Reccomend PCI-E Vid card for gaming.

I have a BIOSTAR P4M900M4 socket 478 Mo/bo, 350w PSU, 2.8GHZ/533mhz fsb CPU, I am looking for a 1GB, 128 bit or higher video card that would be decent for gaming; would like if it'd at least be able to handle w.o.w on it's highest Graphic settings. I have about 80 dollars to cover the cost and shipping.

Any suggestions?

 

Have a look at the reviews here and see if there is anything you like: http://www.tomshardware.com/

 

I found one cheap enough but I don't like some of the cons for it,

-Example-
"Cons: -1GB of DDR2 memory is a marketing trick. The DDR2 memory clock is 400MHz (compare this with the1000MHz of the DDR3 version). So as a result this card is twice slower then the 4670 cards tested in the popular reviews. This makes it useless for almost any game."

I can browse for video cards all day but I wont know what to look for that would best suit my PC for my gaming needs.

Any further help would be much appreciated,
Thanks.

 

Which model are you talking about here?

 

XFX HD-467X-ZDF2
*Update* Just noticed I can't use this card anyway, it has the wrong ports, My monitor is old.

 

Try this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102854&Tpk=HD4670 512MB

Cheaper, and has faster RAM. 512MB is all most games will use anyway so 1GB is really overkill that you don't need.

 

I don't know much when it comes to the matter but my CPU is a Pentium 4 socket 478 and when i play games it goes too 100% Usage and I assumed, the bigger graphic card i get the more load it'll take off the cpu. I'm guessing I'm way off..

 

The CPU usage will be affected by the graphics card, but probably only by about 10%, and if the game does not need more than x amount of RAM on the graphics card, and you have spare, then it will not be used for anything else.

Basically, the hard drive transfers game content to the normal RAM, via the processor, which is then transferred into the graphics card when it wants it (it caches ahead but that is decided by the target frame rate of the game) again via the processor, which has to be used to transfer everything to the correct place. Thus if you have more RAM on the graphics card more can be transferred at once, although the game will only transfer what it needs to a certain point.

 

well right now i can't play games at all, I even get 100% CPU usage from farmville "A facebook app" It's obvious that I need a gfx card. 100% - 10%= (90%) Which is good, as long as I'm no longer running at 100% and or getting 100% cpu usage from a simple web based app.

 

Sorry, had a power outage whilst updating my last post.

Based on the fact that you have an onboard chip, yes you are correct in that you need a graphics card. I did not realise before that you had an onboard chip, and as such you should expect to see you processor usage drop significantly, maybe by 60% or so.

 

Sorry i forgot to include that information, 60% that's even better, even 80 would be great, Maybe i'll try this card out and see how it does.

Thanks.

 

Just one more thing, I have a 350W PSU, That card takes 400W I believe, so i just need to buy a 400W psu, i don't know how all that works, it wont like fry my board would it? lol

 

Collins post#8 is a great explanation but misses one important point the memory interface is how much DATA can be communicated at any one point and the Vid Card (VC) memory can be great for games where you may back track often as the DATA will remain within the memory until it needs to be overwritten and can more rapidly be accessed by the GPU.

A couple of suggestions:

HIS H467QR1GH Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 $84.99, but if you can find a few more dollars this,

HIS H567Q512 Radeon HD 5670 (Redwood) 512MB 128-bit GDDR5 for $99.99 will give you DX11.0 options for Win7 in the future.

IMHO the HIS with the IceQ cooling are exceptional coolers (some of the best "stock") that exhaust the hot air out the rear of the case and could be crucial when running a P4.

As far as whether the PSU can power either I believe the worst that would happen is the PC just won't boot if the cards are underpowered.

A final point is we can see the cards offer VGA, DVI & HDMI outputs.

 

You can purchase DVI to VGA connectors to allow connection to your "old monitor" at very low cost.

AMC DVI-8700 DVI to VGA Adapter

also any video card with GDDR type ram is a plus compared to just DDR (imo)

 

those both seem nice, but in what way is the 512mb one better than the 1GB? all the specs on that one seem higher than the other; other than the 512 being GDDR5.

 

GPU Radeon HD 4670
Core Clock 750MHz
Stream Processors 320 Stream Processing Units
Memory
Memory Clock 1600MHz
Memory Size 1GB
Memory Interface 128-bit
Memory Type DDR3
3D API
DirectX DirectX 10.1

GPU Radeon HD 5670 (Redwood)
Core Clock 775MHz
Stream Processors 400 Stream Processing Units
Memory Clock 1000MHz (4.0 Gbps)
Memory Size 512MB
Memory Interface 128-bit
Memory Type GDDR5
3D API
DirectX DirectX 11

I have put in Bold each cards stronger points, the 4670 is a "year older" than the 5670.

The 5670 has:
- Faster GPU
- More Stream Processors
- Faster RAM (GDDR5)
- DX11.0 (for Win7), but
- Slower memory clock and less RAM

It will render graphics faster with greater depth/detail and have info delivered quicker via the GDDR5 RAM. It can take advantage of Win7 features and the latest games (more future proof....;-)). The 4670 is a bit slower for GPU but has more RAM and for games were you maybe loading screens frequently (moving between areas) may provide a slight "loading time" benefit. Both offer a kick arse cooling solution. I would take the 5670 hands down as it is the later series!

 

Point well taken lol. I have windows xp though will the card work with my OS? I doubt i'll be getting win 7 any time soon, I don't have the money for it, I'm kinda doing things as they come along (when i get the money for it) No way id ever be able to do it all at once; and there's so much more on the list, it never ends. lol.

anyway, thanks.

 

The DirectX is just an "up to" value, meaning the card will work with any OS up to Windows 7.

Sorry for forgetting the data bandwidth point.

As for the PSU, if the card requires a 400W PSU that means the card on it's own will probably require a significant portion of that. Therefore I would recommend at least a 650W PSU to make sure there is enough overhead to allow for future upgrades.

When you upgrade the PSU, make sure you get a good brand named one. The PSU is one of the most critical componets in your system and it blowing could tak out a lot of other components at the same time. Good brand name PSUs are less likely to blow, and if they do they are less likely to take anything else out as well. They also provide cleaner, more stable power, meaning that your computer will "live" longer and perhaps have a very slight performance increase due to the correct voltage and wattage and ampage being supplied at the right time.

Look here for a list of good/bad manufacturers: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=208143

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015

 

Corsair have a very well earned reputation with PSUs and it is rare to find any complaints about them:

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified $79.99 after rebate.

 

yeah that's one of the other ones i was looking at.

 

It's now 69.99 after rebate, I almost have enough pennies saved up for it :-D I heard some ppl don't see any rebates from new egg for months at a time though, so probably nothing much to be excited about.

 

I was reading up on the cons of that 512 ddr5 card and I'm just wondering if maybe someone could check it out and let me know if that's something I should worry about or not. Thanks.

 

You should also consider that your cpu will be a major bottleneck with new video cards.

If you buy a powerful card it likely wont perform up that what you expect or very well at all.

 

So now I'm back where i started, Yet again can someone recommend a Pci-e video card that will work well with my board and 2.8GHZ 533fsb Pentium 4 CPU?
AND be a DECENT Gaming card.

Thanks.

 

Yep:

The performance of the card by itself has no relation to the CPU. The relation is how fast the data can be fed to and from the card. Therefore one of these cards would be a good investment as it is relatively future-proofed.

 

I'm not going to interfere with the advice being given here but would like to point out something.
This post is just to enlighten the "Bad points" and while it may sting, when I was looking to do the same thing I was very greatful when the guys here gave me the same advise a long time ago.
While all the advise guys have given you is of stirling quality as usual, no one has mentioned that a new graphics card while up grading your performance considerably , isn't going to allow you into the world of heavy PC gaming. (At this point if you only want to play world of warcraft and online flash game etc, ignor my post) By WOW I'm presuming you mean World Of Warcraft and not COD: World At War (I know, some people refer to it as WOW)

My post is simply to help you avoid dissapointment, it's going to be great when you get your new hardware but don't expect to be throwing in Crysis on high or Resident Evil 5 at all! I'm not trying to put a damper on things but I've spent the last 14-18 months trying to upgrade my pc for gaming with very little funds and after thousands of pages of info on different subjects to do with pc gaming I have come to the conclusion that it's just not possible to have a "Cheap" gaming maching. When I say cheap I use the word "Cheap" as those who only earn min wage refer to it, not those earning $20+ per hour.
Bottom line is the upgrades you're looking for are going to boost your pc a LOT higher, but the rest of your system will hold you back from playing the latest games at playable FPS. Like I said, World of Warcraft and online flash games and mini games, older games and lightweight games (CSI's for example) will run fine, but Total wars, COD's, Resi Evils, Crysis and Bioshock to name a few are going to put your pc under intense pressure.

Again, I'm not trying to put a damper on things, just some info I think you should know.
Just trying to help as someone who has been in the same position.
Sometimes it's better not to upgrade if all you can do is a half hearted attempt, if you want to go high end, save you money and put up with a slower pc until you can afford higher end hardware, it's worth it in the long run.

 

Which games are you going to play

And yes Nedlamar that's the better way to put it.

 

Believe me, all i can afford is cheap hardware, But I'm probably gonna have at least 3 to $500.00 in this thing when it's all said and done. I'm not interested in playing top of the line high end games right now, Maybe w.o.w like games on there highest settings and a few games at ijji.com like Soul of the ultimate nation; Yet again if id be able to play these games at there highest settings with out problem; Id say that's decent. But if i can't do that then I probably shouldn't waste my money on huge disappointment.

 

How much is your total budget?

 

May I suggest this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130292

I have this in my LGA 775 P4 rig and it does a good job.

I think the PSU you have now can handle it as it doesn't use much power at all. I personally ran one a 300 watt low end power supply that died like 2 years later.

 

As for a video card, I have 80 dollars i can spend total. I may be running into more money later on though.

 

Ok well like I said I was just trying to point out that spending little expecting lots will lead to major dissapointment. But if you're playing lightweight games then go for it. Everything in this thread suggested to you will most likely do what you want.

To check if the rest of your system is upto par goto www.canirunit.com

The software it installs is quick and safe and there are a lot of game listed that tells you whether or not you can run it. Although take the result with a pinch of salt.

I've run many med-high end games on a similar machine to yours but with an ATI x1950 pro and I ran then fairly well, playable anyway.

I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to put you off or big headed, I've been in exactly the same position as you so I know how frustrating it is, you just want to squeeze just a little more out of your system but it just wont do it lol

Having said all that, a pci-e card is always going to massively out perform onboard unless you have a major top of the line mobo and a crappy pci-e card.

 

I know of that site, a lot of the times all the specs will meet up, even with my old HP when i had my 256mb Pci card, yet the game would still lag. I'm just a bit confused now and..seeking advice.. there's no way before hand i can know that my system will play the games I mentionded before i get which ever video card; is it really gonna be worth it seeing that I'm not interested at all in playing high end games like the ones you mentioned?? Id really rather not waste my money if I'm not gonna be able to play any of the ones i listed or be stuck playing them on low settings.. What are the chances that I'll buy that card and be able to play those games on high settings??

 

Well there are quite a few variables there too. Is your machine running at peak or is it bogged down?
Shutting off proccessors like MSN and Anti spyware real time protection will help (DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK) I will never advise shutting them down but it's fact that they do put quite a load on the CPU/Ram, but any process you don't need while gaming should be shut down, this will make a big difference.
To be honest the games you speak of don't take much to run.......but then again you don't have much to run them with.
PCLover's suggestion of card would be your best bet IMO simply because it shouldn't require a PSU upgrade. This is the poblem with graphics, the stock PSU's in pre built machines always suck and unfortunately if you try and wack a heavy card on a cheap PSU (even one rated for the correct power) it can end in tears with the possibility of your whole system being trashed by it.
But the card PClover said I would think would be fine, you will certainly get a performance increase but how much I can't honestly say.

This is what I did (in short lol)
I had:
AMD xp64 2.4
1gb ram
300W PSU (crappy)
AGP Sapphire X700 512mb

First I got a psu, free cos it was old but it was a 550w.
Then a while later I got an AMD x2 6000 with Asus board and 2gb ram.
I then took my sons g-card when he upgraded, x1950pro 512.

There I sat for over 14 months desperately wanting to buy a new card but knowing on the advice of guys here that if I just get what I can afford then it's not going to do what I want.
I have now got myself a good 600w Coolermaster PSU, and Antec 900 case (good for cooling) and winging it's way to me as we speak is a Sapphire HD4890 Vapor X 2gb graphics card.
I've done masses of research and have finally settled on something I can....

A: Afford
B: Going to do what I want it too
C: Future proofed myself for at least a while.

Basically, I'm now happy ..........for a while anyway lol

So in the end, how much do graphics mean to you right now?
If the game runs fine but looks kinda crappy then get the card PClover said, if you want it to run and look great then save a bit more money and get a higher card and PSU.

Thats what I did and although it took me a while, I did it.

Bottom line, owning a lower end machine you are not going to turn it into a PS3 for $80
But worth $80 for a bit of a boost.
My opinion anyway, I just want to see everyone happy lol


EDIT: Ok I just checked out the WOW specs and everything suggests to run it on high you need a Dual core CPU
This type of game is more reliant on CPU than Graphics given that it says Recommended g-card is minimum x1600 but CPU is dual core.
So I would hazzard an educated guess that a new g-card may make it look a little better but probably wont allow you to run it maxed.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/faq/technology.html

Harsh but true. Sorry I couldn't give you better news.

 

Well right now if I try to play a game or even something as simple as farm ville on face book, I get 100% CPU Usage, But My board as of yet isn't maxed out with possible Upgrades, I have a 2.8GHZ 533MHZ fsb P4 and 1 GB DDR2 Ram, No video card; That's my system at this point yet I could max the memory to 4GB and even get a 3.2 to 3.4 800MHZ Fsb P4 AND a nice video card; if id be better off to do all of this and get a nice PSU and better video card, id rather do that. what do you think? Besides as i've been told many times, some of the hardware i'll be buying can be used with a new and better board/CPU when i can afford to upgrade(honestly ive seen dual core boards and cpu combs for less than $200.00). This sounds like a great idea.

This might answer a lot of your questions, I'm not interested in computers much aside from gaming, so Graphics and performance are really important to me. If you have to play a game on low settings then there's really no point in playing it. Though I may consider getting that card that wont require me to buy a PSU, just to hold me over a while..

I also believe that if you want to play games that are for xbox 360, ps3 and PC, Just buy a game system, there's no need to get it for a pc, id rather play the game on PS3 or the 360.

 

Ok well realistically speaking I would avoid cheap g-card, since you're 100% on CPU then you could have a bug of some sort or like I said, you're bogged down.
In either case if PC gaming is all you do then save your money up and get yourself a decent PSU and g-card. A card like an HD4850 or 4870 will cost you around $125-$160 depending on where you get it and will require you to spend around $60-100 on a PSU. Your cpu will undoubtedly bottleneck the card but will work fine. But like I said, your CPU is a large part of the problem too.
Maybe look into a mobo/cpu combo with onboard for now and then get a g-card. It's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other really. But some of the onboard video's are not bad, not great but would certainly improve your experience right off the bat.

Basically I wouldn't go for a cheap g-card at this point since you're just spending money only to have it let you down when you upgrade the rest.

What will probably happen is you'll get the cheap g-card and then later on get a decent cpu/mobo and want to ventre into heavier games, then the g-card is going to let you down and this process will start all over again.

For $400-450 you could set yourself up with a half decent gaming machine using your existing case, HDD etc. If you spend $80 now then you are $480-530 from this point in time. Put your $80 in a pot and grin and bare the sluggish gaming for a while, you'll be glad in the end.

Also look into the possibility that you may have a virus or bug of some sort, defrag your system, clean it right up, get rid of progs you don't need/want. Check your process list, how many processes do you have running?
If you have the game set on high then turn it down, if your CPU is maxing with it on low then you have a software issue because WOW only requires a P4 1.3 to run on minimum.

Edit: You said playing a game on low is pointless, while I semi agree you have to realise the biggest part of any game is gameplay, not looks. Personal preference I know but try adjusting the settings until you find a happy medium, lets just say that I love gaming and have been gaming for over 25 years and since pc gaming I have never been able to play a game less than 3 years old maxed out..........until tommorrow :-D

 

Well there is preferences

I like pc gaming much better then console gaming.

I wouldn't upgrade the CPU and ram on your pc on an old board.


I would suggest like a 8600gt and save money for a new rig if you really want a new vid card now. You probably wouldn't need to upgrade your PSU to use it.

 

Oh no no, I didn't mean upgrade the cpu/ram on existing board, god no! lol
If thats how it came across I apologize.

But yeah he said he has $80 period which kind of eliminates the upgrading of a PSU. so thats why I said save up some money and go for a new cpu/mobo setup with decent onboard and then go for g-card later on. I dunno, I think that would be the best path to take but thats my opinion.

 

I think my best option from all that ive read here would be to forget about wasting any more money on the s478 board and invest in a new board and cpu; dual core. As i said i have seen some such combos on new egg for less than 200.00. When all is said and done I'm not gonna be happy with the 478 board no matter what, so whats the point in spending any more money on it??? Now i believe i should be asking for recommendations on a dual core board, CPU & SATA CD Drive for roughly 200 dollars; if i can get a dual core board i can run a IDE HD on; I have everything else. Just to get started anyway.

 

This is a good deal http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.321822 . It's the newer version of the board I have and a 2.9Ghz dual core AMD X2 Regor. $136. It does support 2 IDE devices. Most newer boards.
only have 1 IDE connecter now. A SATA DVD drive runs around $25 on Newegg.

ATI Radeon 4850 cards (256-bit memory bus, GDDR3 memory) are good, run about $130. A nVidia 9800GT series card (256-bit bus, DDR3 memory) run about the same. A nVidia 260-216 costs a bit more but the 448-bit bus, DDR3 memory makes it a fast card. They go for around $195 though.

Sam

 

You can get a quad core amd and mobo for around 200

 

Nice, it says it only has one pata port,
you can run a CD drive and HD on the same one? lol.
Besides my confusion, sounds like a good deal, specially seeing that i'm gonna have $105.00; I should be able to save up the rest; from what it seems i wont need much more to set this up.

EDIT: What would this combo deal be like as a starter to build a decent gaming system?

 

how many of those support IDE?? I mean if i can manage to get my hands on another 100.00 this would be great lol.

Note on that other guys post...BIOSTAR??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Lol.... I mean umm I'm sure there not all as bad as mine... right? :confused

 

I like Asus boards

Some support IDE Devices you just have to look.

 

Yeah Ive always heard good things of asus boards, I just don't know what to look for as far as getting a board and cpu that would be a good start for a gaming system.

It'd be nice to be able to get a cpu, board and a sata cd drive in my budget of $200.00 and be able to use my current IDE HD, Case and ram as a starter.

Sounds like a worthy goal, just need a little help.
I don't wanna end up with another bottleneck one right after another.

 

Have to agree there, Asus boards have always been the way I go and no it's not just your Biostar board, they are prone for failure.

Just a quick look.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131398
Not a bad board with an equivelent of an HD4200 onboard. $85

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103688
Dual core AMD to match. $57

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148149
2gb RAM $50

Total = $192

Buying seperately often gets you more bang for your buck and Newegg only have a couple of Asus combo's.

But something like that would stand you in good stead for a while.
If you can push an extra $50 on top you could quad core.

But for this board you may need 1 or 2 of

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ..._re=sata_ide_converter-_-12-270-236-_-Product

Those to convert your ide to sata, although I'm not really up on converters so someone else would have to verify what type you'd want, never used them before lol

 

sweet deal, I'm gonna work on saving money and shut up for now, thanks for everyone's help..

Any other comments or suggestions are always appreciated though.


EDIT: One thing i notticed about that board "BE AWARE.. ASUS supports only asus graphics cards, If you buy this mother board for gaming, first check asus website to find cards that will run with asus programs"

 

Huh, never had that problem, but most asus onboard are based on ATI.
Anyway, that particular board on second glance would seem to have some issues, but when you're ready come back and I'm sure the guys here will point you in the right direction.

I just "quick found" that stuff to give you an idea of what you can get for not too much money, a more in depth look and ever changing sales/deals will greatly affect what you end up buying.

Glad to have helped, I've had enough help from this board and it's always nice to give something back.
Good luck with the funds, hope to see your "Ok I have the money" thread soon

Edit: Ok I went back again and looked and have to ask........where the heck did you see Asus boards only support asus cards? It's getting late here and I've been up since 5am but I can't see it anywhere and have to admit I've never heard of that before. I know some mobos just don't like certain cards but never heard Asus not supporting other brand cards, at least I've never come across this issue.

 

My main system is a Biostar TA790GX-128M with a AMD Phenom II X3-720BE 2.8ghz triple core. Had it for a year now and it runs fine. My HTPC system is a 6 year old Biostar K8NHA Grand nForce 3 board, has never had a problem. The systems I built for my Dad and brother (each one about 4-5 years old now) both have Biostar boards running Athlon 64 3400+ 2.4Ghz CPUs. Have used many Biostar boards over the past 15 years, never had a failure.

IDE: almost all new motherboards only have 1 IDE channel (supporting 2 devices). I have a IDE hard drive I put in mine to try out some Linux distros so they will work alone or alongside a SATA.

I'd go to www.newegg.com and look through the motherboard AND processor sections. Sometimes the combo deal is on the motherboard page, sometimes the CPU page. The AMD Regor deal was on the page for the Regor cpu, the page for the TA790GXE-128M didn't show that combo. So if a processor you're interested in doesn't have a combo listed, try a motherboard that processor fits in. There may be a combo there.

Sam