Power Supply Question

Hey guys!
I am looking to buy a new pc, and a bigger one than I used to have, meaning properly suited for gaming without costing my soul, hahaha.

Anyway, I am wondering something about power supply units. I know old PC's had a heavy psu, of 500 watt and upwards. Modern / young machines I see a lot of 300-ish watt tops. I read somewhere that new machines don't require those heavy psu anymore and can do easy with lighter ones.

It's been a while that I bought a normal PC, so I am very out of the loop..
What is true? Do new PC's no longer those heavy psu, or is it a myth and is the heavy psu still mandatory?thank you, in advance

 

Yes. No. Maybe. Meaning you have to be specific to get a specific answer.

In general, computer hardware is more efficient these days - meaning they waste less power per 100w than they used to.

But at the same time, a lot of today's hardware is MUCH faster and MUCH MORE powerful. So if doing the exact same amount of work, today's hardware may consume less power. But because it can do much more work in less time, it may ultimately consume more power.

Clear as mud, huh?

Let's put it this way. 10 years ago, a machine with a dual-core processor, simple integrated graphics solution, and 2GB of RAM used to create a Word document, process email and play solitaire might have needed a 300W supply. Modern "budget" hardware could do those same simple tasks with a 150W PSU.

But today, there are 12-core processors, 16 and 32GB of RAM, graphics cards that consume more power than CPUs. And these computers are used for playing very resource hungry games, or graphics editing or other very demanding tasks - much more quickly.

So yeah, today's hardware is more efficient, but it is doing much more work more quickly.

If you are buying a pre-built computer, you have to assume the builder will use a PSU that is adequate for the job. It may be just adequate, but still adequate.

If you are building your own or having one custom built for you, then I recommend using the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator to determine your minimum and recommended power supply unit (PSU) requirements. Plan ahead and plug in all the hardware you think you might have in 2 or 3 years. This might include extra drives, a bigger or 2nd video card, more RAM, etc. I recommend setting Computer Utilization to 16 hours per day and CPU Utilization to 100%. These steps adjust for capacitor aging and ensure the supply has adequate head room for stress free (and perhaps quieter) operation. These steps also add a little buffer for unplanned future upgrades or added hardware demands.

Note that all PSU calculators pad the results a little to avoid recommending an underpowered supply. But, by far, the eXtreme Outer Vision PSU calculator is the most conservative and therefore accurate. This is also because it is so flexible with so many input and utilization options. Plus (and this may be the most important factor) they have a group of researchers on staff constantly researching the components for us. And, we've already padded the results a little with the Computer and CPU utilization settings, and potential future hardware additions.

 

I am not going to build one myself, for a change. I usually do that, but at the moment I'm not feeling like it - out of the loop for too long XD

It is pretty vague indeed, but what you wrote about the manufacturer putting in a PSU that is suited for the build makes a LOT of sense. If desired, I can always change it to a different one.

I have a few machines in mind, but not sure which would be better. I do know one thing - graphics are NOT to be built-in (integrated / on board) Total nightmare in my experience.. For a laptop, fine, but not in a PC anymore
Would it be okay, if I posted here, or messaged you about them?

 

Excellent advice from Digerati for you to consider

When I recently built my new desktop I also ran the number in several PSU calculators including the eXtreme Outer Vision one.

The only thing I would add is that what ever is suggested by these calculators, I would add at least 30-40% on top of the recommendation this to do with PSU efficiency over time

I have a Corsair 650W (RM650i) whereas calculators said I needed only 450W

 

You say "anymore" but in reality, integrated graphics (in laptops and PCs) today are better than ever. That is due, in part, to the lessons learned over the years with integrated graphics in laptops and PCs.

If not doing hard core gaming or graphics editing, I would not hesitate to use or recommend going with a processor and board that supports integrated graphics in a PC. Integrated graphics can easily deal with YouTube and other "HD" video viewing, as well as email, Office tasks, social media and more. And it can support those tasks while costing less to purchase, consuming less power, and generating less heat - all very good thing.

Even many of today's games play very well with modern integrated graphics.

It is important to remember that game developers understand that most gamers don't have $400, $500 or more just for a graphics card. In fact, many gamers have budgets or $500 or less for their entire computers. So game developers code their games to provide good "game play" even on those lessor systems.

Sorry, but I do not agree with this - at least not with the eXtreme Outervision PSU calculator (the only one I use or recommend), and this is for all the reasons I already pointed out.

1. All calculators already pad the results so they do not underestimate the needs.
2. The eXtreme Outer Vision calculator determines the needs, then recommends a PSU a little bigger to add yet a little more buffer.
3. They have a team of researchers to ensure accuracy.
4. I already recommended changes to the default settings for Computer and CPU Utilization (which is for aging), and future upgrades too - which pads the results even more.
5. Efficiency and output capacity are not the same thing. A drop in efficiency does NOT imply a drop in output capacity.​

That's fine. You can always buy more than you need and not hurt anything but your wallet. Just don't buy less than what you need.

It is important to understand how PSUs work, and how efficiency affects that.

The computer (motherboard, RAM, drives, graphics, fans) will draw from the PSU only what it needs, not what the PSU is capable of delivering. If a computer needs 300 watts it will draw 300 watts regardless if the PSU is a 400W, 650W, or 1000W PSU. In turn, the PSU, regardless its size, will draw from the wall only what it needs to support the computer and not what the PSU is capable of delivering.

For example, if you by a PSU that has an average efficiency of 85%, in this example with that 300W demand, the PSU will draw from the wall 353W. That's 300 watts for the computer plus another 53 watts due to PSU inefficiency (353 X .85 = 300.05 W). The extra 53W is wasted in the form of heat.

If the efficiency does decrease over time to, for example 80%, all that means is the PSU will now draw from the wall the exact same 300 watts, plus another 75w due to inefficiency (375 X .8 = 300W).

Note the PSU is still able to produce those needed 300W. It just consumes from the wall an additional 22W to do so. And note too any 1/2 way decent PSU will include a fan more than capable of dealing with that - especially since it is extremely rare for PSUs to run at or even near capacity for extended periods of time.

PSUs do age but there is no need to add 30 - 40% on top of what the calculator recommends. The eXtreme calculator already includes a buffer in the recommendation for that. In fact if certain you will not be adding additional drives or RAM, or upgrading to a more power hungry CPU or graphics solution in the future, there's no need to add any extra headroom to compensate for aging.

That said, if the calculator recommends 450W, I would generally recommend 550 - 600W. But that is NOT for PSU aging. It is to ensure the PSU is big enough should I decide to upgrade my hardware a couple years down the road. One other advantage is it will most likely allow the PSU fan to run a little slower when the PSU is heavily tasked - thus make less fan noise. Less fan noise is always good.

Speaking of quality PSUs, don't try to trim the budget with a cheap one. Buy one from a reputable maker. I like EVGA and Seasonic. The upper tier models from Corsair are fine, but I would avoid their entry-line model. I also recommend getting at least 80 PLUS "Bronze" certified, though "Gold" is my preferred. Unless you get a really good deal on a Platinum or Titanium, they just are not worth it. It would take too many years (if even possible) to recoup their extra costs in energy savings.

 

Shows how out of the loop I am, hahaha. Thank you for your info, Digerati, it did teach me a good few new things. Last time I built a PC is about.. 5, 6 years ago? Maybe longer..only been replacing parts that croaked until I got the laptop.

I am a budget gamer, exactly what you mentioned. And budget is almost spot on, too hahaha.
I prefer mainly older games, such as Blizzard games. 'Newest' I want to play, would be Sniper Elite 4. Seeing as pretty much all new PC's can handle that, I should be settled for the coming 5 or 6 years at least.

Now the problem arises, of making a good choice that'll last some years.

Thank you again, guys, for your info

 

If you built a PC in the past, and have replaced components here and there, you should not feel "out of the loop" or that building a PC today would be too challenging. The fact is, most better cases make putting together a PC easier today. And with modular PSUs allowing us to use only the cables we need, that makes it easier too.

That said, there is no shame in wanting someone else to build them. For one, since Dell or HP can go to ASUS, Crucial, Intel and Microsoft and promise to buy 1,000,000 motherboards, RAM sticks, CPUs, and Windows licenses over the next 12 months, they can demand and get huge discounts. So it is very difficult for self-builders to beat their prices.

Plus, when someone else builds it, they must provide the technical support - at least for awhile.

 

The ready-builds are well put together I think, and it's not really worth it anymore to build my own (aside of the fact I can't at the moment). Prices are neck to neck, little to no difference between a finished one and loose parts.

Plus side of the ready builds is indeed the service, and the warranty - not always getting that when building your own..sadly.

If it's okay, I'll try to post the ones I've been looking at. The old ideas I have / had about the power supply and things still has me a little worried about them burning up within a year or two (happened once, man did it stink XD ).
I hope I don't come across as annoying or anything.. I am one of those who tend to overthink and worry over things :S

Pages are different, am trying to find them in English so it makes sense to (pretty much) everyone

https://www.euronics.ee/t-en/91523/...esktop-pc-msi-infinite-8rg/infinite-8rb-255eu
(Found a few more, near identical, so won't be posting them unless wanted)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-Infinite-8RA-032EU-i5-8400-DDR4-SDRAM/dp/B07RGC9PYC#detail_bullets_id

The other I had been thinking about, is sold out over here, so won't be searching for a link to that one (MSI Trident 3)

I am not sure, how they'll hold up.. Hope they'll be suited for my gaming wishes (and perhaps some light editing of home videos of my pets )
Cooling is a different point, though I am convinced that they're equipped enough by the factory that build them. Extra cooling is easy to provide by a nice, BIG fan - that lives n my living room anyway, this summer we hit 40C indoors here.. horrible..

 

I had a PC wrecked by the PSU faulting out, fried the motherboard, cpu and ram. since then I only buy the best I can afford, usually the Corsair gold. I have a ten year old PC with a Corsair PSU, not cheap at the time but still working perfectly. I think it is better to have a unit that is a bit bigger rather than smaller, not a lot of difference in price, I like 650W. As for hot summers, here in Western Australia we can get a week or more over 38C, must agree it is horrible. Many Xmas days we have sweltered in high temperatures, when I was a kid we always had the traditional roast dinner so you can imagine what it was like. Ironically now we all live in air conditioning we have cold meals and salads. We are a weird bunch.

 

You should NEVER EVER use an under-powered (over-loaded) power supply. If lucky, your computer will simply crash and hopefully will not corrupt your drive. But if unlucky, the supply could over-heat with catastrophic and possibly deadly results.

As for your 10 year old Corsair, it is important to note things have changed at Corsair. Years ago, if the Corsair name was on the power supply, you knew you had a top quality supply. But sadly, they started living on their brand name. They switched OEM suppliers for their entry-level and budget lines. Those are not of the same quality as they used to be. Their top tier lines are still top tier supplies. But I don't recommend their entry-level supplies any more.

 

From my reading the Corsair RM X series seem to be okay, I like to stick to the brands I know.

 

Yes, the RM x series are good.

Brand loyalty is pretty much human nature. I think most of us are that way - going both ways. That is, we stick with brands that have served us well, but we also avoid brands that didn't.

But that's not always the best policy - especially in competitive markets where brands continually "leap-frog" over each other, taking turns being in the lead.

And of course, markets change, as do company leaderships and policies. Corsair is certainly not the only company that used to be untouchable, but sat on their laurels and either changed in a bad way, or didn't change and adjust then failed to keep up with the competition. Intel was king and thought they were invincible. Then AMD leap-frogged over it. It took over 10 years for Intel to leap-frog back into the lead and for sure, AMD is constantly nipping at their heels again - with some models leading in their class.

That, of course, is all good for promoting and creating incentives for competition. And competition is always good for us consumers.

All I am saying, if you are shopping for a new PSU, its okay to look at Corsairs. But just do your homework before buying. Not all Corsairs are the best in their class. Check the competition too.

Read the "professional" reviews. Do not rely too much on "user reviews" at sites like Amazon or Newegg unless many reviews have the same complaint about the exact same model. Sadly, many poor reviews are given because the box looked like it fell off the FedEx truck, the post office delivered it a day late, or UPS delivered it to the house next door, or the Amazon description said it was blue when it really was gray.

 

To go along with "D"s comments and your choice - the Cosair RM X series - here is a descriptive comparison between the RM, RM X and the RMi, three similar models available in several wattage ranges around 450-1000. Very little difference in $ give a better buy, even within the same manufacturer line up.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-rm750x-power-supply,4303.html