Multiple babies

[FONT=&quot]Hey all...I'm sure this has been discussed at some point and time on this site, but I just need to get something off my chest and get a few questions answered.

OK, 1st question; does anyone know why it seems that everyone is getting fertility treatments and having multiple babies? I know fertility treatment has been around for a while but it seems to me that it's a new fad.:cool

OK, 2nd question; is it my imagination or is it that once the embryos are implanted, they 'all' take? And if so, is this healthy for a woman to carry more than 3 babies at a time?:confused

OK, 3rd and last question; Why is it now ok to have these babies and then put them and yourself/families on display or exploit the situation.:-o [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I’m sorry, but I must say that I have no problems with people having children. They can have as many as they want as long as they can take care of them (without exploiting them). The problem I see is, women have been having babies forever may it be 1 or 2, heck 3 at the most. But it now seems that some women or couples have decided that since I’m/we are going to have a family let’s see how much I/we can get out of this. 1st it was the show about Jon & Kate + 8, then it was 16 and counting the Duggar’s family (it went from 16 to 17 and now it’s 18 and counting), (ok, most of them are single births). Next up is table for 12, which is about another family dealing with multiples and how many loaves of bread they use for lunch:yum. Oh, let us not forget the ongoing saga about Nadia and her 8 babies. At present, I don’t think she has a TV deal, but I know it was not far from her mind when she had “all” of her embryos implanted. Unfortunately, hers turned in a different way, only because she’s not married as the others are. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]OK…just 1 more question…is it me, or is the world that bad, that people now have to have multiple children in order to make money. Is it the economy or is it a fad????:wave[/FONT]

 

Well, the blue font is hard for me to read. Personal responsibility, I am all for That. :-D

 

Well I knew of a family with 12 children and the mother served breakfast, lunch and dinner at the stipulated time. If some of the kids showed up late, there was none left and the mother would not make any additional food until the next meal. Tons of loaves of bread and all other food disappeared in few minutes time. The family was only supported by the father's income, yet all flourished.

That happened decades ago and don't think a middle class family at this current time would be able to support so many kids on their own.

To want to get children without the ability to provide for them should be discouraged strongly.

 

Fad? No, the lady who is has hab 8 kids at once is mentally,emotionally,and now financially unstable.

There is a "plan b pill". Now that is crazy.

I wonder how it differs from the ru86 and morning after pill?

 

Oma speaks with great wisdom.
"To want to get children without the ability to provide for them should be discouraged strongly."

 

Sorry all hit the wrong color key

 

You know Oma, if what you said happened today CPS would be out there trying to file charges of neglect on the parents

 

Bugg, one of them kids said to me that they learned the lesson quickly enough to be one time for their meals. As I said before that happened decades ago. Apparently the mother said that their home wasn't a restaurant. Difficult enough to feed a family of 14 at a certain time isn't it? As far as I know things went pretty smoothly there despite the dozen kids.

I agree that currently, perhaps one couldn't get away with it.

 

Ah fred, but this is the new era of at least the American lifestyle. Within 4 years our new motto will be "To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability."

I have strong beliefs on how children should be brought into the world, beliefs that I probably shouldn't share here, but if you prove that you can't care for your children, someone should be found who can. If you have more, why not put you in jail.. (For starters)

 

In China, there was a one child policy introduced in 1979. It was apparently a short term measure to combat the growing population. One quarter of the earth's populace was Cinese, occupying only 7% of the world's arable land. There are some get out clauses where they can have more than one ankle biter.
Non compliance can result in fines, confiscation of belongings and even dismissal from their job.

 

That will never happen in this country....

 

I'm aware of the things things they do in China with the one child per family thing, but that's a different world than what I was talking about.

The angle I was coming from is that if it's a crime to go to the grocery store and steal things, even if it's do or die for your family, I don't see how it's different than having more children just so that you can reap the governmental rewards from the welfare system, food stamps, or things of that nature.

I agree that there is SOME need for some of the programs, people have kids and lose jobs, sure. What I was saying is that as an adult if you act irresponsibly, you're generally punished. I think purposely having more people in your house (period) than you can obviously afford, is irresponsible.

If you have 4 kids and are married, with a steady cash flow until suddenly you lose a job, or something else happens, you should be able to draw from the programs you've helped support by working your little butt off. If you're 16, hooked on crack and drop out of high school when you get pregnant, I'd even forgive that. BUT if you then move out of the house, do everything you can to NOT get a job and better yourself ending up pregnant again, someone should step in.

Don't get me wrong, it would never happen in America, and it most likely shouldn't, but it's one of those things where if the possibility is there, it might lend itself to a better situation.

I also think that things like school shootings would be different if when some punk attacked a school, they caught him and drug him out in front of all the tv cameras and shot the idiot, some of those little ruffians might have a light go on in their heads. Again, it'd never happen. I don't even need rebutted on that one. :major

 

Ok Paxton , I think it's time you went to your happy place.:guns:guns:banghead:banghead

 

This is the point I was intending to draw attention to.

 

Devils advocate time.....
some people may say because of their religion any form of birth control is prohibited. So if there is no birth control used then, there is a good chance a baby is going to come from the union of the two. So do you now Charge the woman with a crime for having her 6th child with no income.

 

Absolutely, she'd be lucky to have 6, but in a marriage I'd charge both. The state is clearly separate from the church, and although you can practice whatever religion you want here for the most part, there are always lines.

If my religion was against the use of capital punishment, and I murdered and was going to be put to death, do you think anyone's going to listen to that at a substantial government level?

 

OK... obviously the idiot they're calling "Octo-mom" now is an exception to a rule, but to the best of my understanding, multiple embryos are implanted to ensure that at least one takes. As time has progressed and science has improved the process, we are seeing more and more multiple births.

I've talked to a couple of people in the fertility field about this and they said that they still use multiple embryos because if they plant one and it doesn't take, too many people feel they should sue over it (considering that they are spending several thousand bucks for the procedure)

Personally, I think that people need to be psychologically screened before this process, not to mention a complete background screening to ensure that they can take care of what they bring into this world.

IMHO, that idiot in California needs to be taken out back and beat severely with a hose, while the kids are adopted out to nice families who will actually take care of them...

~C

 

I guess this case is different than most because she has no means of taking care of them. There have been plenty of multi births over the last 10 years or so but this case is way out there.
psych screening should have been done and should be done for any and all invetro cases.

 

You anti socialists are just nutty! :-D The government just wants to 'help' you.

Sorry Pax, couldn't resist. :-D

 

OK, OK, OK...I guess I've started something here. Nevertheless, I understand why they implant so many embryos, I know that the chances are slim to none that only 1 will take. I really don’t have a problem with that. My problem is at some point you know there are at least 2 to 3 heart beats. Usually, the 4th, 5th, or 6th heart beat is not present until the 3rd or 4th visit. At this point, just say no more… why you ask? Because women, as great as we are, are NOT build to carry a ‘litter’ and a litter is what it is at that point. Besides that, these babies are most likely to have some sort of health problems (which is another bill in itself). These babies are all fighting for nutrients and nutrition and again, as great as we are, we cannot give 6 to 8 babies what they really need. This is why most of them are premature and on ventilators because they do not get all of what is needed and the human body just can’t take it.:tired

OK…with all of that above, whether you choose to keep 10 embryos (which is YOUR chose), why do you now need a TV show? This was your chose to do this and now it seems that the only way you can take care of them is to try to get a TV show.

To the families that are out there and are really trying to have a family with 1 or 2 maybe even 3 kids, I don’t have an issue (as long as you can take care of them… as someone said). But do not exploit these children, because they did not ask for this kind of life it's hard enough being a kid anyway:cry.

 

Fred...You know as well as the rest of us that the government is in NO shape to take care of anyone else. They are trying as hard as they can to get out of this mess:-o. 8, 10, or 12 more kids is not something anyone in this country needs right now. I know I can't afford to take care of anyone else or their kids:cry. I'm barely taking care of the teenager I have and he have the nerve to want a car:banghead....he must be living under a rock and not know what this economy looks like right now.

Yeah...I know they say spend, spend, spend but I need something to spend.

 

So BO is not going to take care of us? :-D Sorry Huskies. Sometimes I joke when I should not.

 

You'll get used to Fred in time, Huskies. He uses the lowest form of wit at times....

 

You are starting to come around Joey, you used a 6 letter word instead of a 4 letter word to describe my 'wit'.

Huskies, sorry, I do have an odd sense of humor, no offense meant.

 

I can assure you, Ain't nothing wrong with Fred. Are we seriously going to be jumpy for the next 4 years about everything said about the Teleprompter-in-Chief?

Wait, wait.. He is Barrack Hussein Obama.... Since Al Gore obviously invented the internet, do you think Barrack had anything to do with BHO's? LOL

 

Teleprompter is tracking your IP Pax... Watch out for the helicopters!

 

Not to worry Fred, I live in an area with very strict whirlybird parking regulations.. Here's one that recently got turned away..

 

I guess I really started something here . Because this has turned into something else altogether. I understand that Fred is a "joker" but we should also know that 'BO' as Fred refers to our Commander and Chief:major is not responsible for the mess that this country is in. I hope we all know the situation of this country has been brewing for a while nowrolleyes. I hope we all know whomever step into that seat knew it was a hot seat and SOMETHING has to be done. Fred, humor is humor and I can laugh with the best of themroflmao(as long as it's in good taste).

Paxton...I'm sorry I must be slipping, but this statement went over my head..'be jumpy for the next 4 years about everything said about the Teleprompter-in-Chief:confused'.

 

*shrug* I voted for the other guy. As for the children, I think welfare should have a cut off point of 6. If you have more fine, but we're not paying for anything over 6.

 

I have thoughts to add, but noticed this is not the Hot Button area. Huskies, some of us jokingly refer to BO's teleprompter to be the actual leader. Walking away from the keyboard before I type anything more than a smiley in here. :-D

 

You're aiming quite high Triaxx. If I'd be the government, I would cut off child support, bonuses, food stamps if having more than 2 children for those in welfare. If anyone wants to have more than 2 children, well let the parent(s) take care of them or get out off welfare. Of course, not retroactive. I'm pretty sure that this would have an effect. Harsh? You bet!! It's not fair to the children and irresponsible to raise kids one cannot afford.

There is no excuse for unwanted pregnancies either if one cannot afford it. Birth control is available for unwanted pregnancies for over 4 decades, so there's no excuse for that either. Hehe, being the government I'd even pay for birth control. For the religious..... abstinence or whatever.

 

Originally Posted by Triaxx2 http://forums.majorgeeks.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
As for the children, I think welfare should have a cut off point of 6. If you have more fine, but we're not paying for anything over 6.


I agree 150%....

 

Fred, Thanks for the translation. But just one other question...I know this is not the Hot Button area but why not add your thought. It seems I have inadvertently started a Hot Topic and you've been nice to me thus far. Or do I need to go to the big people forum=Hot Button Topics to really see you in action:guns...roflmao

 

Hot Button is an area with less moderation. The regular Lounge is more restricted, as it should be. Please, join, post your thoughts and opinions.

If you would like to start your own topic, or join another, here is a link. http://forums.majorgeeks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58

Lots of fun if you like debating and such. I won't add my thoughts because this is not the forum for those thoughts. :-D

 

Just read all the posts...

I study psychology at my University and in my "Attachment and Relationships" class regarding infant attachment, we learned exactly how many problems these eight children are going to have! Besides the health issues that they will have (and be more susceptible to in later life), it's a strong possibility that they they will have many psychological issues throughout their lives if they don't have a healthy and secure attachment to their mom (or a different, constant parental figure). Psychological issues that may cause behavior problems... (Think: school shootings?) Of course none of that's a guarantee, but it's just another problem that the children will face.

I agree with many of the restrictions you guys have already mentioned! And what ever happened to condoms? Do religions allow that? And the doctor is also at fault in the "Octo-mom"s problem as well, as he was legally only allowed to implant 3 embryos, and he went ahead and implanted all 6 of them. And whoever said women aren't designed to have "litters" (which is exactly what that is) is right on!! Something has to be done about all the kids. We already have population problems, and having taxpayers pay for them is whole other issue! :mad

 

Fox news

You'll hear the term elsewhere if you listen for it.

 

Some religions, not to name names, only preach abstinence. So a condom goes against their views as with birth control. Plus in this case it wasn't sex that got her this way..

Not sure why the Docs did that. I'm not sure if it was a money issue, but it comes back to; Where did she get the money to have this procedure in the first place? If i recall, she didn't have a job. Did a family member pay for it, even though knew she had 6 kids already? Is the financial backer, if they knew, equally responsible if civil penalties are levied? Can they be labeled as an accomplices and make them pay for this as well? [/QUOTE]

So in closing, is the medical profession pushing this, to test the waters to see how far can they go? Is the next litter 9 or 10 babies? Will the back lash from this and the negative press stop parents from making the move to try to have multiple births?

I think I asked 8 questions, don't worry about answering them I think they are mostly rhetorical confused

 

Escapecat, Buggabear is right, some religions do not believe in any type of birth control...condoms included. As far as the doctor implanting 'all' of the embryos, it may have been a money thing or thinking only 2 or 3 will take. But as I recall, Nadia's mom asked the very same question why 'all of them' and her comment was...they are all "MY" children and I wanted all of them. Because they were going to destroy the embryos if she didn't do something with them. As a professional the doctor should have known better to implant all at one time, as a OB/GYN he should know that women do not carry litters of babies our uterus is not build for that, so maybe it was a money thing or media stunt.

Buggabear, I don't think your question is rhetorical...everyone is wondering where the money came from in order for her to have this preceedure (including her own Mom). The answer to this question is, whoever paid for this preceedure/stunt should be accountable for taking care of these 8 excuss me...14 children:crybaby:cry. They were all implanted. As far as the backlash, I don't think there will be a backlash because some foolish person:foolishwill either try to have a litter of babies for a media stunt or go out and kill their babies for the same media attention...but that's a totally different topic.

I think I need to go to the Hot Button area for this topic...don't get me started on that one:mad

 

Fred....I'm on my way:strong...thanks for the invite:clap

 

If I am not mistaken, she got the money from a work disability.

 

I think we also need to remember that these religions that are against contraception of any kind would also more than likely be against artificial insemination, or the planting of embryo's when it came down to it. I don't know how they could tell one group to have kids if they're going to have sex, and the other not to have so many all at once. The religion would probably tell someone that when God was ready they would have the child.

I don't truly know that to be correct, but offer it as a different angle.

On one hand, it's remarkable that this octo-mom was able to carry eight babies, sometimes I wonder how I'm going to be able to eat enough for just me.

On the other hand, she should be responsible enough to realize she's not going to be able to provide for these kids, at least at the moment.

 

What I meant was pay for a maximum of six. If you loose your job, we'll pay for any children you have, including any you might be pregnant with at the time, but if you get pregnant again, you're on your own for it.

 

That was my point, I think there is something wrong with her and the doc who did her pre surgery history should have figured that she already had six and why did she want more. His Hippocratic oath should have forced him to order physc console before he went forward with the surgery to implant. Yes they are her embryos but with no means to take care of them they become all of our responsibility

 

Again, Buggabear, I agree with you. But when you have eggs frozen, they are kept for a certain amount of time and after that time you have a chose of what you would like to do with them. Most sane people would do 1 or 2 things...have 1 no more than 3 implanted, donate them to someone who needs them (and can take care of them) or lastly have them destroyed.

One day there will be another chose...research. but that's another topicLOL

Paxton, I agree with you 155%. I don't believe that a religion would except artificial insemination if it is in it's strictest mode...please, correct me if I'm wrongrolleyes. I had a girlfriend who used the rhythm method for years (now has 4 children) because she was not allowed to use 'ANY' other man made type of birth control:cry. Oh, did I mention she's not married...and this is why she wanted the pill. But this is a 'STRICT' religion and they would rather you have 18 kids instead of using birth control or getting a abortion.

Wow, Fred, are you kidding me. I must have missed the Today Show that day...may have been traveling for work. OK, so how I claim workman's comp for missing the Today Show...when clearly, this was such an important show, to tell me the kind of money I can get to be artificially inseminated with 8 embryos. OMG...you mean to tell me workman's comp pays out that kind of money?????confusedconfused:confused

 

http://a.abcnews.com/TheLaw/story?id=6806753&page=1

Can't really comment on it in this section of the site.

 

she should have been the patient, maybe thats where she finally lost her mind. thanks for the article Fred

 

They should look into that, maybe she escaped and stole some people's kids. :-D