Need Help! Power Wont Stay On

I just put together a new PC. All worked great for the first 20 hours.

Now it shuts itself off anywhere from 2 seconds to 5 minutes.

Of course I checked for over heat and auto shut off values on the motherboard, but all are normal, CPU never gets above 33c

Anyone know of a software or process that can log what is happening and diagnose the issue,

or

Does anyone have experience with an issue like this, they may have a suggestion..

Thank You So Much

 

Welcome to MG.... A list of your components would help, the more you list the more help you will get. Do you hear any 'BEEPS' at start up and any Error reports.

 

Below are the Parts.. I put this machine together and installed Vista 64, all was perfect, 20 hours later my son told me it wont stay on. Sometimes it will stay powered on and working for up to 4 or 5 minutes, but most times it powers off before Vista completes it's start up process.

I checked the heat levels of the CPU and it never gets past 33 c, so it is not auto powering down due to over heat.

I just can't figure out why it would power down when everything is brand new and was working perfect for at least 20 hours.

Biostar MCP6P-M2 Athlon X2 Barebone Kit

AMD Athlon X2 4400+ 2.3GHz OEM,
4GB Kingston DDR2-800,
ATX Mid-Tower w/ 300 Watt PSU

 

I would take a look at your PSU. My guess is that you're underpowered. Your only running 300W and something tells me that it probably came with the case. What vid card are you running? What I'm getting at is that you could possibly be trying to use more power than your PSU can comfortably put out.

 

Stubby,the PSU did come with the case, as part of the package. It was a bundle from Comp USA, so it should be enough right? I am just using the on board vid card for now, at least until this issue is resolved.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Mud

 

It's not so much the power, but rather the 'quality' I'm alluding to. The PSUs that come with these cases aren't known for their dependability or longetivity. Granted, there are exceptions to that. Is it enough power? Well, since you're using the on-board video I'd be inclined to say barely. If you plan on upgrading to a better vid card, especially some of the newer ones that require a minimum of 500 watts, you're going to need a new PSU anyway. Sorry I couldn't be of more help Mud, but I would seriously look into another PSU.

 

Hi noted this in passing so though I would add my 10C worth

Sorry, unsure of your skill level, but as your building your own you most probably assume you have some sense of whats going on regarding P.C's

Its not unusual for a power supply to provide the 5 volt and under current but the 12 volt may not, so the fans may spin but no ones home.

What i do is put my hand on the case to earth myself and on the top of the Hard disc drive and see if i can feel any vibration from it as its platters spin-up when the power is turned on. This is certainly not reccommended behaviour by the way but i havent killed an hard drive doing this

You could have a bad driver or conflict with the protected operating files, I think xp default for an issue with protected operating system files is to reboot, you may have an issue with an automatic update that has been corrupted windows might think its core o.s is being attacked and by default (if i recall) it reboots this default action can be altered sorry forget where...??

Also try checking the power options. right click on your desktop ..not on an icon... and select properties under one of the tabs there is an option for power setup..also check your bios power state something like s1 or s3..sorry dont know to much about that one..although try a safe mode boot first loadsminimal drivers...tap F8 every few seconds and you should get an option before windows logo appears. Try looking in your error logs for an assist if the unit stay stable long enough..

Also regarding these new fandangled bios's quite often there is an option to set an automatic restart or shutdown if the temp for the case or cpu gets to a users predefined temperature...this helps protect generally the over clocker type user / enthusiast from making toast of the cpu...on that note if you are comfortable with this sort of thing and have an antistatic mat or earthing strap use it...and check under the cpu and just make sure the units got thermal grease / paste / pad. Typically a white paste, pad etc although i have seen silver variants, that sits between the cpu and the heatsink and transfers heat generated by the cpu this heat can spike quite heavily at loadup when services and other apps hardware device drivers in the the unit is powering up. Be very careful and use antistatic static precautions as touching anything internally especially if its gold can lead to :confused :cry

A lot of Computer shops in the western world or their suppliers do a "burn in test" to see if the unit is stable under heavy loads usually for 24 hours prior to releasing the unit for to the client. its not unheard of for the occasional one to slip through though.

Check for IRQ conflicts as this may have a part to play, see if you can get into system restore and try an earlier restore, programs being added usually automatically create a restore point..youll find this via the stat menu / accessories / sytem tools..follow you nose from there..

lastly Stubby makes a good point about the video card this is usually a major drain.. also bear in mind that despite what your power supply is rated for, it doesnt mean that is what it can do it may only do 80% - 90% of its rating.

Also if your not too comfortable working under the hood, you probably are thats why your building it right.. take it to the shop especially if its under warranty as working or trying to repair things yourself can be an issue..oh yeah make sure there is nothing hair, bit of carpet fluff etc.. under the mobo shorting it to the case, check the slots for expansion cards remove them and try adding one at a time..see where it falls over..

somewhere online there was a guide for how much power your average HDD uses dvd cpu etc..as a guide to what sort of power supply wattage you could be looking at depending on your build but i would suggest with the amount of 4gb of ram and how many cores on the modern day cpu that you are probably overloading the power supply take it to a mates and try theirs as a cheap option or sell of your old 300w to offset the price...If all the new components are supposed to be more energy efficent can anyone explain why we need increasing power supplies of any 750W to 1000W+ for serious systems.

However i certainly wouldnt be running anything under a 500W regardless of what any ody tells me how great X is blah blah not on a dual+ core cpu system anyways..good luck:wave few things to stew over here...

I probably should edit this and tudy up but ive waffled too long gott go again good luck

 

As stubby says this could be a low power supply .. go to link below and fill in all relevant info and post back with result...................

http://carpc.kyferez.com/Tools/PSUWattageCalculator.php

 

Sadly, that is not what happens. All too often, case resellers will toss in some generic budget supply just to make a case sale. I have a pile of those supplies - good for testing fans, that's about it.

Sorry Toke, but I would not use that PSU calculator. I note it has not been updated for 3 years! It's CPU support is way outdated, as is it's GPU support. It does not list 120mm fans, and they are pretty common these days. It does not even list DDR2 - and DDR3 is out. That calculator is inadequate.

Use the eXtreme PSU Calculator Lite to determine your power supply unit (PSU) requirements. It is constantly being updated for new CPUs, GPUs, and RAM. Plug in all the hardware you think you might have in 2 or 3 years (extra drives, bigger or 2nd video card, more RAM, etc.). Be sure to read and heed the notes at the bottom of the page. I recommend setting Capacitor Aging to 30%, and if you participate in distributive computing projects (e.g. BOINC or Folding@Home), I recommend setting TDP to 100%. Research your video card and pay particular attention to the power supply requirements for your card listed on your video card maker's website. If not listed, check a comparable card (same graphics engine and RAM) from a different maker. The key specifications, in order of importance are:

1. Current (amperage or amps) on the +12V rail,
2. Efficiency,
3. Total wattage.

Then look for power supply brands listed under the "Good" column of PC Mechanic's PSU Reference List. Ensure the supplied amperage on the +12V rails of your chosen PSU meets the requirements of your video card. Don't try to save a few dollars by getting a cheap supply. Digital electronics, including CPUs, RAM, and today's advanced graphics cards, need clean, stable power. A good, well chosen supply will provide years of service and upgrade wiggle room. I strongly recommend you pick a supply with an efficiency rating equal to, or greater than 80%. Look for the 80 Plus - EnergyStar Compliant label. And don't forget to budget for a good UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation).

 

Yes apologies there mud pup p I never checked it through was in too much of a hurry this morning but Digerati has corrected for me.

 

The PSU Chart says I only Need 276 W. My PSU is 300w

I have 1 CPU, 2 Sticks DDR2 (2gb x 2) 2 - 120mm Fans, 1 IDE HDD, 1 DVD R/W, Nvidiea 7300 GS video Card (Not yet installed), 1 WIFI Card (PCI), and Nothing else..

I have swapped out HDD so it is not that, pulled the DVD Writer out, so its not that.

Any other Ideas guys, This is getting me down.

The Power Supply Has two Power lines. One is one 4 prongs, the other is the standard ATX power plug. Both need to be plugged in to get the PC to power up.

Seems that the Power Supplies I have laying around, only have the ATX plug, unless I want to pull the one from my Working HP. But since that is mine and what I am using to communicate with you, I am not going to tear it apart. Plus it is a factory machine still under warranty..

Any Suggestions I can run with, I will. Getting desperate, don't want to have to mail back all the parts.

Thanks

 

Have you scanned for malware?

This may also be caused by bad RAM. You can try one stick at a time, or you can test RAM using one of the following programs. Both require you to create and boot to a bootable floppy disk or CD to run the diagnostics. Using the floppy method is generally easier (and another reason to include floppy drives in new builds). However, the CD method is just as effective at detecting RAM problems. Allow the diagnostics to run for several passes or even overnight. You should have no reported errors.

Windows Memory Diagnostic - see the easy to follow instructions under Quick Start Information.
or
MemTest86+ (for more advanced users) - an excellent how-to guide is available here.​

 

Hey Mud Pup, I have a few ideas.

The obvious one has been pointed out. The PSU. When I worked for HP doing warranty repairs, we saw three major things when this happen. First is the psu, many times it is a bad supply especially if there isn't any indication of heat. We used (go figure) tons of the generic 300 watt supplies and many times the unit wouldn't give the appropriate power to things like the cpu fan and thus the bios would auto shut down.

Second, we saw many many processors that didn't have the appropriate amount of thermal paste (sometimes to much sometimes none at all), which can show normal temp levels at first and build up so quickly the system just shuts down all together without the user being able to test it.

Third, and lastly, it would be a bad mobo. You bought a kit, so like some other posters already somewhat noted about the psu's, the "stress test" could have been skipped.

I hope this helps.

 

I have to agree that the memory is also incredibly plausible. I would try the one stick at a time method for sure.

 

Thanks. I will give all these a try. I can swap memory out from my other unit since it is the same, and test it there.

Will try the other things and report back..

Thanks Again

 

Hi again,:wave

I sincerly think your Psu is too low, at 276 of a 300watt..if its only especially if its a cheap generic brand psu then, its likely the issue as its rated at 300watt this is never an accurate indication of what it can sustain under a load. cetainly wont handle the video possibly wouldnt even power up if installed.

As i mentioned in an ealier post its not uncommon for a psu to pull only 80% to 90% of its rating. Apparently this isnt false labeling advertising...sort of like the previous post

Take a decent brand power supply may run at say 90% -ish of rated type psu - case scenario, if it is a good brand, this means that your 276W, in this case is really at least 6watts under your current requirements..this is assuming the power feed to the pc isnt also running down long extension cables and is a relatively clean feed...either way i would suggest its border line and going to need to be upgraded at a later stage, as it wont support an expansion video card.

In your calculations did you account for the cpu being multi core//?

Sell it while its still worth something and use the money to buy a new one aim for a minimum of around 500Watt-ish like another helpful member has posted. - remember to factor in video card your and a potential upgrade to it before purchasing the psu...L8r guy:wave.

 

No way. Most are only 70% efficient. The best are 80 - 85%.

However, your other points are true, EXCEPT for the fact the eXtreme PSU Calculator takes all that into consideration. So while I agree 276W sounds like a small amount - PSU marketing folks have many convinced nothing short of 500W will do. That is simply not true. Even the biggest CPUs "only" draw 130W. The biggest graphics cards can draw more than that, but not the 7300 mentioned here. So 276W will leave little wiggle room for future expansion, but it is plenty for what is here - ASSUMING good quality and stable power.

 

Hi people:wave

Thanks for the headsup Digerati.:cool

My post was only an approximation "90%-ish", I will be more clear in future posts.

Following Digerati suggestion of losing 15% (in the best case scenario a good psu producing a max 85%) then this equates to minus 15W for every 100W the psu is rated or minus 45W for this scenario.

Further on from this thought process, if from a 300 Watt it equals minus 15W X per 100 watts or 3 x 15W = 45W and the equation becomes 300W - 45W.

In this scenario the power is now producing 255 Watts max. The calculator, reffered to earlier - which I know nothing about having never used, suggested a 276W was requried. This in turn implies that "on a good brand psu" best case scenario this pc would be drawing more than 20W than what it could sustain under a constant maximum load... I'm not implying this is a 100% fix for the issue, but certainly a consideration.

It would be interesting if the unit would be more stable in safe mode...as it may possibly? be on the verge of the required power requirement given the above scenario?

Have you managed to resolve this issue mud pup p?:wave

 

Wow,
Thanks for all the great Ideas.

PROBLEM IS RESOLVED (Kinda)

I bought a new 500 w Power supply, and guess what.. SAME PROBLEM..

I new then, that the power supply was not the problem ...

I started then replacing part by part, including the power cord, power strip, and outlet I was using. Still nothing. Swapped out the memory etc (Well you get it).

Turns out the primary hard drive was causing the issue.

The Kinda part is, I do not know why (Yet), and when I just replaced the drive all went well.

The drive was working pefrectly for those 22 hours, and then somehow began causing the computer to just shut off.

The drive is only a year old, but I would not be surprised if there is some sort of boot or other virus. My son clicks yes to everything (Thats why he does not get to even look at my computers, and why I build his..

If you have any sugggestions on safely looking into the issue with the hard drive, I would be glad to hear them, but as of now, I will probably just throw it away..

Thanks again to all of you

 

Kool:cool - Glad the units stable, havent heard of a faulty Hdd crashing the system frequently get bsods or things of that nature, at least with the older ide drives that is.

Just a suggestion, you may already do this.

Set up the sons account / profile as a user - or power user if you must, and not with administrator rights.

The reason behind this is if the sons account is as an administrator and gets infected then the infection pretty much could have potentially the same privileges and access / control to all files that are permitted for that account / profile.

If you are comfortable with imaging / ghosting software you might want to do a clean install with all the drivers and minimal apps like anitspyware with current updates. That way the restore should take under an hour and no need to load drivers and what have you.

P.S I am far from certain of this but it maybe the low power supply stressed and then possibly fragged the HDD..probably wrong on this. L8r:wave