Etiquette...

Etiquette. Who teaches its basics to kids now-a-days?

The basics were taught to me by my parents growing up and drummed into us by school teachers. During teenage and adolescent years, moving with an older crowd and a much older boyfriend, I quickly learnt social etiquette which held me in good stead as I moved into the business world then learnt all the other etiquette rules as I progressed in the world.

On crowded buses, I don’t hesitate to stand for someone elderly or pregnant or trying to manage children or physically obviously needing a seat. Then to turn around and see youth still seated gets me heated.

And what I view as shameful, are bus signs advising specified front seats should be offered to such persons in need. Really! Are we such a rude, ignorant and disrespectful society that we need to be told when and how we should show respect to those in need?

Or people loudly making nuisances of themselves in public places (bars, restaurants, streets, etc.). Don’t even get me started on mobile (cell) phone etiquette in public. Like I need to hear everyone else’s business.

Call me old fashioned, but Etiquette simply boils down to showing respect to those around you and how to handle yourself in front of others. Respect. Another word that I don’t always see applied.

Regrettably, about the only the place I do see etiquette and respect because it is enforced is in the court room.

That’s my rant, mainly brought about by a scene on a bus when youths occupied seats while ignoring a disabled person struggling to get to a seat located further down the bus. Seated at the back of the bus, I voiced discern, earning vocal abuse from these youths, which then was shouted down by the bus driver – causing further distress to the disabled person still trying to get to a seat.

Etiquette. Do people now-a-days even know its meaning? Guess when people of standing (in the public eye, politics, etc) don't display it, it makes it harder to teach it.

That’s my rant.

 

You are not alone.
As you found , even ,hoping that the respect we all learned in our youth might still be around is shewn by the youths verbal abuse on that bus.
Unfortunately the do-gooders , and child abuse systems have gone beyond sense. A parent giving their child a warning 'clip',or,the policeman clipping us around the ear if we did not show respect was acceptable in our youth - But, in bringing in the lack of discipline, with modern laws, it has made it very difficult to chastise the young, which has followed through to teenagers, and even some parents.
I am lucky to have children,who have my grandchildren, and great grandchildren that still ensure their children, whatever their age, show respect - It is, in the end the parents who have created these last generations, and will create the next generation.
Luckily, I still find that it is only a minority that act like those on the bus- being big amongst their mates.

 

Nope

Let me say this.

When i drive school bus there is none etiquette none.

The Kids that have major disability's have more etiquette than the brats that go to regular schools.The kids that go to regular schools,Act like little jerks to some of the school bus drivers.I am not saying it's all kids just some of them.Parents need to know that it's not all ways the bus drivers at fault.The kids them self's distract the bus driver by fighting or getting to loud.And it's there fault if the driver get's in an accident.But some schools don't see that it's the kids fault even though they are distracting the driver.

Just this week one of are drivers had this issue and was not at fault.But the driver was taken off the run because they be leaved the snot nose brats that caused the issue.Even though they where the ones fist fighting.

Oh and they have video and audio in school buses now.The school district still said no to the driver even though it was the kids fist fighting.

 

True. Laws were brought in because capital punishment in some instances were quite severe which in many cases became child abuse, so not tolerated. Same as violence against women (remember the old movies of John Wayne? Him slapping up a fiesty woman, taming her to become a temperate wife?)

Again, severe instances brought about laws - screaming at someone causing intimidation/verbal abuse is also considered criminal.

Difficult to put a measure on how physical punishment is dealt so the law pretty much removed what is physical - it being considered as abuse - same goes with emotional/mental abuse.

This turn of events meant a stronger emphasis on teaching respect to moderate how people act/react.

In retrospect, I could have/should have handled that situation better. Those kids reacted to the manner I spoke with them, forcefully rather than calmly with respect (which I've done in the past with positive results). I leaped to a disabled person's defense with my reaction and manner of speaking to those kids, so I should take part of the blame for its outcome.

 

Some parents are pretty good, then I have seen other parents leaving their kids to cause havoc in public/wherever while they are busy texting/on their mobile (cell). There have been on occasion I have gently grabbed a kid's hand and returned the child to their parent with a friendly smile saying, "I was worried about your kid with that strange fellow about...oh, he's gone now." (Even though there wasn't anyone - I just wanted to shock them back to attention.) But when it comes to teens, it is difficult. On that bus, I now reckon I reacted badly and should have handled it better.

Kids on school/any buses:
Here there are laws re behaviour of passengers which may cause problems with the bus driver - e.g. under our Passenger Transport Act 1990, there will be investigation of reports received re unacceptable behaviour by a public passenger or a vehicle driver. I expect the same should apply where you are, regardless even if the bus is a school bus.

As for that bus driver being dismissed, he should consider going to a community legal centre (where they provide free advice) regarding this dismissal which appears to be unfair (so he may have a case against them to either be reinstated or get compensation for loss of work) anyway, that's up to him to consider.

 

Oooopsy! Freudian slip... meant corporal punishment

(wouldn't be able to justify executing someone through lack of etiquette...though on occasion I felt murderous enough to do so)

 

People think bus drivers got it easy.

Some do have good routes and good kids.

But there are others that get the shitty routes.

 

Unfortunately, a similar situation was reported on a school bus, in may area, and the driver threatened to put the nasty ones off the bus- he was told- "You cannot do that- it's against the law", by the boys.
What a situation !
I am sorry, but I think the cost cutting that started many years ago, where the conductor was an "unnecessary extra ", has helped make things more difficult.
That conductor could be given the power to refuse entry on to the bus, to known troublemakers, and help reduce the distraction that the driver is forced to put up with.
Also, the noisy ones in the town , are the usual show -offs, who could be drunk, or, high- these come in all ages - No police presence (again - cuts to services) seems to encourage, and escalate their behavior.
Both parents working to keep a roof over their heads - No one home to keep them in check, until evening.
As you said, legalsuit, mums, texting and their youngsters wandering all over - Mobile phones ,ipods, ipads -

 

Regardless, whether good or "shitty routes", bus drivers have rights too. The local government (e.g. here we have "Councils") or a State Government should have some laws that would provide some protection to bus drivers where warranted.

 

No.

I reckon those kids have no clue as to what they're threatening by stating "...it's against the law."

I also reckon if laws were checked (whether local, State or Federal - or all three) one will find if there is a behaviour issue re passengers then bus drivers are not only entitled to put the passenger(s) in question off the bus, but can also call the police to deal with the problem.

Re conductor's power to refuse entry onto the bus - bus drivers have this power.

Albeit if I were to check laws within your locality I'd find something along this line. Bus drivers are similar to ship captains, they have obligations and responsibilities - as do passengers. Carryings on by passengers that cause chaos or problems with other passengers and/or the bus driver becomes a safety issue and not to be tolerated.

Bus drivers should lodge complaints with appropriate authorities. Bus drivers cannot be so vulnerable to such antics - it only makes it an unsafe environment not only for other passengers and the bus drivers but also for the general public should an accident occur as an outcome.

 

Unfortunately,I cannot quote the Law, but in the UK, as I understand it, making a minor alight from a bus is frowned upon, and I know this happened as I said. I would have thought that the offenders should be refused a seat at the start of the journey- but, it does not appear so.

 

Without reviewing your law and also not knowing the age of the minor in question (minor = under 18yrs in the UK), it is difficult for me to comment.

I'm not sure what age group you're referring to re the minor if "making a minor alight from a bus is frowned upon" (which in the UK is under 18) nor do I know the type of environment (e.g. middle of the bush vs middle of the city or suburbia) as these factors cause variations in considerations and actions.

However, citing a similar situation here, where it was a school bus (I believe a private company run/paid by the school not a public bus system) a formal complaint was lodged against the offender, 10yr minor through appropriate channels. Consequently, the child was no longer allowed to use the school bus system and it was left to the parent(s) to drive child to/from school.

A few months back, there was another similar situation with another 10yr with a similar outcome with the same school. However, this posed a huge problem for the parent who sought legal assistance. In this instance, with further questioning, I found the child had autism spectrum disorder.

So this became an entirely different problem, one of discrimination against the child and quite a battle against the school bus company. Long story cut short, an agreement was reached where the education department contributed towards an alternative transport for the child which financially assisted the parent and resolving the transport problem for this particular child.

So there are a number of factors to look into when it comes to complaining about troublesome children on school buses, so laws will vary accordingly. The best approach re troublesome children on school buses is to lodge a formal complaint to the appropriate authority and follow the processes accordingly.

If public transport, then I expect there are regulations covering bus drivers. Here's a link I found on guidance re anti-social behavioiur which may be of some use:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/anti-social-behaviour-on-public-transport-safety-measures

 

Still vague, - I do remember some years ago, a youngster was put off a bus, and was killed. I feel laws are too lax for punishing youngsters, in the U.K, and they seem to be able to do almost anything they wish, nowadays, and it starts when they get away with things at a very young age - We used to have Borstals for those in need of punishment, maybe not the best idea, and I believe the bootcamp is another, but I stick by what I initially said- It starts at home- teachers get the blame, but some parents do not help the teachers "My child is not that bad, what are you teaching them" - seems to be the attitude, with parents refusing to accept that first and last their children are most influenced by their parents .
I think we will all have different views on this, but, little, or, no proper punishment (I don't mean beatings) cannot help.

 

Laws will vary dependent on type and level of offence (e.g. civil versus criminal).

For criminal offences, I believe in the UK the legal criminal age is 10yrs (similar here as a uniform age of criminal responsibility across our states).

However, here we have a rebuttable presumption that a child aged at least 10 but less than 14 is "incapable of crime" (doli incapax). We also have a variance in legal criminal ages across our states (juveniles 10-16yrs in one state and 10-17 yrs in all other Australian jurisdictions) - Upon reaching 18yrs they are then recognised as adults and legally treated as such.

Here, parents have legal responsibility for their children until they turn 18 and this responsibility extends to having court orders requiring them to do certain things, or to give security for the good behaviour of their child.

I believe same applies in UK, with some variances in different parts of the UK and that a similar type order can be served upon parents.

This type of onus on the parents (reflective of what you've stated of where responsibility lies) puts the parents at task and responsible for their kids action.

Again, one must take care not to mix all kids behaviour into the one pot. Some children have conditions (e.g. autism) which may bring about anti-social behaviour versus those kids who just behave badly.

Here we have certain procedures for dealing with children from 10yrs to 18yrs who offend - they are dealt by the Youth Court.

Kids under 18yrs for a first or minor offence get an informal caution by Police which involves their parents. No official record is kept of this caution.

For a 2nd time offender who has had a caution and the offence is not serious enough to go to Youth Court, the kid goes through a Family Conference - a specific procedure where the kid must admit to the offence and agree to attend the conference before a Family Conference can be held. A Family Conference is a meeting involving the kid, their family, a police youth officer, the victim of the offence and any other relevant people. The meeting will decide what penalty the kid will get for the offence. The penalty may be an apology, community service work or another penalty. If the kid does not agree with the decision, the matter can be referred to the Youth Court.

This procedure has proven successful , as a better chance of ensuring young people do not go on to commit further crime. Prison here is now widely acknowledged as a solution of last resort for most juveniles.

Not sure if UK has the same legal procedures for juveniles.

Re criminal offences in Australia:
Children here cannot be charged with a criminal offence until they are 10 years old. ( Children under 10 are not seen as mature enough to commit criminal offences.)

Kids between 10 and 14 years may be responsible for offences committed and if charged with a crime, it must be proved in court that the kid knew what they did was ‘seriously wrong’ at the time they did it, and not just ‘naughty’.

Upon turning 14yrs, a kid will be responsible for any offence they commit.

Again, not sure of the relevant ages/dealing of offences in the UK, but you may find they are probably the same with children, as countries (e.g. Australia, UK, America) tend to confer and agree with Child Protection guidelines which this would come under.

 

All of this traces back to one's upbringing in the home. Either the parent(s) raise their children to respect others' rights, feelings, and possessions, or they don't. Discipline is sorely lacking in recent generations' training. Just my opinion. I still say "Sir, Ma'am, etc." because I was brought up to respect my elders (I am one now) and be polite. It was a major affront to parents of my generation if their offspring brought shame or criticism upon the family. Not so much nowadays. Sad state of affairs.

 

Legalsuit-
We struggle to cope with the protective side of society - not just with the young.........
Gensuknives -
Exactly my view, too.