help for crashing

Not really sure if this is a hardware or software problem. I bought a bare bones a couple of weeks age. I added a few things to it to my likings. When i got it it had xp pro installed and was working great. I installed Vistamiser which i had on my old desktop and worked great. When i added the program it caused a logon error. I decided to wipe the hdd and reinstall a copy of xp home. When i went to re-install xp the hdd was too corrupt to copy to so i bought a new 160gb. Finally got xp loaded after it crashing twice during install. Now with xp it will work fine and will stay up all day as long as i don't load any programs. Firefox and Opera crash, Outlook crashes, and now even when loading a cd, after an unusually long loading time explorer crashes. eventually I get a BSOD. My first thought was bad ram but that checks out fine. Any Ideas?

My system consist of:
MOBO-GigaByte P4 Titan 533 A: 3.5 floppy
Processor- Intel 2.8ghz C: 160gb WD Caviar
Ram- 3200,512mb D: Sony CD-RW
AGP- ati Legacy w/tv tuner E: Toshiba DVD-ROM
sound- Sound Blaster PCI128

 

It sounds like a possible memory problem. Visit the Memory downloads section here at Major Geeks (link http://www.majorgeeks.com/downloads26.html) and select 2 or 3 memory testing diagnostic programs. Run each one using the advanced or extended settings, and run each one for several complete passes, or for at least 2 hours. Personally, I like this one:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/Microsoft_Windows_Memory_Diagnostic_d3955.html With it, you'll create a bootable CD or floppy. Then boot to it, press 'T' for the extended tests, and let it run. You may find out right away that something is wrong, or it may take 3 or 4 passes. There's plenty of great free RAM diagnostic apps here at MG, try a couple....
:major Good luck! and Welcome to Major Geeks! :major

Oh yeah.... if you have 2 RAM sticks installed, try running XP with just one. If it errors, try the other. Same with the RAM tests. I've seen a pair of memory sticks cause all kinds of XP problems. But when tested together, they'd pass the diagnostic. When each stick was tested alone, errors popped up all over in the diagnostic tests.... also, if you have any other cards installed (modem, sound card, NIC, etc), try removing them and see if stability returns. You can probably do the same with the floppy drive (if present), and any CD or DVD drives. Sometimes a bad data cables can cause all kinds of problems.

 

Welcome to MajorGeeks!

What power supply do you have in the offending compruter? Also, how did you check the RAM?

E

 

power supply had just crossed my mind. Would insufficient wattage causing a brown out effect cuase this

the PS is an API rated 250 watts which does seem rather low

memory test: Memtesy84+ from bootable floppy I just ran about 3 passes

 

Can't see why you are viewing this as a hardware problem?

 

Like I said I'm not sure if it's hardware or software, And I didn't see a catagory for unknown.

 

Well as I see it you had a working pc
You messed with the software
You had a problem.

The net is full of woes of XP users who 'installed ' Vistamiser.

Tell us more detail exactly what you did.

 

As I said I installed Vistamiser which caused a logon error. from there I just decided to Install XP home. When i did the hdd was too corrupt to to copy the windows files to it. It was only 30gb so i trashed it and bought a new WD Caviar 160gb. Installed xp at which time it crashed without bsod during install. Once xp was running the crashing of programs and bsod are occuring.

 

Forgot to point out that when xp was installed it was on a raw drive so it wasn't a repair install or anything. It crashed before xp was fully installed so I'm leaning toward a hardware issue. I can see where you are coming from though and if it is hardware it seems extremely coincidental.

 

So you have two opticals and one ide hard drive.

Is the old one also connected?

How is the IDE configured?

what flavour of XP home have you installed?
what size of hard drive does the bios show for the Caviar?

yes 250 watts is light but doable if the graphics card is not too demanding.

Do the crashes occur in safe mode?
Do the crashes occur with the hard drive disconnected? Use the bios or a floppy or cd based O/S to run the system?

 

Have you overclocked at all?

It could be a ram problem, lets check to see if it is and rule it out if not:

Please download Memtest86+ from HERE.

Download the .ISO file, then burn it too a disk using your burning software.

If you haven't got any, then you can use THIS free .ISO recorder by alexfeinman.

Then, enter bios, select too boot from CD, insert your memtest86+ CD, then re-boot your computer. It is recommended to let it to run for at least 7 passes, you may run it for shorter or longer if you wish. Check each stick of ram individually, then together.

If memtest86+ gives you errors, then it is more than likely to be faulty ram. However, be aware that some faulty ram can pass memtest86+.

Now, lets check for overheating. To see your temps, please download Everest from HERE.

Once installed, run Everest. Then click the large computer icon in the left pane, followed by the sensor icon. Here you can see all your current temps, as well as your psu voltages.

Check to make sure your system is receiving enough power. Make sure there is enough amps on the 12v rail.

Next, check your pagefile is ok.

Right click my computer, select properties, then the advanced tab.

Under performance, click settings. Click on the advanced tab and then on the change button.

Click on the custom size button and click in the initial size box, make the size of the page file 0. Click in the maximum size box, make the size of the page file 0, then click set.

Once done, reboot your machine. Once your back into Windows run a defrag. Once the defrag is finished, go back to the pagefile settings above and click on the change button. For the initial and maximum pagefile size make it 1.5 times the amount of ram you have. i.e if you have 512mb of ram set the page file to 768mb.

If your still receiving crashes, then attach 5 or 6 of your latest minidumps. The minidumps can be found at: C:\windows\minidump. Note: Minidump files have a .dmp extension.

Regards Jason

 

Old hdd is not connected

hdd and opticals on seperate ide cables, hdd jumper set to standalone, cd-rw on end of cable set to master with dvd-rom below set to slave.

running a basic Xp home SP2

doesn't seem to crash in BIOS and have run two bootable discs for memory checking one has run for 3 hours for 60 passes with no crash, haven't tried safe mode, somehow never crossed my mind.

 

Not overclocked. memtest8686+ already ran along with wmd. checking temps with everest, and pagefiling. will update

 

Everest temperature results. some pretty good fluctuations. unplugged the cd-rw and plugged back in, upon contact of plugging in +12v dropped to 0.91v and the system crashed without bsod. temps and voltage roughly as follows:

MOBO 48F-165F mostly staying a under 100 with some spikes
CPU 48F-134F

+2.5 0.91v-2.53v
+3.3 0.92v-2.89v
+5v 1.60v-4.81v
+12v 4.74v-11.3v mostly staying under 10.0

 

checked voltage with a meter. for +12v i got 11.92, for +5v i got 5.05
something's funny between everest and actual.

 

Other than as seriously out of range alarms I never put much store by the readouts of onboard sensors. They are too cheap.

I can't see that defrag or playing about with the page file is appropriate to a new installation either.

Now you have established that you don't get problems if you run the pc without using a hard drive.

Did you try another O/S?

I wonder if there is a simple hardware solution after all. If the data cable to the hard drive is either damaged, seriously folded/twisted, or simply the wrong sort it would account for the effects on both drives. By the wrong sort I mean the old 40 wire thick rib cable. It is quite possible the original drive was fitted with this since it is only 30G.

Is the 160GB new?

If there is nothing wrong with your ide installation - the drive set as master and connected to the end, not middle of the data cable. The data cable should be connectd to the primary channel on the motherboard - then the only item left is really, drivers. Trying safe mode might have been an indicator here.

What is your source of drivers, once you have installed XP?

 

Some more wierd stuff. I ran two memory checkers outside of windows from a bootable disc and found no memory errors. I ran another memory checker inside xp and got a error about 12% in the between 14-16% i got over 300 errors.

I am going to give ubuntu a shot and see what happens.

 

My ide cables are the flat ribbon cable types. Could that cause issues.
The 160gb drive was off the shelf less than 2 days ago.

 

The next step is too post your minidumps.

Have you cleaned the gold remnants on your ram and see if that helps?

Regards Jason

 

Thre are two types of flat cable. Both types have the same connectors at the ends and can be plugged into each others sockets.

The older 40 wire type was used with hard drives and CD readers, and still is with CD readers.

The newer 80 wire type was introduced when bigger faster hard drives came out. If you use the older type on a modern hard drive it will work after a fashion, but with random errors - like you are seeing. 80 wire types are also OK with optical drives.

You can distinguish by counting the ribs - you don't have to be perfectly accurate it's either 40 or 80. Side by side the 80 wire apears much finer.

See post75 of this thread

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=140850&highlight=80+wire+cable&page=2

 

Deffinatley 80 on the hdd, 40 on opticals.
Somehow i never noticed the difference. Never mentioned in high school infotech, just acronyms and tech support training pretty much.

 

Note also what I said about twisted, folded or damaged.


If not we will just have to carry on with plan B

What happened to the answer to my question on drivers?

 

As far as drivers i updated all drivers possible through manufaturers websites. Ones not found by manufactures i did the best i could with google.

For minidumps how would i post them. Can't attach a minidump file. I can read them with debugger but can't seem to copy anything from that.

 

The latest are not always appropriate or best.

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=35246&highlight=minidump

 

I would bet the psu is the issue 250 is low for a rig like that one I would never go below 350 but it could also be mem issue unpluge any unnessery components CD/dvd burner usb stuff and try if it is the psu browning out that might help or at least tell you if the psu is the issue

 

minidump

 

minidump

 

Over to you Jason.

I still favour incorrect drivers.

 

ok i looked at the mini dumps it seems that it looks like something is corrupt run mem testx86 over night at least but i would reinstall windows as the mini dumps are telling me that some of the kernal system files are borking up this COULD be caused by bad ram but I doubt it at this point as the err's are consistent "IE the same file over and over agin is causing the crash " at the very least I would backup your data do a full format and clean install windows

 

I am curious about this recent bare bones pc with a 2.8G processor and only a 30 G hard drive. Also your XP Cd is an older version.

I think you will certainly need proper drivers to make things work properly.
I also wonder about DEP conflicts.
Look into your bios and set the 'noexecute=' to no 'noexecute=alwaysoff'.

I also wonder if you can install workable programs if you do this before installing windows updates - maybe it is an SP2 compatibility problem.

What drivers do you have and what are you missing?

 

.......
WHAT ? I think your in the wrong thread

 

.......
WHAT ? I think your in the wrong thread

 

My apologies it should have read 'look into your boot.ini file' not bios.

@rjc Try reading the original post again.

 

Ok as far as the boot file it was set to noexecute=alwaysoff

For installing programs before windows updates. I had installed opera and firefox prior to using windows updates. Tried windows updates but it fails to install anything.

DEP I've never really messed with before

As far as drivers I've gotten what seems to be most appropriate through manufacturer and google.

If there's any more details about the system hardware or drivers or anything that would be useful, just let me know what you need and i'll get the best details i can.

 

I have run three memory tests, Memtest86 included. Ran that one over night, and let another one run outside of windows for about 6 hours the previous day. they both found nothing. I ran another tester that runs inside windows and turned up a few flags.

 

This is an oddball problem.

I have been reviewing the original data.

http://tw.giga-byte.com/Support/Motherboard/Driver_Model.aspx?ProductID=1443

Is this the board?

If so which drivers are you using and what is the serial no?

Exactly which processor?

You say you added some stuff. Did this include the Sony CDRW?

If so disconnect it. They have been known to halt windows in its tracks.

 

GA-8sr533 http://tw.giga-byte.com/Products/Mo...herboard&ProductID=1337&ProductName=GA-8SR533

I did not know that about sony. I do have a regualr cd-rom i can stick in for now. Ohh and the cd-rw was added.

I'll include everst reports for cpu and mobo that should tell you more than i can.

 

Just to recap on your original specs.

The motherboard listed in my link (and your original spec) is nothing like the board listed in your Everest printout.

The board in my link has a good picture, does it look like yours?
Note the P4 Titan 533 printed in the centre.
This is a pretty modern board with up to date specs and Intel/ Realtek chipset
All the drivers are available on the link I gave.

However your Everest gives an SIS chipset?

It also gives two sound systems - SIS and Creative
and two graphics systems - SIS and ATI.

So what gives?

Also if you can't load any programs, how did you get Everest to work. (Good idea though)

 

I'm also interested in how this happened. Did you do this as it is not the default setting and can't be done directly from within Windows. You can only do it by the method I gave.

 

I haven't touched the boot file, just viewed it in ms config.

The Mobo is deffinately Giga-Byte P4 Titan 533 Model GA-81sr533, that what is printed on the board. Giga-Byte P4 Titan 533 is printed between PCI slots.GA-81sr533 is printed to the right of the cpu heatsink.

Chipset is SIS printed on chip

Has built in SIS audio that doesn't seem to function. also has a creative PCI128 card that isn't functioning. For audio at the moment I have a creative usb sound card attached.

If I said that programs won't load I apologize. I meant that programs load but will close anywhere from instantly to an hour or two later.

I've included a snapshot of the mobo in 5 megapixels for a little detailed shot.

 

about the graphics the AGP card is ATI. As for the SIS I don't know. The Only graphic options for the mobo is AGP and PCI. The only ports on the mobo are 2 usb, 2 ps2, 2 serial, audio jacks, and a game port.

 

OK the picture I now have for the motheboard matches yours and the Everest printout.

We are settled on a Gigabyte GA-8SR533.
This is an older, simpler motherboard, with an SIS chipset.

Gigabyte have a helpful automated download centre that will analyse your motherboard and update the drivers.

http://tw.giga-byte.com/Support/Motherboard/DownloadCenter_List.aspx

You can also manually download the handbook and all the drivers from Gigabyte.
Have you done this?

If you onboard audio and video is not working perhaps it is turned off in bios.
Or do you simply not have the drivers?

You did originally say

I think this puts a different slant on things.

I am still curious as to the origins of this motherboard.

Why have you got separate audio / video cards?
Did you add these?
More importantly did you add these to a bios that was set up for a different output?

Or did the original maker add these to a partly functional motherboard?

I think we really need to go right back to the beginning on this.

 

Did the automated downloader. All drivers reccomended are currently installed.

Onboard audio driver I installed a couple of days ago, but still doesn't work.
Will check with BOIS if I can find it, not an expert with BIOS but I have a novice experience. Board has no onboard video except for an AGP.

As for the origns of the NOBO, unknown. Was in it when i bougt the system.

The PCI sound card was added in, and I just haven't extracted it yet for some reason. will take it out in a minute when i check the bios.
USB sound card I plugged in for sound until i figure out the onboard issue.