Question about product keys (again)

I asked this once before, and didn't really get anywhere.... we have an Acer laptop here, and the ink on the Windows 7 product key sticker on the bottom of the laptop has worn off to the point where we can only read that it is a Windows 7 Home Premium sticker, and we can read maybe 2 or 3 characters in each group (there's five groups and each group has 5 mixed numbers and letters). The majority of the characters are totally illegible or completely missing. However, it is possible to install Win7 w/o using a product key, so we did that thinking that we would then use the activation wizard to contact Microsoft, which we did. They told us to call Acer. We explained that the laptop was purchased used by a client, the hard drive had crashed, we installed a new hard drive with a clean OS and are now trying to make it legal. They said "use the recovery partition" not understanding that the hard drive had crashed and that we installed a brand new hard drive. They then said "use the recovery software". Again, we told them the PC was purchased 2nd hand, and no discs were available (a bit of research showed later that the PC did NOT ship with recovery software when it sold new). They told us to "call Microsoft", to which we replied "they told us to call you". So, we called Microsoft again, and demanded a supervisor after struggling to explain the scenario to 4 or 5 different people. We were finally told that we "should not re-install Windows 7 (or Vista or XP) from an OEM disc" and that we are required "to use recovery software or the recovery partition". To which we replied "then what is the product key even for if we aren't technically allowed to use a different disc to install Windows". They said "it's for use with the recovery software", to which we responded "recovery software does not require the use of a product key; the product key is 'built into' the installation, and when the install has completed, the recovery software installs a fully activated OS". To which Microsoft replied "......uhhhhh......*long awkward silence*....", to which we replied "Look, we're trying to do the right thing here and make this PC legal with Microsoft; it has a valid legal COA product key sticker, but it has been rendered illegible from wear", to which they replied "we cannot give you a new product key; you must either purchase a new operating system, or you can contact Acer for recovery software". So, no-one at Microsoft had a suitable solution. They basically accused us of installed bootlegged/pirated software, when all we wanted was to make the PC legal and legit, and the folks at Acer had absolutely no clue as to what we were even talking about. Their customer support people do not know anything about PCs, not even the basics. When we told them the HD had crashed, and new drive was installed, they told us to use the recovery partition. Duh. So- despite our best attempts (and 4+ hours of serious frustration on the phone; 3hrs and 15m of which was waiting on hold), we still have a non-activated PC.

Uhhhh.... :confused I forgot where I was going with this.... :-o Sorry about the long and likely boring diatribe. Does anyone have any input?

 

IF the old HDD was able to get running just 1 more time, you could install something like SIW that can tell you what the COA is that was already on the machine.

 

Was a guy I know did write his key code down.
Problem was, he wrote it into WordPad then saved it.
Being paranoid because someone might possibly read it, he encrypted it, put it into a folder, then password protected the folder, then as an extra precaution, he set the properties to hidden.

 

Generally when i repair a laptop under warranty and get a hard drive sent back its preloaded with an os, and or the drive has the normal install plus recovery partition . (Most often this is a dell). The problem may be that the dont understand you didn't rma a drive through them assuming you just bought a new hard drive, most do. Also to keep in mind, I know dell has a tool to restore a recovery partition to its original state, that they sometimes allow licensed shops to have. Not that it helps ya, but maybe gives you some options to try to banter with acer.

 

The current owner of the laptop is somewhat noobish and naive, and was not aware of anything like licensing requirements and COAs and product keys. He bought the laptop used -he's at least the 2nd owner, likely the 3rd- and knew the hard drive needed replacement when he bought it. It's a decent laptop, about 18mon old, DVDRW, 2gb RAM, Centrino CPU (I think). He only paid $60 for it knowing he'd need a hard drive replacement. So we know that warranty replacement is not a possibility. The laptop runs great now that the new HD is installed. He simply wants the laptop to be legal and legit, and we're trying our damnedest, but it seems like Microsoft's licensing dept would rather accuse us of trying to circumvent their rules than try to actually help us do THE RIGHT THING!!! I still have a hard time believing that they told us that we "are not supposed to reload Windows from an OEM (or "system builder") disc". So- does that mean that someone at Dell uses a new install disc on EVERY computer that comes out their factory? No.

 

Not an answer to your questions but I found the first answer here http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/genuinevista/thread/a4e1ea1d-fae7-4711-9f70-07839455dd58 interesting explaining the difference between the OEM SLP and the COA SLP. Maybe it answers your last question about DELL.

 

The old HD was totally dead, totally inaccessible, just nasty click-grind-snrk-klak type sounds. Regardless, when a PC is sold new with a functional Windows OS on it, the pre-installed product key never matches the product key on the sticker. The pre-installed key is an OEM key. If you bought 5 Dell Inspiron 700m laptops brand new with WinXP Home installed (a few years ago), they would all have the same pre-installed (and pre-activated) product key, but each would have a unique product key on the sticker. This is why extracting a key via SIW (or the much more useful ProduKey which can extract keys from remote drives; you can take a non-booting drive and hook it up as drive E: on a functional PC and ProduKey can pull the key from it; it also works from a preinstall environment and can extract Office keys which is usually much more useful; you'd be surprised at how many people buy Office, install it, then proceed to lose the install disc and product key) is generally pointless in scenarios like this. Chances are, it was the original factory drive with the original factory OS installed. Extracting the key would let us run the PC for 30 days. Pre-installed OEM product keys will NOT activate when the time comes. I've even tried calling MS licensing and speaking with a supervisor: they will not activate or provide a replacement for an OEM product key. But since the drive in this particular situation has completely crashed, extracting a product key is a moot point.

 

Just a thought that IMHO Dell should be forced to use better ink or cover the product key sticker with some sort of glued plastic or whatever to protect that most important key. Dell certainly knows that laptops won't stay put in the same place as desktop PC's do and therefore are more apt to get damaged or worn on the outside. Or perhaps we should do that ourselves as soon as we get a laptop? Dells Done "al cheapo". Don't know about other mfrs.

I feel sorry for your client and others who have the same problem.

 

One other thing that I wanted add as an addendum to my first post.... you can install both Vista and Windows7 WITHOUT a product key!!! You can run the system for 30 days before being locked out, or being forced in to a "reduced functionality mode". This feature alone more-or-less negates everything that we were told by the folks at Microsoft. The fact that Windows can be installed without a product key being required at the time of install, points to the idea that you would be using a non-recovery disc, and would be likely using a retail install disc or a "system builder" disc, which is also called an "OEM disc" but should not be confused with an "OEM recovery/restore disc". An OEM disc is a basic Windows install disc with no documentation other than a small pamphlet, and a legit product key; a "retail install disc" is usually in a big box with lots of documentation, fancy packaging, etc.; an "OEM recovery/restore disc" usually ships with the PC at the time of purchase and will have the PC maker's name on the disc (like HP or Compaq or Acer, for example); these discs typically (but not always) include the drivers and additional software (like trial versions of Office, Norton, etc).

 

:dood T H A N K Y O U ! ! !
This is a HUGE issue with the last 'generation' of XP stickers, and most (if not all) Vista and Win7 stickers. The earlier XP stickers are virtually indestructible thru normal use and are printed on vinyl (or some other type of plastic; newer stickers are on VERY weak paper). You can even spray the sticker with 409 and scrub it and the ink stays put. If you tried this with the newer sticker, the ink would go first, then the sticker would completely disintegrate. I actually think this is a "marketing" ploy to "force" people in to buying new operating systems.

(edit - it's not just Dell, it's ALL the big PC makers, and Microsoft themselves; the newer stickers are totally weak and IMO it's fairly obvious that they are not designed to withstand any type of wear, even through normal use of a laptop; some laptop makers have started putting the stickers under the battery which is a VERY refreshing and MUCH appreciated move, and was probably started because of public outcry about the crappy quality of COA stickers)

 

Just a thought... if anyone reading this is an owner of a newer laptop (since about 2007/2008), do yourself a favor and record the product key from the sticker on the bottom of your laptop! If you have restore/recovery discs (which are getting more and more rare with new PCs), write the product key on the CD envelope (remove the disc before writing on the envelope), AND write it down somewhere else (most people lose the recovery discs). Creating your own sticker and sticking it in the battery compartment under the battery is VERY good idea! Be sure to put the version of Windows you have on the sticker also (Windows XP Professional, Vista Home Premium, Windows 7 Starter, etc; this is important). Believe me, if you need to reload the Windows, and you can't find the recovery discs, you'll be screwed without having the product key....

 

I took my moms laptop with Vista and engraved the key onto the side of the battery. Not the bottom but a inside part which wont get rubbed on. I doubt she would ever run into problems or replace the battery and if she did it would be taking care of it anyway. Just a idea for "key backup."

 

I use ZuluPad from: http://www.gersic.com/zulupad/
for anything, about everything.

See thumbnail for an example of some of the Subjects I have saved info on.
Also Licence Keys example (abbreviated example) :-D

Under Abbreviations, for example, is:
½ = Alt + 0189 (half)
£ = Alt + 0163 (Pommie pound)
é = Alt + 0233 (e acute)
° = Alt + 0176 (degree symbol)
¥ = Alt + 0165 (Yen symbol)?
© = Alt + 0169 (copyright)
² = Alt + 0178 (squared)
€ = Alt + 0128 (Euro)
Õ = Alt + 0213 (Capital O with tilde)
to remind me of some that I use occasionally. :-D

Two warnings.

• It becomes really addictive. :major
• Always save at least 2 backups to external devices, as well as your C: drive. Sometimes, for some reason, it can't find your C: drive file.
The info you will build up becomes invaluable, like tips, tricks for Windows 7, Serial and Hardware keys, MG replies to my questions, etc.

I am always adding to this file, daily.
I am about to buy the Pro version to store jpg's etc.

Bazza

 

Sound interesting, bazza.
Just downloaded and will be trying it out.

 

Beware. It really is ADDICTIVE. :-D

Bazza

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May become handy in the job I'm in.
Tracking customers, sales, phone numbers.
Looks very promising so far.

 

As you can see by my Categories/Headings/Subjects, you can track anything/everything in the one program. :cool

Best of luck and remember, keep more than one copy every time you exit the program. The info becomes more valuable, the more you use it.

Bazza

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