Power down (shut down) sometimes hangs

I've been having power down issues for a while (months) - PC gets to "Windows is shutting down" and hangs... sometimes... maybe about 50% (other times it powers down properly). I know it's really hung because sometimes I don't notice it hasn't turned off, and I come back hours later to see it still sitting there.

edit: WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN BELOW IS WRONG. I JUST SHUT DOWN AND THE THING HUNG AGAIN - WITH HT OFF!!!!!!!!!!! I must have tried it successfully about 15 times - then as soon as I post this, it goes wrong. Don't you love computers???!!!! So maybe it's the RAM then.

I believe I have finally tracked down the problem to hyper threading. When I turn it off, power down always works. Turn it back on and the same issue comes back.

It's not a big deal, as I don't really do anything that requires high speed, but I'm curious, and maybe it points to some other issue that I should know about anyway.

Running W XP SP2 with updates. I have tried another HDD running W98SE, and same result, so that should exclude the HDD or anything on it.

Has anyone come across this sort of thing?

I did wonder if the RAM (2x512MB) had anything to do with it, as I get an occasional error on Memtest (about 1 error per 100% tested), but since disabling HT fixes the problem, I'm guessing it's that.

Also wondering if a driver update for BIOS might fix it (it has probably never been updated - 2nd hand PC)...

Everest says:
Suggestion System BIOS is more than 2 years old. Update it if necessary.

Specs:
CPU: P4 3000 MHz
Motherboard ID 11/11/2003-RS300-SB200-6A664PR8C-00
Motherboard Name Sapphire Axion RS300
Chipset:
North Bridge ATI Radeon 9100 IGP
Award BIOS Type Phoenix - Award WorkstationBIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message BIOS-I-4M (2K031111)
System BIOS Date 11/11/03

No overclocking

P.S. 'Restart' always works fine.

 

Re: hyper threading prevents power down?

Hmmm... on the other hand, I just shut down after editing the post below, and discovered it stayed on 'Saving your settings' for a long time, and then powered down properly. Maybe that's what happened the last time, and it would have powered down properly after all.:-o:confused

 

Re: hyper threading prevents power down?

Hi Halo.
Thanks very much for your suggestions.
I may have confused things with my later additions to my first post on this. Sorry if so :-o. The actual problem is random failures to automatically powerdown the PC on shutdown. It sometimes hangs at the "Windows is shutting down" screen. Other times it powers down normally. I thought I had solved the issue with the HT thing, but it now appears that that was not the cause, although the problem appears to occur less frequently with HT off.

I didn't say what other info I had about this problem because I thought I had found the cause. Much of what I have tried is included in your suggestions. (I've been working on the problem for some time.)

• I have tried clean boots - with and without System Services - problem still occurs randomly.
• I have run many tests starting the PC and then shutting it down as soon as it had finished booting (and some before it finished booting completely), so the same apps would be running each time (also tried shutting down processes in Task Manager). Same result. Also, I guess that getting the same problem using another HDD (with 98SE) suggests that it's not some app causing the problem - more like MB, RAM or PSU, n'est-ce pas?
• Clearing the page file at shutdown is disabled
• The PC does not have APM
• All device drivers are signed
• I have two accounts - Admin and limited. The problem occurs whether or not I access the Admin a/c, and it occurs when shutting down from either a/c (and anyway, there is only one a/c on the HDD with W98SE, so that shouldn't be the cause).

I have found a couple of posts on other forums (fora?) with the same problem, but none of them were resolved. Most related problems appear to be a consistent failure to powerdown (or shutdown), rather than random occurrences.

 

Re: Hyper Threading causes power down issues?

OK, more testing done. To cut a long story ASAP (S=Short):
Tested RAM with one stick in at a time. No Memtest errors (after 20 minutes each). PC hung sometimes on Power Down with either stick in.
Put both sticks back in and gave them a good push and jiggle. No errors after an hour testing. PC still hung sometimes on Power Down. Checked RAM again afterwards for 30 minutes - no errors. RAM seems OK now.
Conclusion: It's not a RAM problem.
As far as I can see that leaves MB, CPU and PSU (remembering that I have the same problem when using a different HDD with 98SE).

I wouldn't mind changing the Title of this thread (Hyper Threading causes power down issues?), as it now appears to be wrong.

 

Re: hyper threading prevents power down?

Have you checked to see if any types of scans or auto-defrag program is running in the background.
Windows may have to wait for it to finish to prevent corruption of files.

 

Re: hyper threading prevents power down?

Hi hrlow2. You're up late (or early).
Thanks. I'll check on the scans and auto-defrag suggestion when I get back to my PC. I would be surprised if it was that though, as I have shut down so much stuff before attempting to shut down the PC in some tests that there hasn't been much left. Also, I don't think there would be anything like that on the 98SE HDD.
Thanks for link Halo. Again, I'll check that out when back on my PC.Thanks too for having a look at Sapphire site. Yes, I've read that I should be very nervous about updating BIOS. Not sure that I'm game to try it.
Maybe change title to: "Power down (shut down) sometimes hangs "

 

Re: hyper threading prevents power down?

OK, no positive results yet.
What about this for a theory...
I have been sitting here for about 5 1/2 hours turning my PC on and off and recording what happens (as well as trying different things). I notice that the failure to power down increases the longer I go on. I had 10 successful shutdowns without a problem at first, but I've had 4 failures in the last 7 attempts.
That made me start thinking about temperatures.
Everest has the following values at present:
Motherboard 77C 171F
CPU 38C 100F
Aux 35C 95F
HDD 44C 110F

Something tells me that MOBO temp might be something to do with the problem. All those in favour say 'that's too high!'

(MB specs are given in first post)

 

Re: hyper threading prevents power down?

One more thing you might consider: the slow shutdowns or hangs may be network-related - try disabling any modems, NICs, or network printers, see if your symptoms change...

 

Thanks Caliban and plodr.
I have tried safe mode, booting with no network adapter (forgot to mention those two in earlier posts) and clean boots, which I thought would take care of any network problem, but I'll see what happens if I physically disable those.
I've shut down everything I could lay my hands on in task manager, but the problem still occurs.
Interestingly, when I booted just now (PC has been off for several hours), MOBO temp was not much different:
Motherboard 76C 169F
CPU 28C 82F
Aux 30C 86F
HDD 25C 77F

I guess I should check on BIOS settings too - isn't there an option there to disable CPU protection from overheating? It may tell me what the critical temps are too. 168F is getting up to egg frying range though...:confused

 

Not back quickly enough to edit previous post. Sorry.

BIOS - PC Health Status - Shutdown is set at 70C/158F. I suppose that's the CPU temp. Other options are 65C, 60C and disable.
BIOS also gives current CPU temp, and System temp (38C) - don't know what that is measuring.

 

Still no joy after trying all suggestions. I guess I wasn't too optimistic about Task Manager options, seeing the same thing happens with the W98 SE HDD running. I'm thinking of trying another CPU (I have another one around somewhere). Any think that could help?

 

Hmmm... Might have found the answer to this. (If you don't want the story, go straight to *** below)
Got a flat screen monitor for my birthday a few weeks ago. Decided to set it up as main screen, and use the old CRT monitor as a second screen.
Found an old Video card in an old PC and put it in to give a second video outlet. It was an AGP card, unfortunately (maybe), which I found couldn't be paired with the onboard, which uses the same software or something.
Went hunting and found a PCI card, which I put in and which worked. Dual monitors now.
And since doing that, the PC hasn't failed to shut down once!
***Seems there must be something amiss with the onboard AGP (which I'm no longer using), or something connected to that.