need upgrade advice

I'm not technically savvy enough to tell if similar threads apply to my questions about upgrading to a better video (graphics) card. I presently have a HD2400 pro256M 64bit, DDR2 PCI-EVGA/TVO/DVI-I which is a ATI Radeon Diamond multimedia card, specs here http://www.diamondmm.com/images/materials/new/stealth_2400PRO256PE_spec_sheet.pdf

My power supply is a corsair CX750 and the mobo is MSI-7345 (P35 Neo2-FR series), specs here http://www.msi.com/product/mb/P35-Neo2-FR---FIR.html

Other relevant computer hardware/software is XP pro svc pk 3, Intel 3005 MHz, total memory 4, 096 MHz

The reason I suspect I may need a video graphics card upgrade is I do a lot of movie burning (but no gaming) and ran into a problem that the dvd maker software people told me might have something to do with the video card driver. It didn't as far as I know because I made sure that the latest driver for my current card was installed. Nevertheless based on a possibility that the card is sometimes not up to snuff for my movie burn work I'm thinking I might have to upgrade.

Looking at cards I see specifications at newegg for example here in my price range http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...on=pci express&name=$50 - $75&Order=BESTMATCH that list PCI Express 2.0 & 2.1 and I see advice on the web that my mobo better be able to handle that. I just don't know what my MSI mobo can take with regard to those 2.0 & 2.1 standards which obviously I don't understand. So I'm here to ask advice about what cards my mobo can use, and why

I'll appreciate any applicable advice major geeks have to offer and thanks in advance. :wave

 

The Video card is only going to affect playback, not burning movies. The dvd maker software people are trying to not place blame on their software, but also your computer hardware in the way of RAM, Hard drive & CPU has a lot do do with how the software is able to do its work.

Keep in mind, most times, people will use a dedicated machine that has enough RAM & horsepower to handle such an intense task, than a machine that they are going to be using at the same time to do other stuff at the same time. Also, if you are just using XP 32bit, you are limited to 3gb of RAM, and that can also be a choke point along with back bus speed.

 

Thanks brownizs, I get you about blame as I suspected as much but still wasn't sure if my video card was nevertheless obsolete. So you don't think I'd be better off with a better card? Would you recommend something based on my data and reference?

 

I really can't say, since everyone has their favorites and the pocketbook is the ultimate deciding factor.

 

Yes, I understand what you're saying. But you obviously know more about the tech specs than I do, and I was looking for some picks based on what my mobo and system is compatible with. As for pocketbook I posted a newegg link with my $ range. If you prefer not to offer that kind of advice is there anyone else that wouldn't mind? Thanks

 

You can pick up a decent Intel i5 or i7 desktop for under $1,000 now days, that will run 64 bit Operating systems. Also, the AMD 64 bit CPU's are getting down in price. We got our son a Toshiba Satellite C850 that can accept 16gb RAM, and will run circles around machines from a year or two ago. We got it for under $350 in November, now it is still selling for under $400.

 

sorry brownizs, I don't think you understand my question with regard to a new video card, not a new computer. I don't think I need a new computer, system, or a 64 bit CPU (or do I?). What I was asking is if there's an graphics card upgrade that my present mobo, CPU, memory, and system is compatible with. In my first post I listed all the pertinent data or reference for someone more savvy than I am to choose by. In other words just opinions on what's possible or available.

Or maybe I shouldn't do anything because my present card, as old as it is, should be OK? Anyone?

 

Hi,

I think Brownizs has it right that your current video card shouldn't be impeding converting movies. Your CPU or RAM would be the bottleneck. The video card should only be relevant during playback and that card should be capable of playing back a DVD movie.

What sort of problem are you having with your DVD maker software? When you are using the software open up task manager and see if either your CPU or RAM is maxed out. That would help pinpoint if one of those is the problem.

 

Hey sach2, thanks for the comeback, I think you touched base with me on another issue that's still not resolved....but let's let that go for now until I get this straight.

You're (and brownizs) are probably right about my present video card not impeding my movie burns, but I still wanted some input about upgrading anyway. Do you see my references, first post? If so do you have any opinions or recommendations?

As for the problems I'm having....when burning (downloaded public domain) movies to dvd disk and the burn gets to the creating a menu stage before the actual burn I get an error message that the menu could not be created and do I want to continue without a menu!? If I do continue the movie(s) are burned OK but without any menu so the playback is continuous without choices. If I don't continue the software exits and the burn process stops.

The software is SOTHINK DVD MOVIE MAKER which I got years ago. I had the same problem way back when but for reasons unknown the problem went away and thereafter I was able to create the menu for any number of movies on the DVD. Now however, after doing some maintenance (because of the aforementioned other problem you were in on) I had to download SOTHINK again and the problem's back. I recontacted SOTHINK for an answer again (which they never gave me the first time) and am now waiting for a response. We'll see!!!!

So long story, yes? Do you have anything to say? Hope so! Thanks

And BTW, the other issue was an icon (favicon) saving issue that I still have.
Remember?

 

Hi,

I don't know enough about video cards to give any advice. I only bought my first video card several months ago and relied on recommendations from other members.

I only wanted to let you know that I agreed with brownizs that the converting problem was most likely related to other hardware than the video card. Now, it sounds like it is a software glitch, I can't see how hardware would prevent you from creating a chapter menu.

I'm not familiar with Sothink. I bought ConvertX a few years ago but don't bother with menus for the very few DVDs I write. I can only offer DVDFlick as a possibility for a very good free software for converting movies to DVD format.

 

OK, thanks. And I already have DVD Flick.

On that other icon/favicon issue, did I tell you it was all about FF? I found out by searching for "how to save web page shortcuts on the desktop". Evidently many people have the same problem and it's because after FF 16 FF did not use its own shortcut favicon...the generic windows doc instead, even after updating to FF18 (which I have now). The workaround (at least until FF fixes that issue) is to use deskcut http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Browser-Tweak/deskCut.shtml . Some FF users said it did not work but that's probably because they did not configure it after installation.
You have to use options to find set path. It's working fine for me and it's actually better than the drag since you don't have to restore down to drag the shortcut to desktop.

Have a good one :-D

 

Thanks again sach2, this is a delayed response to your reply about SoThink.
The latest is I have requested a refund from the publisher's vendor agent since SoThink is ignoring my cust svc requests now, and everything they have suggested in the past never helped. I know it must be a software error problem because the application worked sometimes, but not other times using the same computer and operating conditions. The refund request is pending, I'll let you know what happens if you like.

On another, but related issue, for a long time I have been thinking to upgrade my CPU and/or memory in addition to the video card. Reason being for the CPU and memory, at times when streaming or viewing online there is that annoying drag/hesitation in the stream while my computer obviously catches up to the stream rate. I have been told that's because of CPU and memory capacities and I should upgrade to a faster CPU which can subsequently accept more memory than I now have. Would you agree?

If so the next step would be to check my MOBO limitations for CPU's I could use. The memory is no problem since I have a good source if needed.

If you don't have any advice this time, or are not able to answer, I will make this post in a new hardware thread.

 

It would help to know what CPU and Motherboard you have. Depending on the age of your machine, It may be unwise to upgrade, and more cost effective to get a better one.

Also, you have to consider the cost of having the parts installed if you are unable to do it yourself.

If it were me, I would look into a new cpu, You said you can add more ram no problem. So the first step is see what cpu you can upgrade to and can you afford that new cpu.

After you decide on a CPU you can afford, and can work in your machine, make sure you check out reviews, get several opinions so you can make a better more well informed choice.

Let us know what you find out.

 

You have a decent board, which has some good upgrade potential. From what I've seen on the MSI site, your board will support up to a Core 2 Quad processor:

CPU
• Supports Intel® Core 2 Quad/Core 2 Duo based processors in LGA775 package.
• Supports Intel® Yorkfield, Wolfdale.
• Supports FSB 1600/1333/1066/800 MHz.

If you are thinking about upgrading the processor you have, I'd check eBay for used ones with a return guarantee - you can sometimes pick a decent Core 2 for a song.

Ditto RAM. It appears your computer will support up to 8GB. More RAM is always good, but for what you are doing with the PC 4 GB should be plenty.

As far as video cards go - it has been my RL experience that converting/burning video goes a lot faster and smoother the more advanced video card you have (i.e. the more advanced Graphics Processing Unit, or GPU, you have). The HD2400 is pretty long in the tooth now, and an upgrade here will do wonders for your system. There are a lot of cards that, while old now, still have more advanced GPU's then the 2400 has. I can't speak to the issue of your Burning software vs. Video card debate, but I can offer a few recomendations on an upgrade.

I have a HD2400 Pro card, and was using it in a P4 based computer I built. The motherboard was what I call a "crossover" board, which still used the older socket 478 P4 hyper-threaded CPU's, but also had PCI-E slots and used DDR2 RAM. I used it mostly to convert VHS video to Digital (home movies and such) and it performed well, but the converting and burning was a long process. I found a good deal on a Radeon HD3850 and bought it . . . and the difference was amazing. Video conversion was much, much faster, and burning was as well - and seemed to suffer fewer errors.

One of the main things to look for in buying a video card is the memory bus. A bus speed of 256bit is good. 128bit is ok, but I'd stay away from anything that is 64bit. There are a lot of 64bit cards out there that tout having tons of onboard ram, but that is misleading. It's kind of like the difference between dumping a gallon of water out of a milk jug, and a gallon of water out of a bucket. A 64bit card cannot take advantage of a lot of RAM in any really effective way. Lots of RAM with a bigger bus (the bucket) is a different story. For what you want to do, anything HD3850 or above with at least a 128bit bus would be a good upgrade, and greatly improve the overall performance of the PC. eBay is also good source for older video cards, as even the 3850 is getting pretty old. I'm not able to advise on nVidia cards as I've not had much experience with them.

Good luck, and let us know how you are doing. I may have missed it, but did you mention what burning software you are using?

 

Oh - forgot to mention that most newer cards (like the HD3850) need to be connected to your power supply . . . so that is a consideration also. My 3850 uses a standard Molex plug, but some require a 6 or 8 pin plug. I have an HD6850 that requires two 6 pin plugs.

From the stats I've seen on your corsair CX750 power supply, this should not be an issue for you either way. Just make sure you don't need an adapter should the card need more than one power connection. Your wattage is ample enough for most cards out there.

Overall, between a CPU upgrade or a video card upgrade? In my opinion you will see the greatest benefit from a video card upgrade.

 

Thanks Spad, and all who have answered. I am now checking on all possibilities. Spad, as for burning software I use AVC, CD Burner XP, DVD Flick, DVD Fab 8 Qt, MP3 sound recorder, ImgBurn, InfraRecorder, DVD Ripit4Me, DVD Styler, and formerly Sothink DVD movie maker (which is now pending a refund request because of the error Sothink can't (won't) address).

 

I'm back! Had some trouble with the MSI people as they took down their complete CPU support data which I wanted for ALL the upgrade possibilities.
Called them and tech support said they were "fixing" the page glitch...took about a week but I now have all core 2 Quad's MSI lists supported by my mobo. However when speaking with MSI tech support I was told there would not be much upgrade improvement with just a CPU upgrade, and what's more the tech gave me only 2 socket 775 CPU's he said would work...E8400 and E8600. So I'm confused for two reasons. The E8400 has a speed the same as my E6850 and the E8600 has a speed of 3.33 (.33 more than my E6850). So why would the E8400 be better, and why would the E8600 be an improvement compared to quads that you suggest I should get. And why a quad anyway since all the supported quads (except the yorkfield Q9650 @ 3.33) are a speed below 3.00 of my E6850? In any case I guess I don't understand quad and speed related to the performance % upgrade I'm looking for.

Furthermore MSI actually suggests I really need a new computer to get the performance upgrade I want, saying there would not be much improvement with the CPU upgrade.

Do I really need a new computer? Another tech I know says I should get new Dell or Lenovo with a Quad core. There's that Quad core again.

Another thing. I previously mentioned I would have no trouble getting more memory after I upgraded my CPU. I said that based on a memory review done by the last memory brand I bought who said the CPU determined how much memory would be supported and I assume that's still true. So If I upgrade to a quad with more speed will I be able to also increase memory (a desirable thing)??? Or am I wrong about memory and the mobo actually determines how much memory is supported?

Advice and opinions please. :confused

 

Spad, you were the most encouraging to my inquiry, and I quoted you in my last response. Don't know if you know, but can you take a look at my details in that last post? Appreciate it. Thanks.

 

I have been AWOL for a bit.

I am no expert on CPU's to be sure. In a nutshell? More cores = better general performance (General being the operative word). Windows XP SP2 or above can "see" multi-core CPU's, but it is up to the software you are using to take advantage of those cores.

If you can pick up a CPU your motherboard supports with more cores than you current one has for a decent price, it's a good upgrade. Multi core is good, and even if your current software doesn't need the extra cores, perhaps the next software you have to use will.

But, if cost is a consideration, then I think your best upgrade is in the video card area. You will more likely see a useful increase in performance this way, especially if you use your computer for video-based things. Just my opinion. You can always get the CPU upgrade later.

I have no doubt someone with more dope on CPU's will tell you the CPU upgrade is the best option . . . and they may be right. I can just speak from personal experience. I'm using a socket 478 P4 3.0GHZ single core processor, that's hyperthreaded (allowed two threads to run at the same time, thus emulating a "dual" core) for video crunching, and when I went from an HD2400 to an HD3850 the performance increase was phenomenal . . . When I put a 4870 in, I also saw a performance boost. In fact, I am still using that computer to convert the odd VHS tape I still have, or am asked to convert.

Also:

--regular maintenance on your computer is vital. I defrag my XP based computers on a regular schedule.
--If you are doing video work, it helps to have your output folder located on another drive then the one the raw file is . . . all my PC's have two drives of the same speed, as I have found this improves operations across the board.
--I run CCleaner, Spyware Blaster, and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware on my computers on a regular basis.
--I assume you are running an anti-virus program . . . I use Avast, and have for several years on multiple computers.

I hope this helps. Let us know how it goes. You have a solid board and a decent amount of RAM. Have you tried other software? Perhaps the limitation is there . . . I've often been surpised by the performance difference in software.

 

Thanks Spad, hope your AWOL was not anything serious. Glad for your CPU and video card advice. It seems to me that both are in order for me (if I can find, and afford, upgrades for both).

As for the CPU I have not yet found any quad core that I can afford...maybe later on ebay or on sale at the two big houses I'm sure you also know about.

But would you give me your opinion on the video card upgrade?
Here is what I now have

http://www.diamondmm.com/images/materials/new/stealth_2400PRO256PE_spec_sheet.pdf

Do you think I would realize an improvement with this

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=149617&Sku=A271-5456

Or maybe something with a higher price would be better?

Sorry I'm so dense to understand the specs benefits (or not), I appreciate your input. :-D

BTW I'm delighted that your "also" (regular maintenance, etc) is essentially the same as what I have always used and still do. My anti virus program is COMODO internet security premium. Never understood the different filtering system COMODO uses but so far have never had any known downsides compared to others.

Furthermore I have two partitions on all my 500gb hd's, using one strictly for data and the other for XP system and system apps. that was recommended to me by an old friend years ago. I'm assuming that separate partitions are always less confusing for system ops as you say.

Hope to see your reply before the above Tiger video card sale is over.

 

No problem. I'm glad to help with my limited store of knowledge.

You would certainly see a marked improvement with the HD 5450 card over what you have now. The limiting factor is the memory bus, which on both cards is just 64bit (bucket vs. milk jug). If you can afford a card in the HD5000 range or higher that has at least a 128bit memory bus you would get much greater performance. A 128bit memory bus is more able to take advantage of the RAM contained on the card.

But, if your budget is tight, the card you have specified would be a viable improvement over what you have.

 

Thanks, I'll see if I can find one with a larger bus. BTW, how is it you use a Latin proverb signature. I really like that!

 

I ordered this one, minutes ago. Can't wait to get it. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1440044&CatId=7005

 

BTW Spad, you're too modest. Your store of knowledge is obviously considerable. I have another question. In looking around for a Core 2 Quad upgrade over my E6850, there are interesting quad cores at a better price that my mobo would like, but with a CPU speed less than 3.005 which my E6850 has. I'm wondering if replacing the E6850 with a quad core speed of, let's say 2.83 would not be detrimental (because of a lower than 3.005 speed), or would the quad core more than make up the speed difference?

 

That's a question someone more familier with CPU's should answer, because I am really not sure. I know from RL experience that a 2.8 GHZ Pentum D dual core was a lot faster then a 3.4 GHZ (overclocked) P4 Hyper-threaded processor; and my new build with an i5 3.1ghz Quad Core is by far the fastest of them all. By "Fastest" I mean mainly by benchmark scores . . . real world usage improvements depend a lot on the software you are using. I know Windows 7 really liked going from two to four cores :-D The O.S. seemed much more responsive.

My gut feeling is that yes, a quad core would be a good upgrade. The drop in core "speed" is negligible in my opinion. But again - someone with more CPU savvy may have a different opinion.

I'm anxious to hear how the new card works for you. Let us know when you put it through some paces.