P2p Or Not

Got this in the E mail today it looks like the Americans are being deprived of a top P2P torrent.http://www.smileyhut.com/working/busted_cop.gif

 

??

~c

 

Sorry i don't know what happened to the link here it is again.confused
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8838/TorrentSpy+may+cut+of+access+to+US+visitors

 

Lol blocking Americans from using TorrentSpy will just allow them to redirect themselves to other torrent sites.

 

There are so many file sharing programs out there that when one gets shut down (like napster, before you had to pay, and kazaa did) two to three pop up in thier place. I dont think p2p programs will ever go away.

whether or not you think p2p sharing is wrong.. well thats your opinion but i think that i government should spend money on more important things then tracking down and prosecuting some kid who downloaded a few songs.

 

Theft is theft, no matter the form, right?

Theft is illegal, breaking the law, correct?

Should the criminals not be punished under the law they are bound to?

Really, stealing a program electronically, vs. shoplifting, there really is very little difference in principle.

 

Sounds like we are preaching to the choir here, China and India are still wide open, and the laws are different there. I guess it has to do with their being the most populous nations on the planet. I don't P2P or torrent, I like my computers, and wouldn't want to expose their operating systems to any that have been around, if you know what I mean. You know we don't call it the World Wide Web for nothing. File sharing is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get.....The main reason I started visiting this web site in the beginning, it was kinda like having momma check out programs for you before you downloaded them.
Bug

 

I think stealing is wrong yes.. but i think p2p (unless you are doing it to make a profit) isnt.

Think about the old days, when a friend lended you a cd and you copied it.. is that stealing? or when you taped songs of the radio, is that stealing?

I think thats the same when you p2p... someone bought those cds/songs.

But then again thats my opinion.

 

Stealing is stealing. There is no justifying it.

If one person buys a CD in a store, does that mean every other shopper should now be able to shoplift it?

Too many people think that internet anonymity makes stealing perfectly reasonable.

I am no saint, but I have no confusion on what what it is--its theft.

 

Art belongs to society!!!

heh...

 

well lets see..... if we cut back actors pay so that they only get like 2 million dollars per movie..... drop down the price of movies to like $5 then i think that would solve so much of it!!! All of these actors and actresses and music "artists" are getting paid too much..... which is why i dont feel bad about how much of there shit gets stolen..... they dont need the ****ing money..... is it the right thing to do? no..... but that doesn't stop a lot of people..... so if all these famous people would cut back there fortunes in half (oh no how am i going to live with only 5 million dolllars a year.... AAAHHHH) everythign would be cheaper and im sure many of these people would be far more inclined to go buy it..... i know i'd pay for a movie if it was only 5 bucks instead of illegally downloading it...... but like 20 bucks is just too much.....

 

shoplifting isnt the same as borrowing.

you mean to tell me that you've NEVER copied a borrowed cd or recorded a song? because if you did by your standards that make you a thief.

 

Guess you didn't read my entire reply.

I know what it is. I know what I've done. I don't hide behind a computer monitor and say its not stealing, however.

Have I ever borrowed a CD? Sure. Recording a song off it is stealing. Listening? As free as radio.

P2P as borrowing...thats a good one.

Ranks right up there with the warez monkey saying, "oh, I just want to try it out a little longer. Then I'll buy it."

What a load of crap. We all know better, just nobody wants to admit to breaking the law, making them a criminal. I've pirated. I know its stealing. I know if I had been caught, I deserved whatever punishment dealt to me and would accept it. Anymore, I'm all about OSS. I don't have a need nor desire to pirate.

All I am saying is...don't hide behind computer anonymity and think what you are doing is legal. If you get caught, have the nerve to take the punishment. If you can live with the risk, and accept the punishment if you get caught--go for it, pirate away.

 

People warez and crack 5-10 dollar applications all the time. The cost angle is just an excuse for warez monkeys to feel better about themselves.

First its, 20 dollars? No way. I'll P2P it for free.


Then its 5 dollars? Thats a good price...still I can P2P it for free. rolleyes

 

Ok, Thats your opinion. Why do you think its called file sharing? its like emailing someone a picture, your sharing it with them. what if they email it to someone else? or 300 other people? does that mean they are stealing it? i think not.

I'll admit I've downloaded a few songs. one here and there but 99% of songs on my mp3 are from cd's ive bought. so does download a few songs make me a bad person? i dont think so.

Im not sitting behind my pc saying everyone get p2p software and never buy a cd again! I understand that some people abuse it but in my opinion I think there are more important things that the government should be talking care of like, the homeless, people that have to work 3 jobs just to make ends, people that go aroung sick because they can’t afford to go to the hospital or buy prescriptions because they cant afford insurance, not greedy record labels to who i guess $5 million just isnt enough for them.

 

Calling it file sharing doesn't make it legal. There are plenty of legal uses, but its also true that p2p apps are not used for just that. How many legit torrents do you see floating around? They are there, but are they as common as illegally shared apps, music, etc?

Lets look at two statements here.

No, its perfectly legal.

Now change it to a pay-for application or music file. Then its not legal. There is no opinion here, that is fact!



As for it making you a bad person---did you see in any of my posts in this thread that breaking the law makes someone a bad person?

Not even once did I say that. I didn't even hint at that. I've been to jail, and spent a good year on supervised probation--yet I think I am a nice guy, and others agree. Not sure where you got that idea from. I am sure you are a wonderful person, I wouldn't dream of saying otherwise. But wonderful people can also be criminals, just like criminals can be bad people.

 

Yes, as a matter of fact it was/is.

Can't say for sure.

So, if you could copy your hammer and give a "free hammer" to every person on the planet, that would be ok, because you paid for 1?

But then again thats my opinion.....

 

I'm really amazed at the morons who think its ok just because its easy.

For one, if you email copyrighted material, YES, IT'S ILLEGAL <MOD EDIT>.
If you email a picture that YOU took and didn't copyright it, then no, its not.

I love the morons who compare apples to oranges then act all stoopid when nobody agrees with them. Snot nosed idiots who are either playing games, masterbating to stolen porn or surfing the web, rather than being productive members of society.

 

Ok, thats enough. Civil conversations are fine, but flamebait is not tolerated.

Your first post was fine. The second one is not.

 

There isn't a reason for people to get hostile... we are all adults, we are capable of having adult conversations without resorting to name calling.

Aside from that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and calling it file sharing doesn't make it illegal either. With the whole its "illegal" thing, who says? the government, what is the government made of? people like you and me with opinions, who sways (or pays for) these opinions to change? the people with the most money or loudest voice (most of the time). so if i were to say selling oranges on sunday is illegal, would it be? No but who's to say? My *original* point was that I think the gov. should focus on more important things.

Im not saying anyone is less of a person for "stealing" music.. heck we all have made mistake, noones perfect (im sure not) and i apologize if anyone was offended..not what i intended.

So, Adrynalyne how bout we just agree to disagree

 

I can live with that

 

I think the big debate here is law versus morals.

Yes, dyamond, the government and their laws may not make sense to you (or me, for that matter) but it doesn't change the fact that they're in control of the environment in which you live. That's what law is: rules specified by a community's authority, so whether or not you think sharing music qualifies as "stealing" is completely irrelevant. By law, sharing copyrighted material is stealing.

The word "stealing" carries a negative connotation, as the act is typically thought of as immoral, but where the line is drawn between sharing and stealing in real life (without consideration to the law) is up to every individual. You'll find many artists fighting p2p society (Lars Ulrich, why must you make me hate you?) and equally as many promoting. For some, it's all about the money - for others, it's all about sharing the experience, and exposing themselves to as large of audience as possible.

With that said, I think p2p is a great way to test the waters before you buy something. Sorry, but I don't get nearly enough information about an album by listening to a single. I want the whole experience before I go dropping some coin, but I assure you those artists who are worthy of my cash get it every time; from CDs, DVDs, concerts, and assorted paraphernalia - I'm an entertainment junky, what can I say. Same goes for movies; I'm happy to pay DVD prices when it's a great piece of work, but you couldn't pay me to sit through some of the less-than-stellar pieces of crap that hollywood churns out each year (yet still manage to peak my curiosity from time to time.. thus p2p). Programs are a bit different, usually cost/need is the big factor here - if it's something I'm going to be using every day, I'm happy to pay for it; but for something I need just once, or rarely, definately not. For the most part, there's not a huge need as there's a significant number of open-source/freeware companies out there making excellent products.

Anyway, all it boils down to is personal decision. Like adrynalyne said, don't kid yourself about what you are doing; accept the risks and roll with it, or don't do it, simple as that.

 

Fine then I'm a thief, so what? Seems like some of you don't have realistic ideas of what this is about and what the impact is.

Don't know what this "stealing a program electronically" is about though, I'm stealing Files not programs.

 

How can it be refereed to as stealing when the people who have it put it up exclusively for others to download? Why is it different from recording off the radio?

 

Thats not entirely correct. You are an adult (a very pretty one I might add) I am an adult-adult adult which stands for grandma. :wave

 

Ok. Think about it. If one person buys a program, and then shares it with everyone else, then no, that person is not stealing. The other people are stealing.

Thats how the law is written, that is how it is. Now if the company who owns said application gives it out, thats different.

See, when you buy a piece of software, you don't own that software. You own a (usually) single user license to USE it. Thats all you have purchased. Giving it out to others is theft on their part because they did not purchase a license to use it.

Recording off the radio is lower quality, usually has radio edits of some sort, and you dont get the full album, do you?

 

Enlighten me. Please.

 

OK, I see, but I have never downloaded programs nor do I put mine out. Strictly music I do put on cds when I get over loaded.

 

I download some programs off a P2P but thats only because it states in the EULA that it can be shared. Like this one game i bought it says in the EULA that it can be freely copied and shared Warbirds 2.77R3 all the way to version 2006/2007 (www.totalsims.com). Use to you could download the game for free on there site but now you got to sign up before you can download. it still states in the EULA that it can be freely copied and shared so i still share it. Now what would you call that? and what i mean they started charging for it but i still share it because of the EULA says i can.

 

Well you're worried about CD sales falling to unbearable levels correct? File Sharing just isn't that safe for the average person to use it for all of their songs, also the quality tends to be below average too, information gets left out, viruses can masquerade as normal files, and all 'round you just can't always trust the the content you're receiving to be what you want it to be, because of this File Sharing will never be common, it will just be restricted to people who know what they're doing or don't want to (or can't) spend money on something "frivolous", the only reason big business is angry is because they're losing money and they know they can't do anything about it. In fact Apple offers a sort of middle route, pay $1.00 for one song, of course this also has it's downsides. So in my opinion even though it is illegal it is definitely not wrong, if you still have a problem with this, well it isn't my problem, you're the one missing out on a lot of good music, especially the songs made for the internet.

 

roflmao

You missed my whole point. maybe you should re-read. i said nothing of what you mentioned. I still find it highly amusing that so many people think the law is opinion.

Well, if you get caught, guess who's opinion counts?

LOL

 

Anupu,

Adrynalyne is outlining Copyright Laws which can be applied locally/internationally.

You have contradicted yourself by stating: "even though it is illegal it is definitely not wrong."

Illegal means:
1. forbidden by law or statute.
2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.

As Adrynalyne said in his last post: "...if you get caught, guess who's opinion counts?"

I'm afraid the magistrate/judge would not take in your opinion because you would have broken the law. Simple. Do yourself a favour and read Adrynalyne's post again.

 

I'm saying it isn't wrong by my "Moral Compass", sure the Government says it's wrong, but the Government also says it's illegal for Homosexuals to marry, in some countries interracial marriage has been illegal.

Of course they wouldn't but it's a given that it's breaking the law, I thought we were talking about this being somehow "morally wrong", not about the obvious danger of getting caught.

 

So then you think I'm not aware that it's illegal, is that it? You think that I think that I'll just get off no problem? I thought this was about what you think is right not about what the Government enforces.

 

You really need to stop skimming. Even legalsuit summed it up for you. I never claimed anything about what you do, or don't, know. All I said is that laws are not opinions, they govern you. If you get caught, your opinion won't mean :crap.

It has nothing to do with what I think is right. My point, and it is fact, this is stealing. It is illegal. Don't hide behind your computer monitor, cry ignorance, and try to convince yourself that this is legit. If they catch you, you will be fined, and or prosecuted. Your opinion will mean squat. That said, if you are man enough to face the music if/when it plays, then go ahead and do it. If you are a weasel, be man enough not to do it. I'd wager that P2P would slow down considerably, if the users evaluated whether or not they have the balls to take their medicine if they get caught.

There you have it. All summed up so you can't misread it yet again.

 

You’re going off track. Laws pull in morals as well (and there will always be an argument there). But laws are laws.

(If you want to start talking about other legalities regarding homosexuality, perhaps you need to start another thread because that is not a suitable analogy here.)

Adrynalyne has been patient and provided sufficient examples to put forward proper arguments. He couldn’t have been more explicit.

I’ve seen and attended cases ad nauseam (ie to the point of nausea), with your arguments that simply fail because the law has been broken. Try telling it to a judge, you won't get far.

 

You keep acting like I'm saying what I'm doing is legal when I'm not, until you can accept that I wont have anything further to say.

 

See my first post was about whether the laws are right or wrong, if you thought it was about whether I could get caught then you misinterpreted it.

 

I keep acting like what?? I never said either way. How presumptous of you.

Stop assuming my postings have been about you specifically. I've been posting in this for a while, I hardly see how what I said on page 1 applies to you specifically on page 2.

All I did on page 2 was summarize what you misread all along. So seeing how you don't have anything further to say, I can stop wasting my time on this.

 

I am not 100% sure ADRYN but from the style of the posts i seem to recognise this ANUPU from another forum where he would go off at a tangent to the post and it always ended on sex or religion he was always trying to provoke other members. it was one of the MSN forums but i just can not remember his posting name.
if it's not him i am sorry but i don't think so.confused

 

Rob from the rich, give to the poor LOL




edit - joke btw before anyone gets upset

 

Wouldn't surprise me if it is the same person...whoever that person is, he/she appears to have difficulty reading, understanding and totally lacks comprehension when it comes to the law and legal matters. Even a street wise person has more common sense and grey matter. I find his/her comments posted as childish and boring:zzz

Personally I won't be wasting any more time in this thread. Adrynalyne was specific in his responses and shouldn't waste his time responding either, because the posts by that person are not specific to the subject, wrong analogies are used which are way off base and show signs of a very confused mind...(probably has difficulty knowing what side of the bed to get out of in the morning). He/she hasn't got the intelligence or sensibilities anyone would want to waste words on anyway and appears to enjoy simply being antagonist with little to gain accept the attention he/she is seeking which in my books is pretty pathetic.

Cheers

LS

*ps Hope you're resting and getting better/stronger everyday Bill...don't overdo it on the PC...please.*
*pps Bill, don't bother responding to this (my lasted) post as I won't be wasting time/bothering to look into it.*

 

Never used MSN Forums.

 

Ok so I'll make it simple for you guys, since you can't see to understand a word I'm saying (And love to push me), Copyright Laws are wrong, immoral, bad. Get it? This has nothing to do with whether or not I'm going to go to court ect, this has to do with whether or not it is right that I go to court because of it, that is what my posts were about from the very start, I have not gone off on a tangent you've simply misinterpreted my posts.

 

If I spend long hours designing, writing something only to have it ripped off I think I might disagree strongly (and I do). People own what they write, and when they die, their heirs own it (my kids, whom I love very dearly and wish to leave something for). Copywrite started with sheet music and novels (and short stories), and has expanded out, but the principle is the same. Information does not want to be free, this is a copout for thieves who probably haven't done a real lick of work on that front ever (note, I am refering to no one here, if you feel I'm talking about YOU then maybe your concience is bothering you).

Anyone who wishes to steal software ought to try writing some, it is work, hard work, and it wasn't done for free. The fact it is work also means it is property. I worked hard for my house, if someone tried to take it from me I might just become violent. I have no problem making the association towards a programmer, writer, or artist.

Just to keep the discussion going (and lets keep it civil) trying to punish people by extorsion like the RIA does is the other side of the spectrum. A kid who has downloaded maybe $200 dollars worth of music needs nailed, but these folks don't seem to have any common sense, and end up making more enimies than friends.

I suspect my attitude is going to be a prevalent one here, due to the numbers of real programmers (as opposed to script kiddies), writers, and artists.

 

I think you really need to cool down, re-read my posts, and think about what you're saying before you say it, instead of trying to start things that aren't happening along with your buddy.

 

be careful BILL this guy is just trying to aggravate you as you see he will not answer the actual question but keeps telling us we misunderstand him and this WILL go on ad infinitum.http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/signs091.gif

 

That's what the twit bit is for (AKA, add xxx to your ignore list, a handy feature). I think the subject is interesting enough without stirring.

I've wrote programs. Nothing major, but I slaved over them enough to appriciate the work involved. Writing high quality code is artistic IMO.

 

If you wanna make sense, thats one thing. But you are making a mockery of a discussion.

So, I think its probably unanimous that I close this thread.