my p1-133 fujitsu ergo rpo's are all dying one at a time.

Hi,
I live in Kenya and unfortunately for us in Africa we are a bit behind in terms of technology so we are still using what the west has thrown in the garbage bin.

I am currently using about 14 fujitsu ergo pro e452 desktops in my offices.I am a little computer literate and also a trained electronic engineer so i like playing around with the machines myself.The machines are 166Mhz/64mb ram/40 gb hard drives ( we are using maxblast on the maxtor hard drives).We are running windows 98 SE on them.

My problem is one that i am sure one of you must have seen before so i am begging for some help here.

The machines keep dying on me. I can explain in more detail. when i power on the faulty machine the led's on the keyboard flash showing me the motherboard is trying to go into POST. The monitor stays on standby( led is on orange) and does not switch on thus showing me any error messages.( sorry but the video is on board.)There no audible beeps at all. The only other card we have connected to these machines are sound cards.

I am not sure of how to proceed and where the problem could be. I am sure it is not the hard drives as we can connect those to the remaining machines as slaves and they work.Please help if you can.

I wish to thank all of you in advance for taking the time to read this post.

regards
Vishal

 

According to what I've read in the manual, which you can download in .PDF format here:

http://www.fujitsu-siemens.co.uk/rl...upport/ergopro/Handbooks/ErgoPro/Ergo_e_x.pdf

those systems use a "Real Time Clock" chip, which would probably be black in color, shaped like a rectangle, and mounted into a socket, in order to keep the date and time, and provide power for the CMOS settings. They LOOK like an IC, though internally, they are in fact batteries, and work no differently than the now commonly used coin-cell batteries mounted to the motherboard, such as the CR-2032.

I did not see any listing of the brand or type of RTC mounted on the motherboard; the original Dallas Real Time Clock was copied by other companies, and sold as Houston Real Time Chips (and probably with other names as well). I spoke to one of the Dallas RTC engineers back in the late '90's, who told me about the Houston RTC knock-offs. I got the impression they infringed on the Dallas RTC design (it was difficult to tell one from the other at a glance), and eventually, both types of RTC were supplanted by the use of coin-cells, which were cheaper and more widely available.

These links will show you what some of them look like:

http://www.sensi.org/~alec/mips/images/acer_pica_io_5.jpg

http://www.epower2go.biz/ccp51/media/images/category/DalSemi24PinDIP.jpg

http://i16.ebayimg.com/03/i/06/a2/de/71_1.JPG

You'll have to locate one of the Dallas RTC units on a motherboard; look for the number which will indicate the type of replacement you'll need; it will have a number similar to "DS1287" or possibly "DS1288", though there might be other versions I'm not familiar with.

The RTCs can be DIFFICULT to remove from the sockets they are mounted into, but they are NOT soldered in, they are press-fit. The Dallas RTC mounts into a socket which IS soldered to the motherboard, be careful NOT to damage or desolder the socket in the process of removing the RTC from it.

This image will give you an idea of what the socket that holds the RTC looks like:

http://www.rp3.com/Accessories/Real_Time_Clocks___Battery_Bac/dallas3.gif

If you DO damage the socket (or the motherboard) while removing the RTC, you'll have more work and expense ahead of you, and I imagine you'd prefer to avoid that.

Well, I hope this information helps you; I wish you luck finding a source for the RTCs you need. They are CLAIMED to last for five to ten years before needing replacement, and it seems the ones you have are reaching end-of-life, so I suggest you start looking for a new supply right away, while some of them are still functioning.

Again, good luck with this; you might find a supplier somewhere in Africa, but you might also have to look to Europe (maybe Fujitsu-UK can help you) or the Middle East. I imagine it will not be easy, but I don't see an alternative, unless you want to scrap all of those units and replace them...

 

A really informative post, malware killer. Thank you for your effort.
Having worked in Africa I can appreciate visu_kenya's dilemma.

By the way welcome, visu_kenya, to the MG family.
You are the first member I have noticed from Africa.
Apologies to any other African member if I missed them out.

I worked for 18 month's in Sierra Leone, from '92-94.

The EPSON luggable laptop (?), that I carted over there was the most modern PC they had there at that time. A 386SX, if I remember correctly. Bazza

 

Dear Malware killer,
thanks so much for your help.I will try see how i can try a working RTc chip into a dead motherboard and see if it boots up.
I am a little confused and was hoping for a clarification from you.
The motherboards have a cmos battery(coin cells) that i can see as well. does this mean that they still need the RTC chips?
please help
thanks also to bigbazza for the welcome.

regards
Vishal

 

Hi, Vishal,

To my knowledge, if you're having these problems with GOOD coin-cell batteries onboard, you will STILL need to replace the RTC chips. I admit I was in a rush typing my first reply, so I didn't go into a LOT of detail about RTC chips. Though some techs consider them to be "glorified" batteries (batteries with extra features), they are actually more complicated devices than I've lead you to believe. I have to say that I think the simplest solution by FAR is to obtain one or two replacement RTCs, then install them and see if they resolve your problems. If so, you'll know that the RTCs can probably bring your other systems back to life. I've never seen the circuitry on that motherboard, and I haven't seen a board with an RTC since sometime in '99, so I can't give you any specifics. Of course, you could also swap a good RTC from one board into another, but you run the risk of damaging the RTC in the process, so please take your time. I realize you're an engineer, so you won't have a problem with the RTC once you pry it from the socket, but if any pins get broken, you're going to have to resolder them...

From what little I actually know about the RTCs, they are REQUIRED in the circuit; I'm not aware of ANY method for eliminating them. I imagine someone could use a working system as a prototype, and possibly fabricate a replacement wired into the RTC socket, powered by a coin-cell, but that is just pure speculation on my part.

I would suggest that you try to find only a few replacement RTCs; that should help to minimize your initial expenses. Put them into your best (non-working) systems, and let us know the results.

I wish you well with this; I've spent enough time in remote locations to know how difficult the task ahead of you is. Everytime I return to the US, I once again realize how fortunate I am to live here. Sometime within the next year, I expect to redeploy to the Middle East; in the meantime, I'm working hard, riding my motorcycle again, and enjoying my time with family and friends. My years overseas have opened my eyes to the difficulty people in other parts of the world face when trying to maintain even the most basic technology; getting parts to repair a car are difficult enough, so obtaining computer parts must be an ENORMOUS struggle.

Best of luck to you; please keep us posted on your progress. MK

bigbazza:

Thank you for that; we're both aware of the difficulties Vishal now faces, so I am going to ask that if you find an RTC supplier in your corner of the world, would you please post a link or an address here, so Vishal will have a point of contact? They might not be willing to ship to Kenya, but I don't think it can hurt for him to send a few e-mails...

Thanks again MK

 

258,000 links on Google to "Real+time+clocks" replacement. Should be something there to go on with. Bazza

http://www.google.com.au/search?num=20&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=%22Real%2BTime%2BClock%22+replacement&btnG=Search&meta=

Beware the = sign on the end of the link is not underlined (as part of the link?) despite my cutting and pasting more than once. Bazza

 

Dear Malware killer,
I have checked and re-checked the m/boards on the pc's and i am saddened to say that the motherboards DO NOT have the real time clock chip on it.
I have tried to look for it at length but have not managed to find any chip that even remotely resembles it.
I am going to remove the motherboard this wekeend and take high deifinition photo's of it so that i can post them on this forum as i being a lay man as such might be missing something.
in the meantime the motherboard that the systems have as regards the users manual is AC41683/730/741/743.I hope this helps.
Please let me know if the chips could look different in the actual motherboard.
I look forward to hearing from you.
regards
Vishal