Looking for a UPS - suggestions?

Rampage III Formula motherboard
i7-970 3.2GHz (6 core/12 thread)
Corsair H80 water cooling
BFG 1000w 36A (BFGR1000WEXPSU) power supply
OCZ 6GB DDR3 (OCZ3P1866C9LV2G 6GB triple channel RAM kit)
MSI GTX 560ti Twin Frozr II 2GB GDDR5/OC
1TB SATA Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM


Any suggestions on what I would need as far as UPS power goes?

 

Anything will do. It really depends on how long you plan on keeping the system online after a power outage. That includes ISP modem/gateway, router, network switches, computers, monitors.

Really need a list of what all you have on your Network, as to what is best for you. I am using this UPS for just my ATT U-Verse Gateway, two network switches, a Lenovo ix-2, Cirrago NUS2000 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7660256

 

Network: PK5001Z modem/wireless router combo

1 PC specs listed in original post
2 monitors, one's an Acer S200HL, the other is an Envision Aoc H170L

That's all I would need to keep up with the USP, and the time frame needed is really only a few minutes... Power flickers a lot in the winter for a second each time causing shut-downs.

Not worried about long power outages because chances are they happen in the middle of the night (computer is off) or the middle of the day (computer is off) and if I am home for them I can shut down the PC.

 

Again, do you want just the computer with no networking gear or ISP modem, or do you also want a UPS to back up the ISP modem and networking gear? If you want both, you are looking at sinking at least $600 for two UPS systems, or one large enough to drive all equipment long enough.

Now there are whole house solutions that will go for as long as 12 hours, but they utilize multiple Deep Cycle Marine batteries to come up with the amount of Kwh that you need for the time you need it. Then add in a method of recharging those batteries, either through solar or Genset, if you are off the grid for a long period.

As for your problem, I would be calling in an electrician and the Power Company to figure out why you are getting so many brownouts, not by just placing a bandaid to compensate for something that should have been taken care of a long time ago.

Brownouts cause electronics to have shorter lifespans, and also place stress on the lugs in the Meter where it fits into the clips, and at the breaker panel, where wires connect to bus bars and breakers..

 

I am afraid I agree with everything you said, but that. You want a "good" UPS with AVR but sadly, like computer power supplies, there are many cheap UPS on the market that are poorly designed, poorly made, and perform poorly as well - and must be avoided.

You don't need to spend $400 on a "good" UPS with AVR (though you easily can) but you must avoid the budget, entry-level models. They likely have too slow cutover times and lousy (if any) voltage regulation.

That said, I have the big brother (1500VA) version of that APC Back UPS XS on my main computer and like it very much. It protects my i7, 16Gb, SSD/HD, GTX660ti computer, all my network gear (wireless router, modem, 2 switches) AND my two 22" LCD monitor from power anomalies - the primary purpose of the UPS.

For the icing on the cake, it will provide over 30 minutes of backup power in the event of a total power outage. I say icing because the voltage regulation the UPS with AVR provides is the cake, and bread and butter (over 45 minutes if I shut off my second monitor).

Note the eXtreme PSU Calculator Lite is an excellent tool used to calculate current and predict future PSU needs. By increasing CPU Utilization and System load values to 100% and Capacitor aging to 10% you build-in a large enough buffer for future hardware upgrades and natural aging. Using the values of your hardware, the recommended PSU for your system should be 560W or greater (see "PSU note" below).

If you purchase the pro version of the calculator (and I recommend anyone who advises folks on hardware requirements to buy the pro version), it includes UPS requirements. For your system, it says 800VA is the minimum, and recommends at least 1000VA.

@Prankster - First, kudos to you for wanting an UPS. I feel ALL computers should be on a "good" UPS with AVR as surge and spikes protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords.

I agree with brownizs - you need to define your needs. In reality, as a minimum, a "good" UPS needs to (1) regulate power during high-voltage anomaly "events" (surges and spikes) AND low-voltage anomaly events (sags and dips) and (2) provide enough backup/battery power so you can "gracefully" save any open documents, exit running programs, properly shutdown Windows, then turn off the computer before you run out of battery power. Note that "graceful" shutdowns can be achieved by UPS software.

If "mission requirements" dictate your computer MUST stay up even during extended power outages, you will need to invest in much more serious (and expensive) UPS solutions.

PSU Note: While you have a 1000W PSU, understand the PSU will draw from the wall (or UPS) only what it needs to power the computer, plus ~15 - 30% due to PSU inefficiencies. So, for example, if your computer needs 300W, your computer will draw 300W from your PSU, and your PSU will draw from the wall 500 + another 45 to 90W (wasted in the form of heat) regardless if the PSU is a 650W supply or a 1000W supply.

Another note - your BFG supply is NOT 80+ Certified so you should figure it is not very efficient, thus the 30% value I noted.

 

The brown outs are a result of heavy snow storms and high winds; I live about three miles outside of town in the country and I am sure everyone in my area experiences the same outages.

Anyway, the only things I would like to keep up is the PC, modem, and a single monitor (200HL) and it only needs to be able to stay up for 10-15 minutes max during an outage.

I am on my phone right now, I will take a look at the calculator when I get home.

I know all too well about inefficiency issues in electronics as well as power usage due to heatsinking, thanks for the replies thus far.

Matt

 

Your best bet would be to invest into a generator. Browouts are not caused by high winds and heavy snow storms, they are caused by a fluctuation of voltage from say 90 volts to 120 in a certain period of time.

What you are having is loss of power in those situations. Get the one that I linked, which is the one that I have. It will stay up with the gear I listed, for around 2 hours, if I start shutting down non-essential stuff.

 

eXtreme PS Calc says 601w with my setup; Obviously this does not include my monitor.

 

@Digerati
I have a question. I have been using apc 500va for the past 12 years. It died last month. At about the same time I had to change my smps. I changed to Circle brand smps. with AFC. But while searching for reviews I came across a report that ups, being pure sine wave, should not be used with smps with AFC. So, right now, I do not have ups. What is your opinion regarding this sine wave and problems?
Thank you in advance.

 

For the average home computer, to get you through those "Oooops!" that can happen at any time, even on a clear day, get an APC brand of UPS in the 500va or better range.

Run time is dependent on two things....
1. the amount of hardware you need the UPS to keep running.
2. the VA rating and size of the battery in the UPS.

We just did a thread on adding more batteries to a UPS for extending run-time.
I have one 600va UPS running off of two car batteries. It will run for several hours without the batteries needing recharging @ a power draw of about 200W.

I have another 550va UPS running off of one 230CCA tractor battery. It will run for about an hour before it shuts down. It only backs up my Cable Modem, Router and Magic Jack.

APC is the only brand that I've had any luck with, using batteries larger than the OEM Gel Cell.

Watch for sales at stores like "TigerDirect.com". You can get some really good deals on APC ups's.

I've had several "Cyber Power" UPS's and have also had problems with them.
So I would not recommend that brand. I now stay 100% with APC Brand.

Cheers Mates!
:cool

 

Thank You. So I can disregard this sine wave etc.? I need about 400w. and was thinking about the new 600VA from apc. What is your opinion?

 

See my link of the one that I posted at Tigerdirect.com, which is the exact one I have. It has now gone done in price even further, then when I got it a month and a half ago.

 

I checked the site. Could not find the thread in faq. Anyway I can not pay in dollars. There is a subsidiary here, in India. If it is good enough for you, it will be best for me. But there are adverse report about that here. One even described it as junk. Hope yours was a good review.
Thank you for the prompt reply.

 

My APC 1500 has a nice LCD monitor display that tells me all sorts of things, like the present load. I have two 22" Samsung monitors on my UPS and I just turned off monitor 2 and my load dropped 35W. I turned off (or rather, put in standby - I have to unplug to completely turn off) Monitor 1 and it dropped another 35W. I would say allocating 40W per monitor is a safe value (if not a huge big screen). And since you probably want to see what's going on, you need at least one monitor on UPS too. Note these are LCD monitors and not CRT. CRT monitors should not be on a UPS, unless a big UPS.

Yeah, brownouts are caused by excessive loads (or load redistribution by the power company during heavy use) on the power grid. Not by winds or snow weighing down lines. But make no mistake, a extended low-voltage events can be very stressful on electronics as compensating for brown-outs can result in a lot of heat generation - and heat is the bane of all electronics.

@shashikumar bhat - please note this is NOT your thread and hijacking another's thread for your problems is not good forum etiquette. If you want to pursue your line inquiry beyond this, please start your own thread with your specifics so WIPrankster and his issue is not pushed aside. In that way, you will get the undivided attention you deserve in your thread, just as WIPrankster deserves here, in his thread.

Understand almost all computer power supplies are switching supplies.

This really is dependent on the specific UPS where the better quality UPS are able to deal with things like this better than budget models. The problem arises in the monitoring circuits detecting an unclean signal and tossing the UPS into battery mode all the time. Not a good thing. Or worse, causing the UPS to shut down to prevent constant switching between battery and line. Also not a good thing.

My advice is to download and read the UPS manual before buying. Note many UPS don't like surge and spike protectors on their output (and/or input) side either.

Also note that most UPS do NOT output pure sinewaves - only the most expensive do. But that is not a problem here (assuming you don't have a cheap, generic PSU in your computer).

Sadly, like many things manufactured these days, better quality and desired features are only included in the bigger (and more expensive) models. For this reason, I recommend you stick with at least 1000VA.

Do note the "power factor" must be used to calculate your UPS needs. Power factors are as low as .65 with around .75 to .8 being typical.

So note 600VA x .75pf = 450W, which IMO, is not enough for your system - especially since your PSU is not 80+ Certified.

 

Corectomundo!

No PSU that I've used in the past 20 years has required a sine wave input.
Even the little modular supplies used for phone chargers, etc, do not require it.
So the modified square wave output of the common UPS serves nicely.

Yes, too many people confuse VA with Watts. Ain't so McGee!
Like the man said, wattage may be as low as only 75% of the VA rating.

I use a little, inexpensive device, called a "Kill A Watt" to accurately measure how much wattage my system, or any device, requires.
http://www.walmart.com/search/searc...108&wl4=&veh=sem&_be_switches=reviews_flag:on

(that link is to Walmart....I hope it works here.)

Buying a UPS of the correct size gets a lot easier when you know exactly how many watts you need. The "Kill A Watt" also measures Voltage, amperage and watt-hours.
It's just a handy little device to have around the house or shop.

Cheers Mates!
:cool

 

That kill-a-watt meter is nice, but many UPS, like the APC 1500, have a display that does the same thing. Of course, with the separate meter being much more mobile than a 10 ton UPS, you can easily use it to check other things in the house - like how many 100s of watts your DVR is consuming while supposedly in stand-by!

Note too, PowerChute - APC's software that comes with their UPS (that support monitoring) let's you plug in how much your power company charges per kilowatt hour - so you can see how much your computer is costing you to run.

 

@ The Shadow
It is not the input but output of a ups which is pure sine wave according to that article.
Anyways I think I shall stop responding lest someone may think I am spamming.
Thanks to all for your valuable inputs
Regards.

 

No one will think that unless you start posting links to sites, products, or services you have a personal financial interest in.

We just need to remember when WIPrankster returns (if we did not scare him off), this is his topic and his questions take priority.

What article? Got a link? Again, it is typically high-end UPS that produce a pure sinewave output. These are often used for medical or precision measuring equipment.

 

Thank You.

 

Haha you guys can't get rid of me that easily!

I'll have to look into picking one up!

I guess that's an option, albeit an expensive one. I might as well pick up the kill-a-watt (or something similar) to measure my needs, otherwise I could just go overkill on the UPS to begin with and forget I ever had a question on what to get to begin with.

Good info.

 

1000 - 1500VA is not overkill. And you really don't have to guess. The PSU calculator will tell you your PSU requirements. And your monitor and other devices will have the power consumption printed on their supplies. You just need to add them up - then remember to add a bit more for a buffer.

 

I was not trying to say that the suggestions were overkill, simply that I could go with an overkill option, or in your words a buffer; a rather large buffer.


Is there a standard in ratings for UPS' or does it truly simply boil down to the quality of one brand over another?

 

Standards? Not other than required for all electrical devices by the government, and of course, "standard" power plugs in the back.

And certainly no single brand consistently makes the top quality across every size and price point either. But APC has consistently proven itself to make quality UPS. But I have had good luck with CyberPower, Belkin, and even the GeekSquad branded UPS I used on my home theater/big screen TV.

I do not, however, buy replacement batteries from APC as they tend to be expensive. I shop around at the various sites for the best prices (factoring in shipping) when I am ready to buy.

 

I have gotten replacement batteries for an APC from an online source at less than half the price of the "brand name" replacement,
with a three year warranty.

One repair / maintenance tech told me that he never saw a computer that was connected to an APC unit get damaged.

 

Well, I have never seen a computer connected to any UPS get damaged, so I'm not sure that statement is significant. I have seen faulty UPS before, but all they did was kill power when the facility lost power - so not very useful.

 

That is a like-4-like repair. But why waste good money, if you can't improve the UPS at the same time?
UPS batteries are Never big enough to begin with.

I just "Improved" an APC UPS for a friend of mine. He parked his 'server' at my house, for a faster Internet connection, and we have almost daily power outrages here, so a good UPS is a must have.
Two weeks ago, we had a five hour total outage.
I had several UPS's that ran the entire five hours, with larger batteries.

So to improve the UPS that will back up the Server, I just removed the little Gel Cell and replaced it with a much larger battery.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g90/DrWho1943/Computer%20Stuff/BatUpgrade_zps81e8b202.jpg

I left the old battery sitting there, for comparison.

The new battery should be good for at least one hour run time.

:cool

 

For the whole house, right? For sure, I would think a good hour or more - with monitor and full networking. Not exactly pretty but you do what you gotta do.

 

The "Server" being backed up by the UPS in my post, is a small Dell desktop with a 17" LED monitor, normally in Sleep Mode.

The little PC works great, with XP, one HD and only 2gig's of ram.
Nothing exotic. It's the bare minimum to function as a server.

I do need to pull the plug on that UPS tonight and see how long it will run on that new battery, before it goes to sleep.
I'm hoping for at least an hour, maybe longer.

 

I do that (pull the plug) every month or so any way, just to make sure it all works well. If the UPS immediately starts yelling (non-stop beeps) I know the batteries are nearly shot.

 

That does separate the Technician from the appliance operator.

The Tech, will perform regular maintenance on his equipment, where the Appliance Operator will just ignore it till it fails.

Some UPS's will shut down due to internal temperature, even if the battery still has lots of life left in it. That so sucks!

That wouldn't happen if UPS's had fan cooling. The BIG ones do.
Keep the temp down and provide enough 12v, and a UPS should run forever.

 

That too is typically a sign the battery, or a cell is failing, drawing too much current, causing the UPS charging and regulator circuits to over heat and shutdown out of self protection (hopefully). Some UPS do have fans but many don't. And with a properly designed system with large passive (no fan) cooling, don't need fans.

I don't like fans in UPS because fans pull in heat trapping dust that is then difficult to clean out. Plus, fan bearings wear out eventually, and start making noise - not something I want to hear when watching a movie on HT system. A fan in an UPS is not a sign of quality and may be a sign of inferior design - using an underrated (and a couple pennies cheaper) heat sink, for example.

 

Just a note, I also have a APC backups xs 1500. It is nice, but I think I need to upgrade it.

 

Why? That's a huge supply, with great regulation and extremely quick reaction times.

When I run your numbers (from your sig) through the calculator using bloated values (high end board, 100% CPU utilization, 2 10K drives, 4 120mm fans, 2 external drives, 100% system load, and 10% capacitor aging), I get minimum UPS rating of 1266VA with a recommended UPS of 1500VA. So it seems you are right where you should be.

Do understand, UPS batteries need to be replaced every 3 years or so. But that is a user task, and much cheaper than getting a whole new UPS.