Question on defragging.

Discussion in 'Software' started by hrlow2, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    I have already turned System Restore off to remove old points.
    Have removed all unwanted and unneeded programs and folders.
    Yet when I defrag, it always shows as being 15%+ fragmented.
    Cannot get lower than that and cannot find out which files or folders is fragmented.
    Question is "How can I find out or get a better defragging?"
     
  2. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi Hrlow

    What app are you using to measure defrag status?

    What Windows version and Service Pack, plus whats the file format of your HDD?


    In part some fragmentation can happen more if you are using FAT32 over NTFS, but it can also happen with the pagefile if thats needed to be used alot due to lack of RAM.

    I would run the likes of O&O Defrag (many others are free HERE also, JKdefrag and Defraggler are ok also)

    Could run defrag in Safe Mode and that way most applications are not running to cause any issues and see how your % fragmentation stacks up then, as its likely a running app or locked file that can or may not be able to be defragged.

    Do you backup your PC to the HDD in question with an imaging app?
     
  3. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    1: UltimateDefrag (freeware version).
    2: XP Home SP3 Format is NTFS. !.5GB PC-3200 RAM.

    All backups go to an external drive.
    Will try the Safe Mode and report.
     
  4. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    Went to Safe Mode.
    Asked which I wanted to boot to.
    Only option of ANY OS was an xxClone copy.
    Had tried to clone to another drive before, but certainly not to the one being copied.
    Fragmentation in Safe Mode was 0.006%.
    Went back to Normal mode, fragmentation now shows as 15.095%.
     
  5. mjnc

    mjnc MajorGeek

    Hi hrlow2

    The paging file could be a big part of that.

    You could turn off paging on that drive, temporarily, or move it to another
    partition, temporarily, then reboot, defrag, then turn paging back on.

    Also, wondering if there is stuff in the Recycle Bin, does that get defraged?

    I use PageDefrag set to run on every boot with zero second delay.

    Rather than turning System Restore OFF, you could use CCleaner's > Tools > System Restore
    to delete some old restore points, except for the most recent point.

    Don't know if the Hibernation file, C:\hiberfile.sys, can get fragmented.
    If it is, that file is as big as your RAM, which is 1.5 gigabytes!!

    You could defrag that by turning Off hibernation, reboot, check to see that
    the file has been deleted
    , then re-enable hibernation.
     
  6. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi hrlow

    I would as well as go through mjnc's great post, also do try another defrag app just to see if yours is reporting wrongly.

    But definatly if you dont hibernate your PC, disable hibernation, the file that is produced can be large and as its likely to be a system locked file, it may not get defragged.
     
  7. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    Page file is turned off. Don't feel needed with 3.5GB RAM and less than 2 GB ever being used.
    Recycle Bin emptied daily.
    Don't do Hibernation,either. Folding 24/7 or working on it.
    Or else it's powered down for a breather.
     
  8. motc7

    motc7 Vice Admiral (Starfleet)

  9. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Ah even with the pagefile off, some is always used even if you set it at no page file, Windows is weird like that and a system managed one is worth doing even with 3.5GB of ram, I have 6GB and still use the default setting as the system will use ram first anyway over the PF.

    Some info on Virtual Memory/Page file HERE and HERE

    So do check your pagefile.sys file out for its size, its a hidden file, generally in the root of C: or what drive you last had it located on, so while Windows may not use it when set to not use a pagefile, its not gone.



    A bit of overkill to defrag a system thats likely not suffering too badly from the 15% or miss reporting frangmentation.


    But would still like to see what another app makes of the degree of fragementation.
     
  10. mjnc

    mjnc MajorGeek

    Thanks for the links, David.
    I have read the aumha article before, but the pagefile size issue is really confusing because there is so much conflicting info and advice on the web.

    The recommendations in those two articles seem to be in sync.

    Also helpful were the suggestions HERE about the placement of the pagefile and also this Microsoft article about How to move the paging file in Windows XP

    P.S.
    There is a link on the aumha page for XP Pagefile Monitor which is a great little utility for tracking actual pagefile usage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
  11. motc7

    motc7 Vice Admiral (Starfleet)

    Well, I agree that 15 percent is really not an issue. But, ultimately, he's going to have to move away from XP someday. Maybe this is an excuse to?
     
  12. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    Pretty drastic measures when all he is wanting is to defrag. And many business's and people are sticking with XP due to programs that they use that don't work on Win7.
     
  13. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    Getting ready to give this machine to a friends family as an upgrade to their older P3 powered machine.
    Trying to get it as good as possible first.
    Machine is pretty fast as is, but just irritates me that the numbers won't come down.
    Still don't understand about the boot-up option being an xxClone copy, though.
     
  14. mjnc

    mjnc MajorGeek

  15. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    Just the 1 C partition on the drive.
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Private E-2

    15% fragmentation could be system files other than the page file- MFT, hibernation file etc.

    For the hibernation file (if there is one), you could disable hibernation, reboot, defrag and then re-enable hibernation.

    For the other system files, you could get the free trial versions of one of the reliable commercial autodefrag utilities, these evaluation versions work just like the full versions for about a month, which is (more than) sufficient time to clean out the drives.
     
  17. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Yeah I think so too on the pagefile, its similar to the hookum on Prefetch in Vista and Win7 and other myths et al

    I do tend to read the info from the likes of Mark Russinovich and other MSDN Blog posters from the various Windows and WSSD teams, and more often than not they say leave it alone for Windows to manage, especially in the likes of Windows Vista and 7.


    Still would like to get to the bottom of the fragmentation % being at 15% still eeks of a locked system file or a mis-report, so hrlow if you have not already do try one of the defraggers that has been suggested espeically the O&O version 14 free as O&O have a great defragmentation routine and I user their pro version.

    Plus could you attach a startup log as per below, just also thinking on a 3rd party app causing this too, security mainly.



    Not used xxClone so not upto speed as to why this would have happened if you had not used a clone done with that app to install Windows on this HDD, but could you do a screenshot of the boot tab in msconfig?
     

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