Effectiveness of thermal paste...

Okay, I'm going to open myself up to severe razzing here but oh well...I recently went thru hell rebuilding my main PC due to MB failure. I seem to have tracked down the failures to failed MB and case power switch. Now I have a functioning system and have been playing around with it over the weekend. Here's the kicker-I had run out of thermal paste while doing all my rebuilding and troubleshooting..My current rig has not paste on it. So naturally, it is running hot to the point that games will run for about 1-2 minutes b4 system freezes up. Temps in the bios for the cpu are between 50-60 celsius as I monitor it in idle. Now to my point: I have read SOOO many differing opinions and articles regarding thermal paste that my head spins. My conclusion is that I will purchase some Artic Silver 2morrow and apply it and ALL my freexe ups will go away....yeah right I hope so. Question is this how much difference in celsius temp will the paste make in reality?? I mean, from what I read my temps are too high already even without the paste. I just can't see that this stuff is going to make THAT big a difference. Having said that, I ran the same processor on the old MB for years with an original application of OCZ thermal paste and don't recall ever having such overheating issues so maybe I'm answering my own question there.
WHAT TEMP WILL A ATHLON 3400+ CPU RUN AT IN IDLE WITH AND WITHOUT THERMAL PASTE?
Some brilliant person out there must know the answer.
ps-I bought the cpu and heat sink separately-heat sink is a thermaltake product for AMD that still seems to work as it did on day one fyi...

 

BIG suggestion.
Don't run that machine without Thermal Paste. Good way to be shopping for another CPU and motherboard (again ).
Have recently went through the same thing,but mine isn't back up yet.
When you do install the paste, don't go too heavy with it. A drop the size of a BB or match-head spread evenly over the surface is sufficient.

 

Yeah, I hear what your saying. Again, as I said before I used the paste in my previous builds I just ran out b4 I finished this one up this weekend. My question is regarding the amount of temp differential I can expect to see. Reason being, the games I run seem to cause the cpu to go into volcano mode and I wonder just howmuch of a difference the paste REALLY makes. I do understand the basic theory of filling in the air pockets between the heat sink and cpu surface with the paste. I just never paid that much attention to it b4 because my old systems never had these overheating issues. Thanks for your input.

 

Should see huge difference in temps with and without.
Less noticeable is the difference between the different brands.
Remember, the paste does do a better cooling job after it has been run on for a while,so will become more effective.

 

You can probably knock off some 20 degrees to about 35-40C with a proper application of compound. Your chips max is around 70C so that's why gaming trips the auto shutoff.

 

At least you had the heatsink on.LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQUj1Huxsqs

 

Yeah Auggie, hahaha you got me there. I wuz at lest smut enuff to have the heatsink on! Well the results so far are that after applying the artic silver paste to about 3/4 of the center of the CPU at credit card depth, reseating the heatsink, and applying an ever so gentle twist before locking it down...I saw around the same temps at idle in bios readings-around 47c. The difference here is the RPMs of the CPU fan...without the paste to maintain the same 47c temp they were close to 4000. Now, they flux between 3100-3200. Quite a difference. My understanding is that the arctic paste needs time to properly "age" under high temp conditions so I'm optimistic the temp readings will improve. Meanwhile, in actual application I tried running Age of Mythology again and...no freeze ups after about 30 minutes playing time. :-D
So thus far I would have to say the 20 minute drive to Fry's in Arlington and the $8 for the tube were worth it. The evidence shows that without thermal paste between your heatsink and CPU you are headed for failure of the overheating kind. I remain skeptical of these people who claim to have temps of 30-40c at idle but.. Looking good so far, hopefully this will result in happier gaming days ahead for me. :cool

 

That's about 10 times too thick!!!! It should be as thin as possible, but with no gaps.

Remember, the best heat transfer comes from direct surface to surface contact - with NO air trapped between (air makes a great insulator - not good when you want conduction).

The purpose of the TIM is to fill in all the microscopic pits and valleys on the mating surfaces displacing the air. Any extra is in the way!.

Here's my canned text on TIM
*******************************

An often misunderstood and sometimes overlooked critical hardware component is thermal interface material or TIM. TIM is typically seen as a thermal pad on a CPU heatsink, or in paste form. It may also be called thermal grease, silicon grease, heat transfer compound, thermal paste, heat sink compound, goop, and probably more.

The 4 Most Common Heatsink Fan (HSF) Assembly Mounting Mistakes:

1. Failure to use TIM
2. Used too much TIM
3. Reused old TIM
4. Did not clean mating surfaces thoroughly before applying TIM

The purpose of TIM is to ensure all the microscopic pits and valleys in the CPU die and heatsink mating surfaces are void of heat trapping air, maximizing surface to surface contact. Any excess is too much and gets in the way, and can actually be counterproductive to the heat transfer process.

Materials Needed: One clean plastic shaft Q-Tip (cotton swab), acetone or 91% isopropyl alcohol (note - most rubbing alcohol is 70% and leaves a film, 91% alcohol can be found at your local drug store), clean scissors, can of compressed air, and the TIM. I recommend one of the new generations of non-metallic TIMs such as Tuniq TX-2 or AC MX-2, or the venerable silver based TIM, Arctic Silver 5.

WARNING: Keep yourself grounded with the case to ensure there is no static buildup and discharge that might destroy any electrostatic discharge (ESD) sensitive devices. It is important to realize that the "threshold for human awareness" for a static shock is higher than the tolerance of ESD sensitive devices. In other words, you can shock and destroy a CPU, RAM module, or other sensitive device without even knowing there was a static discharge! Use an anti-static wrist-strap or frequently touch bare metal on the case to maintain your body at the same potential as chassis (case) ground.

Preparation: Power off and unplug the computer from the wall. Cut off one cotton swap near the end. Bend the plastic shaft about 1/2 inch from the cut end to make a nice little hockey stick. This is the working end of your TIM application device. Clean the die and heat sink mating surfaces with a soft, lint free cloth dampened (not dripping wet) with acetone or 91% alcohol. Do not let any fluids run down the sides of the CPU die. Clean skin oils from the working end of your applicator with the alcohol dampened cloth. Blast the surfaces with a quick blast of compressed air to ensure the surfaces are dry and no lint or dust remains behind. Do NOT touch the CPU die or heatsink mating surfaces, or the applicator's working end from this point on.

Application: Apply one "drop" of paste on the corner of the die and spread it out across the die with the applicator, like spreading icing on a cake. Spread the paste as thin as possible while ensuring complete coverage. It is easier to add more than remove excess. Remember, too much is counterproductive.

Note 1: Depending on the type of TIM used, some, such as the silver based compounds, can take 2 - 5 days or longer (depending on the power/heat up-cool down cycles) for the TIM to cure and reach optimum effectiveness. A 2 – 4°C drop in average temperatures may be realized after curing.

Note 2: A new HSF may come with a thermal interface pad already applied. Those pads consist of mostly paraffin, which is supposed to melt and squirm out of the way when the CPU heats up for the first time. Thermal pads are certainly better than no TIM at all, but they are not as effective as silver or ceramic based compounds. Do not use a sharp or metal object to remove the pad. A fingernail will work fine, removing any residue with acetone or alcohol.

Note 3: Do not reuse a thermal pad or paste. Always remove the old, cured TIM, clean the mating surfaces thoroughly, and apply a fresh application of new TIM.

Note 4: Thermal adhesive is a specific type of TIM used to permanently or semi-permanently glue heatsinks to devices that have no other heatsink mounting mechanism. Thermal adhesive is NOT intended to be used between a CPU and the CPU heatsink.

Note 5: TIM is also used to ensure maximum heat transfer to the heatsink from graphics processor units (GPUs), chipsets, graphics card memory modules, and other devices. Adhesive TIM, as mentioned in the note above, is often used on these devices as many do not have mounting brackets or holes to support a clamping mechanism. When mounting a heatsink to one of these components, the idea is the same; apply as thin a layer of TIM as possible, while still ensuring complete coverage.

See Benchmark Reviews 33-Way TIM Comparison or TweakTown TIM Review for additional information.

 

I agree with Digerati. a nice thin layer is what you want. You also need to make sure your heatsink is making proper contact with the CPU. As for nice idle temps, I have a screenshot for you. :cool

 

Nice Fred. Hard to see but looks like 20's to 30's. I'm sure with decent cash flow and the right equipment one could achieve really nice low temps. Unfortunately on my budget I have to use what I can get. What I was referring to was the people who claimed similar temps to yours with just paste and a regular ole heatsink. Who knows what actual equipment they had in play. Either way, cool is...cool! :cool
As far as the depth of the "goo" i was just gestimating it. It seemed somewhere between paper and credit card thickness to me (I didn't measure it). What I did do was spread a modest amount in the center and then used a plastic card to spread it over the top of the cpu. I got it as thin as I could with the understanding that the "TIM" would spread and fill in those pockets during high temps. At least, that is what I read in the article about arctic silver online. That was also when I saw the claims about running at 30c and assumed they meant just by adding the paste. When Ifirst powered up into bios the temp read 34c and quickly rose to 47c. The fan maintained that temp with RPM's between 3100-3200 which was better than the 4000+ it needed b4. I guess I just expected more, but I haven't had much "burn in" time yet. I definitely see the improvement though. And, as I stated in an earlier post, I used this same processor for years with a different MB and the same heatsink with one original application of OCZ. I never experienced overheating issues.
All seems well so far, I plan to run the system more tonight and see what happens but I expect it will be fine. Thanks for everyones input.

 

Well, my Intel quad Q6600 runs at about 40C on air @ idle with stock cooling and 60C at full blast. I only have cores 0 and 1 pinned ATM, for SMP folding of course.

 

Mine is overclocked a little, and has 2 120mm case fans, and a ThermalRight True heatsink with a 120mm fan. Just to give you a bit of a reference.