Another view on Iraq War

I recieved the attached today and read it with some interest. I thought I would share it..

 

Nice find and a great read.

 

Hum
If Kerry is elected I too might support his policies, if I knew what they were, on that day,

Well maybe I can't support him, I got enough to do without having to see what he is flip-flopped on each day

 

Only thing I can find fault with is describing Hitler & his regime as "Christian". They were adamantly anti-Christian, indeed, anti-religion. Other than that, he hits the nail on the head.

 

First of all the question is...is any religion truly evil? Is Islam evil? Are Christian fundamentalist evil? Its easy to brand someone who doesn’t agree with your perception of evil as evil. Look at it this way, your a Southern Baptist born and raised in the USA, what is your view on Islam? On who God is or who Jesus Christ was?

Now lets say you were born in Iraq or Iran. What is your view now?

It is all about what you learn from your parents and the community they/you belonged to...to discern who is evil and who is good.

The bigger question is who controls the community? Who controls the strings? Who controls the USA? The Vatican?. The CIA?



http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=54071

Illuminati Master Plan

By Henry Makow Ph.D.

As fighting resumes in the holy city of Najaf, more may hinge on the outcome than we realize.

In a provocative article, Joe Vialls reveals that Iran and Saddam's Iraq have had a covert military alliance and began joint preparations for this war after the Gulf War ended in 1991.

Iran already has nuclear capability and recently threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" if Israel attacked its nuclear facilities. Vialls says the cleric Al Sadr is tied to the Iranians.

"As we shall see, if Moqtada al-Sadr is killed or maimed, we will be into an altogether new and exceedingly lethal ball game," says Vialls. http://joevialls.altermedia.info/iraq/carrierstrike.html

As you know, a large part of the US fleet is out of port and probably near Iran. Many observers believe there will be a US attack on Iran after the US election, no matter who wins. Iran has a military alliance with Russia. http://freemasonrywatch.org/comrades.html

These events should be seen in the perspective of a letter written by Albert Pike, the Grand Commander of American Freemasonry in 1871 and published in 1925. The letter foresaw three world wars designed to bring about Illuminati world hegemony.

Each war planted the seeds of the next. For example, the Second World War was designed to ensure the destruction of Germany, the expansion of Communist Russia and the establishment of the State of Israel. It unfolded exactly as Pike described and set the stage for number three.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World," Pike wrote.

"Argentur" means "agent." The same term is used in another Illuminati document "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" which dates from the same period.

The key point here is these wars are contrived. They are caused by "agentur of the Illuminati" on both sides. These agents owe their first loyalty to the Illuminati not to their countries.

Their aim is to destroy their respective countries and profit from the carnage.

Pike continues: "The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other."

The rest of the world will be drawn in. "Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion..."

At this point they will be constrained to accept the Luciferian one-world government.

Iran is rumored to have missiles that could reach England. I suspect China is also being built up by the illuminati to attack and destroy the USA.
See "Elite Sets the Stage for World War Three" http://www.savethemales.ca/000154.html

Pike's complete letter and more background can be found on an excellent web site "Three World Wars.com" operated by Michael Haupt of Cambridge UK. http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm Readers who object that the terms Nazism and Zionism were not known in 1871 should remember that the Illuminati invented both these movements.

The Illuminati refers to a tightly organized network of family dynasties representing Anglo American and European aristocracy and Jewish finance joined by intermarriage, belief in the occult, and hatred of Christianity. Freemasonry is their instrument. They care nothing for their non-Illuminati brethren, Jewish or not. They will destroy billions as they create a neo feudal world characterized by superrich, soldiers and serfs.

"TAKING SIDES"

The Iraq war and a possible larger conflagration with Iran are a trap engineered by the Illuminati to destroy both the Moslem world and Israel, and possibly the U.S. Thus the real enemy is not Israel, America or Islam who are being manipulated. The real enemy is the Illuminati and their agents, bent on destroying and enslaving mankind.

For example, the Second World War was choreographed. Roosevelt, Stalin, Churchill and Hitler were all Illuminati. They were actually on the same side. Humanity ignorantly slaughtering itself was on the other side.

As Pike's letter indicates, the Nazis were intended to lose and the Communists to gain control of Eastern Europe. This is why the Nazis made so many stupid blunders on the Eastern Front and deliberately alienated the anti Communist Russians.

Similarly today, George Bush, John Kerry, Tony Blair, Ariel Sharon, Gerhard Schroeder are Freemasons. I am guessing but I expect Vladimir Putin and some significant Iranian leaders are also tied to the Illuminati. They may not be aware of the big picture but if they deviate, they will be assassinated like Israeli PM, Yitzhak Rabin who was also a Freemason.

Sadaam Hussein is rumoured to be a high-ranking Freemason with longstanding business ties to George H.W. Bush and the CIA. This would explain why Bush didn't remove him in 1991; and why there are reports he was secretly airlifted out of the country in the first days of the 2003 war. http://www.rense.com/general40/saw.htm

The current Iraq war was planned years in advance to discredit and mire the U.S. in a Vietnam-style war and set it and Israel up for confrontation with a nuclear-armed Iran backed by Russia and possibly China.

Osama Bin Laden is probably also Illuminati. See "Bush, Bin Laden Serve the Same Master" http://www.savethemales.ca/251102.html and "Osama bin London" http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2838bin-london.html

The whole Iranian Islamic Republic was put in place by the Illuminati. See Peter Goodgame's comprehensive report: "The Globalists and the Islamists."
http://www.redmoonrising.com/Ikhwan/Clash.htm

Thus while the majority of people on both sides may believe in their cause, and be willing to fight and die, history suggests war is always a hoax aimed at destroying the righteous on both sides, and establishing the power of the Illuminati in a one-world government.

“Out of these troubled times, our objective: a new world order can emerge," President George H. W. Bush told the U.N. on September 11th 1990. "Today, that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we have known.”

In 1992, George H.W. Bush told White House reporter Sarah McClendon: "If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched."

We cannot understand the world until we appreciate that most leaders are traitors and that mankind is victim of a diabolical conspiracy on an unspeakable scale. It's time we stopped taking sides and addressed the real enemy.

Henry Makow, Ph.D. is the inventor of the board game Scruples and author of "A Long Way to go for a Date." His past articles exposing feminism and the new world order are found at his web site www.savethemales.ca He welcomes comments at henryatsavethemales.ca

 

Even as a Christian, I recognize the God-given right of Freedom of Choice. God doesn't force us to believe in Him. Obviously, my belief is different than a Muslim's, but that doesn't mean that I want to force him to believe the way I do. (Yes, it's true that it's been done in the past in the name of Christianity, but that doesn't mean it was scripturally correct.)

I've come to terms with my faith on my own, and not just from what I was taught and how I was raised. If anything, I rejected a lot of what I was taught growing up, and chose a path that was quite different than what my parents had hoped for me. Similarly, I have different political views than the majority of the people in my community (literally that is, I live communally).

Not sure what to say about the article you posted. Sounded a little too conspiracy theory for my taste.

 

Well, I had heard that Hitler thought he was doing "God's work", but, as a tree is known by it's fruit, it's obvious he was not a Christian, nor a "good man" by any definition.

Since I believe there is a standard for Truth, and that Truth is not just in the "eye of the beholder", I believe there really is Right and Wrong, Black and White. This isn't just an opinion, it's a Law of Nature that we all adhere to, whether we want to or not. Someone may say, "We should just accept everyone for who they are, their religion isn't evil, and neither is ours". Well, that statement "should" implies that there is a Higher Law that is being appealed to. Tell me, why "should" I accept everyone? Why is that so much "Better" than believing that there is Right and Wrong? And if it is "Better", well, how did we arrive at that conclusion?

We all stop far too short of the end of the process. There really is "Good" and "Evil" and there really is a "God" and a "Devil".

The God I believe in is a God of Love, and Love dictates that we shouldn't kill and torture people just because they aren't of our belief. It also dictates that we don't stand by, idle, as our neighbors are getting invaded, but we take up arms and lend them a hand. That's why I also support our troops and actions in Iraq.

Boccemon, thanks for sharing that article, it was a good read, and I'm saving it on my hard drive!!

Eric

 

Rumormill dot com" is a good name for that site. Are there powerful people and groups scheming for a future that they'd prefer? Likely so... there have been all through history. Do all of these "rumormill" sites have the hard data to prove what's actually going on? No. Much of their stuff is easily DISprovable, and most of the rest is NOT proveable.

Is there absolute right and wrong? Opinions differ, but I think so. Even if you don't subscribe to my own personal beliefs, MOST religions don't believe in world conquest by violence, and they don't believe in killing all infidels. And not all Muslims subscribe to that either. But far too many do for me to be comfortable with them as a group. Their history is NOT one of peace, other than when controlled by outsiders. Individuals are another story of course.

 

A lot of people argue that this is turning into a war regarding Christianity and Islam....it isnt...but if it was who remembers their history lessons? When in the 12th century so called Christians in the name of the newly founded Roman Catholic Church ( like it or not thats where all christianity branched out from) went on their Crusades? Slaughtering previously peaceful people in the name of the Lord? Somehow these people have never forgiven christian society for that.

Like anyone else that is just an opinion but there are many other angles to the story. Living in Australia everyday our Prime Minister is losing his credibility with his voters over Iraq. Oh an Australia has the largest population of Iraqi's living outside of Iraq.

Like Vietnam this topic will create many heated arguments from the one eyed patriots to the peace loving hippy types. Unfortunately in my mind that means that terrorism in its true form is actually winning the battle as people on the "same side" argue with each other and cannot agree. If you are not united you dont win wars. Each to their own I say, and as this last comment will create a lot of heated comments...at what price freedom? an estimated 13,000 troops lost in Iraq already. I work for the Australian Army and have many many friends in uniform, not one are cowards or they wouldnt have stepped up to join, but many are dubious as to the reasoning behind going to Iraq. Unfortunately with the western world turning on itself, westerners that disagree with the conflict either as a whole country or as an individual become the subject of ridicule and hate themselves. Is that really freedom or someone elses version of it? Isnt that what Iraq is all about? being free to make your own choices?

 

I believe that we have taken on an enemy in which we exercised contempt before investigation. I will not argue the religious issues. To an islamic, Jewish, Catholic, Baptist, Hindu, ad infinitum, their God is just that...God. that point should not be argued. What concerns me is the fact that we went over there and assumed that these people wanted our way of life. they simply do not. They have lived the way they lived for thousands of years.

 

I truely believe that this isn't a religious war. I do not even believe that it should be discussed. To an Islamic, Hindu, Catholic, Baptist, jew, ad infinitum, their God is just that...God.

What concerns me is that after centuries of living the way they do, we Americans came along and told them we were going to "give" them freedom and a new way of life. We were very arrogant in this and practiced contempt before investigation.The truth is they simply do not want it. Human nature is to stay where you are comfortable, it may not be nice, but it is a known factor.

These people are zealots. I do not believe that we truely understand that concept. They will never give up. Mere life is meaningless to them. Kill twenty thousand and they will make twenty thousand more with ONE thought in mind...get rid of us. Why can't we believe that there is a huge portion of the world that despises us and the way we live and believe?

For one moment walk in their shoes. Overnight, our cities are being bombed, our leaders ruthlessly sought, armies are invading our borders. THINK. How would you react? Would you, like so many sheep, accept the thought that the way you live is wrong, your beliefs are wrong, and that this invading army will make things so much better? No, I think not. remember, they are zealots, deeply rooted in their belief that we are infidels, come to ruin and take away everything that they hold dear.

I hold as proof of this rejection the way that the general population reacts when a soldier is killed, or a vehicle is bombed. They rejoice in the street!! They are not soldiers, they are everyday Iraqi people.

I look for us to be in Iraq for a very long time. And zealots do not mind, they have lots of time and they will plot until the last one dies. It simply boggles the mind.

And yes, in this world of ours I can well imagine a larger conspiracy for power and control.
Peace people, Tate (crap...I wondered where the first part of my post went awhile ago...sorry about that!!)

 

In the final analysis, it's the same old human nature, with the same old faults and warts. The emphasis may be a little different nowadays (it was the Germans and Turks; then it was Germans and Japs; then the West Vs the Ruskies and the East; then Vietnamese "Commies"; now it’s the big bad Arabs and Muslims.

All I see (and I've been around a while, and involved directly in a few conflicts), is the same old territorialism; nationalism, arrogance; "you gotta think like us" mentalities; the same old our society/country/religion etc. is the best, and everyone should look up to us and be in the same kind of thinking (all countries are guilty of this), i.m.o. - it's a human nature thing, not so much a national thing.

Wether you're Christian, Muslim, Atheist; Agnostic, or whatever the problems - and consequently the answers are within ourselves.

As long as people view the problems as a country, race, religion, philosophy type etc. it's just going to be the same old "Ground Hog Day", with different theme flavours. It has been, since before antiquity, and will continue to be so, for the foreseeable future, if not for ever.

What about 'solutions' then? Well the good news is that there is, and the better news is that we can all make start and have an effect. The bad news s that it requires each individual to be honest with themselves and want to 'grow' (i.e. evolve) their own mentality, personality, and if you believe in such - your spirit (if you don't - insert "psychology' or whatever for "spirit").

Wether one is deeply pious, neutral or atheist, or just plain nothing, and whatever country, race or religion - lack thereof you are, the principles are the same.

"Care for yourself, this includes physical, mental, social and spiritual health. As long as it is not at the expense of others.

Care for your family and the families of others in a similar manner.

Care for the society round you.

Care for your nation.

Care for the world as a global society."

What does "care" mean? It's simply wishing the very best for self and others.

You don't need to be 'religious' to know that these are self-evident truths, and not just a good idea, but necessary for the survival of Mankind.


It's not easy, and many will seek to dominate and/or destroy us. But better to be making the effort, than not to be, I.M.H.O.

 

First, the Catholic church wasn't "newly founded" in the 12th Century, not by many centuries. Second, the crusade just before 1200 AD was the 3rd Crusade, not the first. Third, they were not "slaughtering previously peaceful people". You talk of history... here's a very good synopsis:

http://www.howardbloom.net/islam.htm

There are indeed many angles to the story, and disagreement about whether Iraq was worth invading. Personally, I think Syria would have been a better starting place than Iraq, but that's just me. There are many worthwhile candidates. A holding action in Indonesia and/or the Phillipines could have been argued s well, as those countries are under attack as we speak. Or helping the Southern Sudanese which are being slaughtered and starved be those "peace loving" Muslims in the north. Islam is on the move worldwide, and it's not peaceful, and it won't be resolved by understanding and embracing them.

Phantom is correct about what we can do personally to improve our world. But on a global scale, it's going to get worse before it gets better. If it ever does get better. Personally, I don't consider a global "peace" under Islam a better solution.

 

to hell with all this religous debating crap. There are some bad guys who don't like us and we don't like them. I for one don't care where you come from, who you are or if you worship a horde of garden gnomes as your gods. The point is simple. A group of people killed many Americans.. where they come from is mostly irrelevant as it could just as well have been another group of people from a vastly different religous sect. Our job is now to eliminate them; and by them, I mean all those who wish to harm us.

 

Well, doing your best for self, family, country, and world, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, isn't Rocket Science or Religion, it's just good sense.

Yes, there are situations where you'll need to fight like Hell in order to defend the said self, family and nation. Been there - done that.

But I've found the biggest and most important battle is with the self. And I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

I’ve seen the Hypocrisy of both organised and personal "Religion". But because there are a lot of bullcrappers around, that don't make it all B.S.

I'm not advocating any form of religion or spirituality. Just a little (un)common sense. Life is a journey to me - complete with all its twists and turns, rewards and cliffs. The important thing is not the destination, if there even was one in the first place, but the journey.

Call me anti-social if you like, but I refuse to be an active part of the mainstream sewer of society. Not to say I'm not prepared to contribute to it.

 

Yep, I'm right there with you.

Too true. Another example would be our country. It's full of many money grubbing greedy corrupt individuals, but that doesn't mean the essence of our country is greed and corruption.

Well, I know this Man who got very active in the sewers of society, and was condemned for it. I guess that's why I live where I live, couse there sure is alot of sewage in my city. And while I know I'm not going to change the world or make it "peaceful", as you said earlier, the battle starts with me, myself, and that's a lifetime of work to do all by itself.

 

You are very right. There is much hypocrisy. I think there are many who are part of the club called "Church" just so they have their "Fire Insurance". I find that a sad way to live. What's the point of this life if it's only a test to make sure you don't get cooked in the next one? That's no better a belief than the Hindus, who believe that you keep coming back again and again until you get it right. How hopeless can that be? Has anyone ever met a perfect person who has "gotten it right"? No. And we aren't going to "get it right". No matter how hard we try, we are going to have faults and failures.

I believe it's more about life NOW. As I said above, Fire Insurance for the next life doesn't mean diddly here and now, and here and now is where I live. It's here and now that I have to treat others kindly, thoughtfully, respectfully. It's here and now that I have to teach my children, love my wife, be a good worker. Those are the things that matter. Not giving money to a church, or attending mass every Sunday. Those things are nice, but that's not the everyday reallity that most of us live in.

Tim, don't through the baby out with the bathwater. You see the hypocrisy and nonesense in the Church, and in religion, and you see how things ought to be. I think folks like you who are disillusioned with religion have alot more on the ball than folks who mindlessly go to church group and never give a thought to how it should effect their daily life. What's the point of it if it's only once a week? I also don't want to be a part of that.
But our job is not to judge those folks either. Otherwise we're just as hypocritical as they are. Our job is to work on those areas of our own life that we know are flawed. Sometimes we are discouragingly aware of our own flaws, and we feel like throwing in the towel. Other times we are absolutely blind to how our actions come off. I rely on forgiveness from others a whole lot, otherwise I'd slit my own throat.

 

Understand this, it is my opinion and nothing more, I do not believe any country can "liberate" another country. Liberation, like revolution, must be done from within by either a majority of the citizens or at least a well armed minority that the majority will tolerate. We went into Iraq under false pretenses, there is no debating that. We then attempted to validate our presence and continued influence by stating the obvious about Saddam being a monster. Then when the world has not bought that completely we have tried to justify our presence by stating that we will bring a better system to that portion of the world. The last time the Iraqis heard that they were under the European's collective thumb and given "freedoms" that allowed massive exploitation of themselves and their resources. Can you blame them for not believing or supporting us in our endeavor? I can't. To the average Iraqi if you specify that we are there to guarantee their individual freedoms they start to look for that knife in the back that was so prevalent with the English, French and other European nations that took advantage of them for so long. Read up on the history of the area after the Ottoman Turks were finished with them. It is amazing that they have not built walls around the entire mid-east and refused to do business with any foreign nation.

Wraith

P.S. - If you know me you know I'll probably have more to say later

 

I just wish to clarify that the statement I made about the "newly formed' Roman Catholic Church was not cut and dry but approximately 1000 years is relatively new in the grand scheme of things as the church was formed approximately 800AD , also the comment about the Crusades was not cut and dry either, as I also know that the first crusade took place in the 11th century when in 1099 the Norman knight Tancred arrived to "protect" the Holy place of Jerusalem. This was after 3 years since leaving their respective countries. On that day the Moslem's surrendered to Tancred accepting his banner. The following morning Tancred's men entered the Mosque where all the Moslems had taken refuge and slaughtered every living Moslem sheltering there. There has never been a figure put on the number that died. Unfortunatly I dont think world peace under a completly US set of ideals is correct either. Man will continue to justify his existance to others by warring with his neighbours. As for Indonesia where was the US juggernaut in 1999 when East Timor had its 'democratic" elections and subsquent militia intervention? That too was a slaughter of innocent people.

This isnt a religious issue I just wished to point out that there are other ways of looking at things...not just from the perspective of the country you belong to.

Isnt that called genocide? Something the Allies fought against in WWII?

 

..no.. it could include an entire population but it could just as well be a small group of people too.

 

The genocide practiced by the Germans, if historians are to be believed, was not discovered until the close of the War. I am not familiar with any other genocide practiced in WWII, so how could we be fighting against it? I agree, kill them all, let Allah sort them out. IMHO, they are all our enemy. They have none of our best interest at heart.

 

Unfortunately more people die in the name of God then for any other reason !!! I don't like, "Organized Relgion ", seems to take advantage of the weak, and to make others feel as tho they are somehow, "Better" then others. Be good in your heart & soul, and for lack of a better description you can live by the rules of the 7 Sins & 10 Commandments, tho not all apply to all things in life & living, they are a good idea of how to be if yu have any questions, Most Life & Living is common sense actually, I don't any one who does not truly know right from wrong !
As to the War in Iraq, Go USA & ALL Soldiers, your in my heart & thoughts always, We support you 100%, the good people of Iraq are already coming around & accepting a better life! As much as I would like to see a MOAB go off at the haters in Najah,Fallujah,etc. I also know why we don't, we are not there to kill all Life but to free it from evil aka Saddam,OBL,etc. and to keep us all FREE !!!Ty Soldiers for all you do & are
The thing that scares me more then War or Terrorists, are the Kerry & Moore(Moore ons)supporters ) Take Care, MOAB

 

Actually, this century, far more people have died in the name of Communism than God... of ANY god.
http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/1999w39/msg00046.htm

 

(Darn 3 minute edit limit. LOL. I bumped the Enter key at the wrong time and submitted before I was done.)

God gets a lot of blame for Man's evils against Man, but most conflicts are due to Man's lust for power, greed, and hatred, regardless of what advertising they use. And the communist killings point out clearly that religion isn't necessary for attrocity. The worst atrocities have been by regimes that pay NO alliegance to any God, both Communist and Nazi. While religion HAS been the root cause of many conflicts, including the current Muslim radicals, overall, religions, with their emphasis on respect for life and living fairly, has been a mitigating factor in Man's inhumanity against Man. It sure hasn't been a cure, but the worst attrocities have happened where God has had no voice at all.

 

G.T. is actually completely correct, i.m.o. Let's get this straight - Organised State Religion is NOT the same as personal religious beliefs and spiritual growths.

There are bad "Christians" the same as there are crooked cops, corrupt Politicians, crooked Business men; and bad Geeks! *<<< GASP!>>>. Quoting History doesn't prove squat, except that humanity is full of faults and not perfect, which we already know. I could just as easy quote commissions into corruption of Police Forces, Politicians etc. to 'prove' my point.

Sure, doing the right thing may be 'common sense', but human nature proves that there is no such thing in reality. And whereas a very few may in fact obey the laws of humanity, the land and common decency, most - unless forced to, will not. We therefore require external sources of so-called 'conscience'.

Going to Church, praying etc. may not, and is not essential to be a Christian, but apart from laziness, lack of commitment and apathy I don't see why someone calling themselves a Christian wouldn't. In today’s day and age, you don't have to be roped into major state religions and control freaks to worship whatever you may choose to believe.

The trouble is, nowadays that many people like to say that they're a "Christian" so that they're covered just in case these 'religious' folk might be right, but they don't want to actually apply any effort to life.(Kinda like taking out insurance and then not wanting to pay the premiums) Guess they'll reap what they sew, then.

I've said it before, and I find myself having to repeat it again, that religion is just one of the many guises that people use in order to justify their actions. (Licence from "The will of God/Allah"; "We're doing this for your own good" I s a favourite of the Govt. nowadays )

Even if the sceptical and utilitarian are correct, and religious/spiritual beliefs are marly in the realms of the mind and poorly psychological, it is none the less real, with real positive consequences in terms of human behaviour and actions.