltage thing I will, but this is the current plan of action:

I am at a loss as towards why M2 is giving me this error, and I doubt it's the gfx card because WoW works fine - However, I have a standing RMA order and I'm going to put my ATI back in on Monday night, and send the GeForce back on Tuesday morning for a replacement just to get rid of any possibility that it was the card (Unless I start experiencing issues whilst using the ATI, I expect this thread will become dead for a week or two, however I'll revive it with anything necessary so please keep tabs, or even take my MSN or ICQ number.)

(Oddly enough my FIREFOX.EXE has 'performed and illegal operation' twice whilst posting here tonight)

Using my ATI I'll be able to see if M2 still gives me these errors. Just a bit bummed I'm gonna have to get used to it again for a week or so whilst waiting for the RMA to complete

 

Well I've actually just put the ATI in now just to pre-emptively test it, and in M2 the loading bars were blocking, the background video was jerky and the camera movement on the campaign map was VERY jerky. Not sure what's going on there (Uinstalled the Nvidia card as well as drivers before putting ATI in.)

I'm gonna unplug and put in the Nvidia again, focus on problems with that, and pray my PC doesn't go to pot now that the ATI doesn't seem to be working right.

 

I went onto M2 with the Nvidia (It's working fine and temp has been in the green zone of 50-59 all afternoon whilst playing both that and WoW) and turned all settings to low. I got to like turn 37 just charging through france with an army, auto resolving and ending turns without the error.

I've thrown my settings back up to recommended now except campaign shadows are off (It seems like the only setting that really could affect the graphic application on the campaign map (That being where the error has occured all but 1 time.)

I'm gonna go load it up again, and try a campaign properly - The error has occured in turns 1-3 previously. I'll be back with my findings,

 

Okay, it was running fine with campaign shadows off, but was a little jerky so I decided to reinstall. Howeeeeeever WMP now crashes my PC again, and VLC audio works, but visuals don't and PC craps out until I close it.

WoW seems to still be working, but I predict within a few hours, that too will repeat the process of last week and go down the crapper.

So the problem seems to be connected with M2 (In that if I never had M2 installed, the rest probably wouldn't follow through), yet M2 used to work like a month ago with the same card.

I have some options:

1.) RMA the card still
2.) Leave the PC in it's current crapped up condition and hand it to a local PC repair place (Though as I said, reformatting seemed to stop the problem, until M2 started crapping out.)
3.) Reformat again and forget ever playing Medieval 2, even though besides WoW it's like, the only game I wanna play

Just also confused why M2 crapped out on the ATI, it played that fine from December-February.

I'm back about 6 days now as the whole process has looped, and I'm thinking the problem is either with Medieval 2 (As I say, odd because it used to work.) or something hardware related, but possibly not the graphics card.

--------------

Okay I think I'm gonna do this:

Re-transfer everything onto my mum's external HDD again (Got a download folder now so I have all the programs and drivers already)

Put in my ATI

Reformat the PC WITHOUT installing Medieval 2

Send the GeForce back for a replacement, and put it in when I get it, THEN install Medieval 2, and if it starts crapping up then, then take it to tech support.

 

If you have an external spare hard drive, and installing as you suggest eliminates the problem, then it would point to your hard drive being faulty/ possibly on the way out.
If it performs the same, I would suggest running memtest , to see if ram has not developed a fault.

 

It is possible that the M2, AND WOW, drivers are using the same irq's- or, an update on one is causing a problem on the other, but I cannot find any reference to that , yet.- If I do I will let you know.
Continuous errors can point to ram , or, hard drive, even motherboard.
I had a hard drive, in a computer that I worked on , which showed no faults when chkdsk was run, and failed ,- started clicking, and caught me by surprise, but it should have made me consider it, when errors kept coming on the computer, and I should have run the hard disk utility for the hard drive, but thought I knew better. We all miss the simple answer, sometimes, but try all avenues to try to help you save spending, unless you have to.
With Ram, unless you test it with software,or, replacement it is difficult to spot a faulty one.
Substitution is usually the easiest way to find the culprit, if it is hardware.
With Ram, if you have two sticks, try it with one, then the other- , then back together if o.k.
With a psu - The same remedy.
Graphics cards - You have seen the difficulty.
With a motherboard, - more difficult - swollen capacitors , as Hopperdave, and Studiot, will tell you can be a sign.
Until you have exhausted the method, then, unfortunately - hands on help (friend, technicion ) - :cry

 

Well as I said, the error started developing again so here's what I've done:

Reformatted PC with the Nvidia in it, it's all up and running now and WoW is running fine, but I am NOt going to install M2 (for a few weeks anyway until my exams are over - could do without PC troubles).

I ASSUME that without M2 having left my shelf since reformat, my PC won't experience problems (as M2 did seem to be the start.)

And if it does, I know it's not Medieval 2 at fault

It just seems to be that media players are fine until I start tinkering around with Medieval 2 and my graphics cards. So, I'll do without it for now, and pick up the thread if any problems arise without M2 being installed.

 

If you have important exams coming up, that appears a wise decision.
If you find more problems, interupting your studies,you could try posting in the driver forum, as someone more experienced in that quarter, may come up with a solution, if the graphics card you are using is working o.k at the moment.