Fact or Fiction?

Hi


1. What issues? this was a major downside in public perception in Vista, most issues where due to these OSes being beta and users installing then at this stage when they really didn't appreciate what a beta test is, thus created much bad press.

If you have a Vista spec PC with no driver issues then you're likely to run Windows 7 fine, majority of software that works in Vista works in Win7, but like all OS updates they will be some software that wont until the 3rd party has updated their app.

2. Its actually in pre-beta stage at present, with some internal beta versions floating around the offices at MSFT, and yes testing will overcome any issues or the majority of them as no-way can any software developer these days say their product will work for all, too many hardware and software permutations.

The beta phase should start soon, dont know date, but things are gearing for the Connect Beta for Windows 7

3. Yes very likely that an upgrade route will come from XP SP3 but you would need to have a PC thats current hardware spec wise or one that currently runs Vista as they is more easy route to upgrading.

4. Thats always what folk say, wait till SP1 then its wait till SP2 oh hang on wait till the next version of Windows, and then once that new version is out they say oh wait for next one. XP is superb and one of Microsofts best OSes I feel, although I dont use it on any of my 4 PCs at home, much prefer Vista and will go Windows 7 when that time appears, I like to move with the times.

5. Yes always going to be folk who dont like specific parts of an os, but as far as I know their are NO folk on a Windows 7 beta test on Microsoft Connect, which is the beta place, yes their are some users who have the PDC 2008 version of the pre-beta 6801 version, and some TAP users with it who are giving feedback to MSFT, but internal connect beta and CTPs are not out yet, so the number of folk who have this in a sanctioned by MSFT test and feeback roll is not many, the rest just have a pre-beta they downloaded off the net, some maybe previous beta testers awaiting for the call to test this so getting in a sneek preview, but active feedback is not happening apart from the area I'm party too and its just first views comments really, with folk on the various dev teams.

I do have Windows 7 v6801 64bit running on a 2yr old ACER Laptop that was a Vista pre-installed machine, works with no issues, all drivers and most software that works with Vista works, few that dont, but early days to this OS and its likely to if what I have seen so far blow the socks off Vista, but then thats my interpertation and it wont be to everyones cup of tea.

Proof of test for me is can I use this Windows version daily as a main work machine and yes the answer is, no crashes and no major issues, even have a freebie game in Area51 running on it fine, Office 2007, Avast in my AV all work great, note I said 64bit also... all drivers found and working.

BUT dont believe all you read in the net.... most have not used this software and just jump on a bandwagon, best if you get the chance and wish to test it when its released as a CTP (community technical program) release to the public, give it a go, but remember until it goes RTM its not final version so could have bugs, but then again even at RTM its going to have bugs, be like me treat all software as buggy and beta.


Some infos from the enginnering team on Win7 http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/
http://windowsteamblog.com/
http://connect.microsoft.com/default.aspx

 

Hi Augie

Depends on how much involvement (suggestions/bug reports and activity in the NG)you had in Longhorn/Vista to wether you may gain an invite sent direct over having to register, but remember to keep active on the Connect general newsgroup as I not many are asking for a test chance, although I dont think the teams may go that route, and will pick folk by the surveys, had to fill out 3 or more for some tests they are getting choosy me thinks.


Some more info on Win 7 from Mark Russinovich here

 

Hi

May have to enlighten me as to what supscription issue and is this a bug within the Windows 7 OS? (I deal with various supbcription routes so would need to know which one your refering to and what its impact on Window 7 could be, knowing Windows 7 is not out yet)


Not personally had issues with MSDN or TechNet subscriptions, but likely I'm in an easier position to get support as my route can be different.

If your talking about Enterprise/Corp/MAPS/MSPP subscriptions then yet I'll agree they do cost money and the level of support should be of good quality, if its not then you need to chat to your local rep.

In many cases now free support for us general users is available (tends to be linked with Service Pack used XP SP3 goes on till 14 April 2009), is limited at times I will agree, which is why forums like these are a bonus these days, in a perfect world an OS would/should work 100% of the time, but we need to factor in many variables, like differing hardware/software permutations an last but not least the end user.

I installed this version of Vista Ultimate on a PC built for Vista by myself with a Sys Rating of 5.5 so not the most powerful around in Nov 2006 and installed Vista, not once have I had to clean or repair install it, for me I have found Vista much more stable than XP was from RTM to SP1, if after using the M3 6801 build of Windows 7 now for 3 weeks or so and its working fine on the pre-mentioned laptop then I can only say that at this point in time stablity and the included updated and new features are going to be impressive..... will comment more in later beta builds if it stays the same and or features are not cut.

Majority of companies have some sort of tiered support and at times they can cost a fortune, we have Dell Gold support for works PC, this level of support is good but costs and is far superour to what general support is like in many cases.


The timeline on OS releases has slowed in the past few years, its not been a secret that MSFT release an OS near every two years (apart from 1998-2001 when we had one consumer one each year), been same since they started but without working price vs inflation I woudlnt off hand know if the value has gone too high, I do hope that they have better pricing structure for Window 7, thought the various SKUs for Vista where too expensive especially for Ultimate.

Apple are no different IIRC in costs for support and their proprietory parts can be expensive opposed to the PCs wealth of hardware and consumables, but personally I like all OSes, all bring something unique to daily computing, all have pitfalls and great features, all crash and cause us to tear our hair out, and some have better support than others.



Getting back to Windows 7 and compatability, I have installed all the apps I would use on both my work XP machine and my home Vista ones and all bar two applications work, MSFT One Care (suprised at this one but emailed the team on this and they are changing the installer soon) and Acronis True Image 2009, again suprised but many of these issues are down to the 3rd party not updating the installer to recognise a new OS.

Oh and Adobe Flash doesnt work in a x64bit browser yet, but they are working on that too, works in the 32bit one.

 

Capn, not trying to have a go at you or anything, just I do see where your coming from and that information you read from Mary-Jo Foley was from July 2007! things have changed since then, yes a subscription idea was banded around and AFAIK (can ask) that the subcription service is likely to be and morphed into Azure a version of Cloud computing, interesting although not looked into it as its not a area for me. Think I may still have an email reply from when I was absent from a conference a month or so ago when Mary-Jo Foley was at MSFT UK and I submitted a question on what she things now of Windows 7.

Still they may run dual subscription based packages and to some subscription based maybe what they need computing with others infastructure if an when needed so not of the heavy costs of managment and repair, prices sometimes are the last thing to be worked out and Vista did have a focus group of industy techs and reporters, thing Ed Bott or Robert McLaws was at one of them when the idea of Family licences was touted as we all know that most households have upwards of 2/3 PCs so why not have a licence that covers 3 PCs, they did this for a short while and think many in BT teams will push for this again.



I dunno MarkT, I at least mentioned Windows 7 in each post with info that was asked for as I feel this is what caused negative issues with Vista, seeing it all again with old stories that are while potential directions for Microsoft to go, as that particular conference in Orlando was 1yr 4mths ago and no-one outside microsoft knows all the nitty grittys of what will come with Windows 7 SKU costs or if Subscriptions are to be an alternative best to hammer them out now.

Thing is its very early days for Win7 and while I like the M3 pre-beta build it may go horribly wrong later down the development process or may become better, I dont know is the upshot, but I will as I did early in an email feedback my worries and worries of users like us in how pricing may go.

Lets see how subscription and other parts of Windows 7 turn out if we review this topic this time next year as it will be around 1 month to RTM minus the hiccups!


@Augie, nah doubt that if he has been invited to Win7 already he is in the very first wave as many from Vista testing that still do the SP tests are not invited also as yet, or just started to be, so if they are active still in feedback they will be ok.

 

Hi Guys

@Capn ~ I know the issues in running Vista in a corporate or in my case a government network, we have too much at present old software and kit which all needs updating at last look I think the update costs which are going ahead where 20bn (35bn $ or so) has been delayed had many hiccups along the way, so slow going, Vista on our area is being tested but is not being used globally on the 10k+ PCs in buildings still on XP SP3 (took 1yr to go SP2 due to resiliance testing).

But back to Windows 7, if you can get your head around Windows Vista the move to Win 7 will be easier as they will not be going backwards and making it an XP clone to satisfy folk, they are going steps ahead of Vista, but simplifying many areas of Vista that confused folk or made in many cases it harder to connect networks and many other tasks, as I mentioned I do have it in the pre-beta build and will get the interim builds upto RTM, so please judge it on where it stands now and not on hearsay from years ago, from folk who hate MSFT, from the Vista tests and its initial compatability issues, if you can get a CTP build of it and there will be one do so and try it out and if a feature is not to your liking great post about it with constructive reasons why, this is much better than positive than just jumping in with same comments as others, many who have never used Vista or even seen Win 7 live.

IIRC their will be an option in Win 7 to click andallow you to bug report and send feedback, be construction and clear in the report and the techs will listen, may not act but if enough report same issue they act.


@MarkT ~ no need to be sorry, know what you mean when they go off track, just trying to get folk to not compare Win7 with Vista and more so at this stage when its pre-beta and while not as many bugs as Vista at this stage, does have some, hell XP still has some still. Oh yes click if not already the Ed Bott link I posted above, its his take on the build we have, note he says folk and I'll quote ~

and the best one was a classic reply in Mary-Jos article from this month, knowing the article is a year and a half old the poster told her that her dates where off! Win 7 was signed of as a go in 2006 so 3yrs from then as she knew would be 2009 poss 2010 baring mishaps, sadly this mentality of dragging down MSFT (like the old Intel vs AMD fanboy wars) is tiresome and many need to embrace technology as we not moving backwards and the beloved XP will cease at some point making transition harder, could say go Linux, but many will not.

Also saves this link on 6 months after XPs release http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/pcperipherals/0,39051168,39046200,00.htm may need to click the main subject titles as its old article, carried by many tech news websites back in the day.



But some piccies and info as I'm not under NDA with this build but take it that the aero package is still Vistas for now, easier in the process to have a GUI that works, the next builds have the new Start menu and taskbar and Aero Shake, which is brill idea for when you use multiple apps and want side by side applications without having to resize window manually.


General pic

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4084/46359752kb1.th.jpghttp://img185.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif


MS Paint and Wordpad have been give a slight overhaul, yay about time too, brought into being more like cut down versions of Office 2007 apps and the Ribbon Menu will be making an appearance likely in other apps.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7536/mspaintribbonqh1.th.jpghttp://img156.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2748/83699764xb1.th.jpghttp://img340.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Fonts ~ long has the fonts folder in Windows been poor IMHO, no managment of Fonts, early days but its starting to resemble a better layout, now you not only see a few glyph's of your font you may notice some are stacked, this represents the fact that I have multiples from the same font family installed.

Install of fonts is by right click the font and choose install or drag and drop in to the font folder, easy. Maybe a preview window would be great that when you clicked your font icon its full character list showed in a folder preview window over its opening secondary window.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7140/fontsqh7.th.jpghttp://img185.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Defrag ~ starting to ge back to what many thought was missing from Vista, in giving the uers some info, like % checked, still would like many like a graphical representation of the HDD blocks.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2915/defrag2wo9.th.jpghttp://img185.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Disk Burning ~ well not only can you burn CD/DVDs and their RW counterparts but you can burn ISOs too.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3548/diskimageburningbf6.th.jpghttp://img185.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Messages and Troubleshooting ~ could be very good and has the potential to give the user and tech like many of us lots of information on an issue, it also will tie in with the Vista style of if you do feedback the issue to MSFT and other have same issue once a solution is found it pops up ( think a trigger point has to be reched on number of reports)

The messaging side is an alert window that in in system tray and alerts the user to issues immediatly (can be customised).

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5559/messagesxk9.th.jpghttp://img237.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9109/troubleshootingvw6.th.jpghttp://img145.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8739/solutioncenterio6.th.jpghttp://img237.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Apperance or aka themes ~ not tried any 3rd party themes as yet, likely wont work and potential reason is that un-tested ones "maybe" unstable, but likely their will be a uxtheme.dll patch or this maybe an option from within Windows to add 3rd partiy themes

But themes and appearence is all neatly packs together and click one and almost instantanious your screen will change to new layout and look.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5004/personalizationakathememl1.th.jpghttp://img237.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif


Resources Monitor, Task Manager etc ~ the old Task Manager is still with us but now adds a new button for the geeky type, Resources Monitor in which you can monitor all the major sections of the PC, CPU, HDD, RAM and Network, DO NOTE at this point memory managment in Win 7 will be far more streamlined than before (unused or allocated ram is wasted ram, repeat 10 times) and as you will note my my screenshot my available free ram is a lofty 9mbs, before many fall on the floor, think about how ram works, and then look at the readings on the control panel, also to note this is development build an many tasks for data/bug/system collection are in at this point eating ram. However the amount of running services from that in a default Vista are lower!

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6042/resourceeb3.th.jpghttp://img522.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Windows Update ~ slightly changed and will give more info to the user.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6890/windowsupdatewb5.th.jpghttp://img211.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2928/winupdateav6.th.jpghttp://img522.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

UAC ~ the all time fav, now has the option via a slider to allow you to choose, I persoanally would leave it at default as shown in the image, as turning off form many will leave their PC open to malicious software, I have not noticed any where near the UAC popups that Vista has on this setting, apart from the main admin type tasks, that well are core components.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2231/uaclj6.th.jpghttp://img522.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif


Another noteable thing is data transfer around netowrk and to and from USB is vastly quicker.


well that raps up that small insight into Windows 7 6801 M3 pre-beta.

 

Alot of the floating ones on the net are pre-betas and early Milestome M1 65xx builds over the PDC M3 6801 build, TBH if you can get the PDC build then trial that one out, very stable, but when the beta builds are released they will be more close to the final product and worth testing as mentioned likey to be available in one or two builds CTP and RTM build via the normal legit routes, wouldnt advise on torrent locations as being a noteable software they are widely hacked with malware etc.