Discussion of other thread

I just read the thread about downloading TV programs in Networking.. that is closed now... so I figured it might be a topic to discuss here.
Why is downloading a TV program wrong?
Does that make Tivo or Windows Media Center, video ipods wrong?
What about VCRs? & loaning tapes?

There was a video out about Bittorrent in which this guy gives a lecture to the fact that bittorrent & the internet is shifting the way things are done. His case was about SciFi's Battlestar Galactica - it was shown on English TV before it hit America & because it was shared the word of mouth delivered SciFi the biggest hit they've had yet.
TV knows this is happening that is why they advertise via "pop-ups" during the shows.. they know commercials are cut out eventually.
With all this media technology somethings gotta give...

 

Why is downloading a TV program wrong?
--Because you did not pay to watch it, like everyone else. Also, for stations you may not pay for, they lose out on advertising revenue from the commercials you skipped. Its a grey area, to say the least.

Does that make Tivo or Windows Media Center, video ipods wrong?
Nope, because those things record what you already could have seen, through your television.

What about VCRs? & loaning tapes?
What about them? If you copy a VCR to VCR tape, thats illegal. If you loan it, so long as the person borrowing it doesn't make a copy, its not a problem.

 

My question is...why re-open a thread of the same subject in another forum that got closed in networking

 

My thoughts...

TV program sharing, like any other sort of sharing, is still piracy. The program is still someones property.
A company who makes a program, like say the BBC, pay for that program to be made. They then broadcast it on networks, and then eventually if the demand is their license it to be broadcast through other networks in other countries. They will later license DVDs to be made and sold possibly throughuot the world, all of which is creating a return on an initial investment.

By sharing/pirating these files you are sharing and pirating something that doesn't belong to you. That in itself is what piracy is. But more importantly, it damages the ability for the maker of the program to be able to distribute and license this program throughout the world.

Technologies like Tivo, and Sky+ allow someone to stream something off TV and save it to a local hard disk for viewing later. It is not sharing in the same sense. When you record something through Tivo/Sky+ you are not recording it from a p2p network, you are recording it through a licensed medium, e.g. the channel which has licensed the right to broadcast that program by paying someone for that right.

And believe it or not it was still copyright infringement to record a TV show too VHS and lend it to a friend, at least in the UK.

TV shows are still big business. Look at how much is paid for the big TV shows which come out of the US in other parts of the world - the p2p networking and piracy ultimately damage companies rights to distribute what they have paid to create.

Your arguement about Battlestar Galactica is interesting, as it reflects a shift in the way these mediums are being looked at by the TV companies. And I think to a certain extent TV, Movie, Music producers have themselves to blame for the fight against piracy - they have failed to capitalise on a mass distribution method which has lended itself very easily to piracy. It could, if properly managed, have lended itself equally well to legitimate file sharing if said producers had adapter earlier and addressed the issue properly.

But the bottom line remains. P2P sharing, distribution of files without the permission of those that hold the copyright, and any sort of piracy, is theft. This site does not condone piracy.

 

It's against licencing and therefore is illegal.

'Nuff said.

 

Just interested in stirring up a discussion and it doesn't really fit a "networking" issue.. so "off topic" it is...

See it worked...lol

See the meer mention of VCR had 'hollywood' shaking.. and did they close down?
I am not condoning p2p... VHS wasn't a p2p medium.. I just wanted another take on the subject...

 

Microsoft is probably one of the most pirated software companies. They aren't closing down anytime soon either.

Banks get robbed, they don't go out of business either.

However, thats not the point.
Stealing doesn't have to ruin someone or a company to be considered illegal.

 

http://www.mindjack.com/feature/piracy051305.html

 

Exactly

If a thread is closed, it's closed. If it was simply in the wrong forum for debate, the administrator would move it, not close it IMHO.

I vote we open a word association thread now *grins at Kodo*

 

You want discussion, but you are stuck on a TV miniseries...

Meh.

Point remains. Its illegal, and until then, this board will not condone or allow it, whether we discuss the rights and wrongs or not.

That goes globally, whether a country allows it or not. This is a US based site, and it adheres to United States law.

 

Grins > Smile

I've just started one.

 

I saw an interesting little discussion yesterday with Steve Forbes. They were talking about President Bush meeting with China to discuss the gas/oil situation and Forbes said if they really want to talk about something China can do, it's stopping the piracy of patented products from the U.S.

Steve

 

LOL....bad Mcadam, bad.

*wanders off singing "Bad Boy, Bad Boy, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when Kodo comes for you, Bad Boy Bad Boy" *

 

LOL

We had a trainer from our site go to India to train the India MS techs initially. He said that you could buy ANYTHING software wise for almost nothing. Constantly, there were police raids on the places, and a week later, they were back in business, pirating away

 

That doesn't surprise me, a losing battle I guess.

Steve

 

Yes it is. Unless they make technology that blows off your hand when you burn pirated software to a CD.

Ok,maybe thats extreme. Just the pinky then

 

They could have a talking cow on the EULA.

Steve

 

The other thread was "how to" this is a general discussion....
I consider "off topic" to be an open forum for discussion..

 

Oh it is open, subject to moderation of course. So if an admin or moderator besides me objects to it, it will be closed.

So, open discussion, is relative.

 

I am not stuck on a miniseries.. I gave an example...
There is a show in the UK called the IT crowd.. never aired in the states best I can tell yet how do I hear about it on all kinds of tech sites and places like lockergnome or slashdot...
I am not trying to change the rules of the board... just talk.. thought..

 

It isn’t in some circumstances and I give some examples. If however, you are downloading not from the broadcaster then this could be questionable depending on whether the broadcaster has granted these rights or not.

What would you call a TV programme, one that you receive only through a terrestrial aerial? Is a web enabled broadcast a TV programme? Is a cable received programme a TV programme?

For example, the BBC allow you to download their news programmes that they also broadcast on a terrestrial signal. All you need is a media player - see link at top right: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/default.stm

Even more, the BBC are themselves planning downloadable TV programmes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4187036.stm

Also Disney are allowing you to view their shows on-line as well: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4897742.stm

If, however, you are using your PC to receive terrestrial signals then in the UK (at least) you need a TV license to view these programmes: http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp#link1

Also, record companies allow you download music: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4925696.stm

Apple appear to be enabling the iPod to receive TV programmes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4337692.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4341280.stm

The general statement that “downloading TV programmes is wrong”, is incorrect since it is allowed and enabled by some broadcasters.

No. If you are using your PC as a TV then as above you need a license in the UK. You can record these using a Windows Media Centre PC in exactly the same way as recording a terrestrial signal onto a VCR.

VCRs are becoming obsolescent and being replaced by DVDs (even the newer blue ray technology) and harddrives. However, technology is changing so fast that different recording media and hence different protection schemes are continually evolving.

Public libraries and video rental stores both do this.

 

Everythings made in freakin china its about time,err thats all I wanted to say oh yeh dont pirate stuff kids

 

As far as requiring a licence in the UK for television, how do they police it?

What's to stop someone from putting up an aerial for free to air?

And is radio free, or do you need a licence for that as well?


Australia used to have a licencing system for TV years ago before my time, so I'm unsure of how it works.

 

Radio requires no licence, TV does and many a student get done for it each year because they think they can get away without a licence.

 

OK, but how do they police it?

Is it just a simple matter of putting up an aerial and tuning in?

I'm curious.

 

It always used to be that a student away from their parents' home while studying was still covered by their parents' TV license. Is this no longer the case? How the heck do they expect a student to afford all that??

 

Its simple,they stick some guys in a van with detection equipment outside any house that isnt registered with a TV licence,if its found your watching TV they take away your TV and fine you

yeh you can just buy a tv for £30 and watch TV,you only need a small aerial and signal booster,you dont even need an exterior aerial

 

TV licenses are policed by detection or at point of purchase of a TV enabled device. Shopkeepers will notify the license authority that you have purchased a TV enabled device then it is up to the license authority to determine if you have a valid license.

For students, they too will need a license away from home: http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/students.jsp

 

Wow! Total bummer...it never used to be that way. So now students have no grants, ridiculous loans and the commerical side of life stings them even more while they are away from home studying. That sucks.

 

Yes it does suck. TV licencing dudes are the #1 most unwelcome guests at most halls I've seen.

The only way you can get money, it seems, is to do Maths or to get bought - uhh, "sponsored" - by a big company. Otherwise you leave university with 15k's worth of debt. Great....

 

I only recently found out that you needed a licence for TV in the UK from a mate.

I didn't believe him at first, as I've grown up here with free to air.


I would have thought if it was free anywhere, the UK would be the place?

 

We pay for TV, yet we are still force fed commercials by the hundreds! Watch an hour TV show, you will spend 24 minutes watching fricking advertisements. And this is a service that you paid $45 per month to get.

I would pirate a TV show any chance I get, just to rip those money hungry monkeys off.

MG cannot condone piracy for liability reasons, but you should all listen to yourselves. To state that it is illegal is one thing.....

but dont sit on a high horse and assert your ethics onto other poeple becuase you dont mind commercials, and you dont mind being ripped off is something different.

 

Pretty soon we wont even be able to change the channel while on commercial. Remind me why we pay for this service again?>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12407199/

 

You have a choice.

If you don't like TV because of the commercials, then don't watch it.

It doesn't give you the right to pirate someone's property just because you don't like the way it's offered.

 

They might be able to prevent channel switching, but they sure can't stop you turning it off

 

Its not as bad as it sounds,its just an extension of pay per view which everything will be eventually,you pay for each program you watch not just sports events and films,if you cant afford to watch it without ads,choose to watch it with ads,at least people with little income will still have TV

 

If you read the page in it's entirety, it says,

"The company also said it had no plans to use the technology in any of its products"

and,

"On Wednesday, company officials issued a statement that noted the technology also enables the opposite: allowing viewers to watch television without advertising."

 

I did read it. your second quote is taken out of context, it is in reference to the previous paragraph in the artile that says:

"Philips acknowledged, however, that the anti-channel changing technology might not sit well with consumers and suggested in its patent filing that consumers be allowed to avoid the feature if they paid broadcasters a fee."

 

That's debatable.

Anyway, forget the second quote. What about the first one I quoted?


It's a technology that's been patented. Doesn't mean it's going to be adopted.

Philips and Sanyo among others, have thousands of patents that have never reached market.

 

/fixed

 

A lot of money probably went into R+D for that technology and when they say they are not going to use it they are either 1) lying or 2) going to sell it to someone else that will use it. Either way, I suspect that it will be used at some point.

 

Its not that I pirate content or anything, beleive it or not I do not own a single .MP3, legal or not, I dont have any movies, cracks, key gens, and I purchased my copy of Windows.

I just hate the escalating costs of media and the insane(!) amount of advertising that they throw at us. Toss in a bad day at work, and its enough to make me want to post my opinion on it.

Im done now...

 

Entertainment is a perk, not a requirement, and as such, not a required expense.

So to complain about something you want, is completely voluntary, and entertainment only, is ludicrous.

My two cents. Support the cause by not supporting them. Don't watch, don't buy it.