SATA RAID question

I really dont know much about this thing. so what is it, what's it do, and do I NEED IT?

I'm going to buy a new mobo, but the one I want is SATA RAID compatible and shit, and my HDD isn't SATA RAID. so do I need a HDD with it? or can I just plug in the IDE and power and be off and good to go?

 

Well, if SATA is the standard you are using, you wouldn't hav an IDE cable involved at all, unless your HDD is PATA, and your mobo just supports SATA RAID. But to answer the question: plug it in (however it gets in), it should run fine.

This is a thing other geeks can explain more fully, but there's the gist: RAID is for poeple who want a little more from their HDDs. their are several types of RAID: I can only remember 0,1 and JBOD off the top of my head, and I always confuse 0 and 1. One of thse sets up a mirrored Array of two HDDs (when you use RAID of any kind, it always involves more than one HDD). This mirrored array works so you only use one HDD, but whatever you install to it, installs to the other (a mirror, obviously, reflects, or makes two things). This is used in industry where an accidental disk wipe could be catastrophic. If one of the disks fails, you can still use the other one, because it is a mirror image of the other (sorry for the pun). The other is called a striped array. Striping is taking two HDDs and having them join resources. When you install something to a striped array, halves are installed to each HDD in the stripe, making installations and data retrival faster (because each member of the stripe is not as full as it would be if it had to hold whole files instead of strips of each). These are used when you want a faster HDD response. JBOD is used, so far as I remember, when you've got HDDs of two different capcities. 0 and 1 have weaknesses. Because the mirrored Array installs the same thing to 2 HDDs, it is slow. Because the Striped has unified two HDDs, it is fast but if you get a virus on one, the virus gets to both, and if one HDD fails, then your comp won't run because halves of all your files are missing.

And No, You do not need it. This is just one of those niche things that true geeks do so they can say they did. It's also used by computer enthusiasts who want more speed or better file protection.

 

If you are opting/staying with the Eide HD you will need to format the HD and reinstall OS. You cannot use/swap your HD to a new mobo just like that. So drag of all data you need to keep onto another HD, and then Format and install OS. A bit more info would help us here like.. is your existing HD partitioned in any way ??

 

This thread looks to be close enough for this question. What is the main difference between Parallel ATA Harddrives and Serial ATA Harddrives? The reason I ask is because I wanted to know if either one would work regardless of any system requirements or hardware/software compatability.

Using AIDA32 for my pertinent info here are my basics:
OS--- Windows XP Pro
CPU --- AMD Athlon XP 1800+
MoBo --- Shuttle AK31
RAM --- 512 MB (PC2100 Virtual Channel DDR SDRAM)
Video --- NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400 (64MB)
NTFS Partition for 4 drives

Current HD (2) --- IBM/Hitachi Deskstar 120GXP
Interface --- Ultra-ATA/100

Doing a google search I found this particular brand of HD matched with the Serial ATA Harddrives.

A secondary question would be which ATA type of harddrive is more user friendly, system friendly, hardware/software friendly, reliable, quiet, cost efficient, and is compatible with future/market/product changes? And, although I kind of understand this whole RAID deal, it makes no sense to me in terms of it's relationship with MoBos, CPUs, Video/Sound Cards, PCI, SCSII, specific harddrives etc....

Would it be beneficial to buy an external HD? If so, what kind?

Sry, for all these questions, but I'm tired of being clueless and afraid of computers, hardware, and software. It's hard for me to understand all the technical terms and what they mean and how they impact on me if I want to either buy a pre-made system or build one from scratch. Thanks for any and all responses to my questions.
Angryj

 

Calm down my friend. Answers are like women, they only come easy to special people. The rest of us gotta work at it.



1)The main difference (Drum roll please) is............Almost Everything! (SATA is much faster!)

We'll start with hardware. For a PATA *Parallel Advanced Technology Attachment* (also known as EIDE, or IDE), uses a wide, multi-pin interface (or port) to attach to the mobo(cable on the left). It comes in many speeds, but you really don't need to worry about that. SATA (Serial Advanced Technology Attachment) on the other hand, has a nice, slim port that takes up minimal space and looks a lot nicer(cable on the right).

http://www.ixbt.com/storage/serial-ata/sata_pata_cable.jpg

EIDE will boot up on any mobo at nearly any time, but for SATA you usually need to install SATA drivers (generally done during Windows install) to get it to be read.
That's really it. Once you get it installed, it performs exactly the same as a PATA HDD (well,maybe not. SATA is much faster )
To see if you are compatible with SATA, check your motherboard manula or call tech support of your pre-build company.

2) To answer that multi-faceted second question: SATA (except for the user friendly part. You don't have to install drivers for EIDE, but the rest is worth the 30 seconds of driver install easily )

3) Unless you know what RAID is, you don't need it. In fact, I know what RAID is and I don't need it (and most of the acronyms you listed have nothing to do with RAID at all). If you want to learn more, post a new thread, but it really doesn't matter.

4)the reason everything is stuffed into your tiny computer box is because it is safest in there (to the risk of being busted). As long as you don't have children or pets that could potentially break it, an external HDD works the same as an internal (well, give or take some minor items). However, make sure that whatever standard it uses (which should be USB 2.0 or FireWire/IEEE 1397), that your computer supports it (just look for that exact text, i.e. "supports FireWire" in the manual or tech spport for your prebuilt machine).

 

First of all, thank you Blacktop Roland for your excellent advice and info!
Ok, let me see if I got this right...
1)SATA is the way I should go in terms of both speed, space saving considerations (less bulky), and all the other little things I mentioned minus being user friendly. Correct?
2)If I choose to get a SATA HD, I need to know whether my mobo supports it, Correct?
3)As far as the external HD goes...I'm a bit confused about the need to be aware of either USB 2.0 or FireWire/IEEE 1397 and "supports FireWire" info. My system was built piece by piece (for some reason I learned about the myriad pitfalls of buying a prebuilt system via trial and error vs building one). I have 2 remaining USB ports--1 in the front and 1 in the back (I don't believe the one in front to be usable but then again I haven't even tried it out in the first place). I take it there is a difference between just USB and USB 2.0?

So it would seem that I am using Parallel ATA seeing as I don't have one of them there snappy looking Serial ATA cable. Now here's my thought process after all this info (and please correct me where I'm confused or simply just wrong). My current mobo supports Parallel ATA, but I would need to check (and where would I do this? say online) whether my mobo would in fact support Serial ATA. If my mobo is compatible with SATA and I wanted to get an external SATA HD, then I would have to know or find out whether my mobo or computer itself supports either USB 2.0 and/or FireWire/IEEE 1397? If my 'pooter' supports one or the other and again (where could I find this information online), then I should be able to connect my new SATA HD and all should work out. And if I went out and bought some adequate partition software I would be able to transfer all my valuable info from my current 2 PATA HDs to my new external SATA HD....Umm, if say I got a 200GB HD, how much space is going to be available after formatting that drive and perhaps partitioning it with NTFS/FAT32? Sry, for this last question....I'm already looking past the whole PATA vs SATA question and the compatability issues towards what happens after that initial question is resolved.

Thanks again for your excellent advice. It seems I need even more
Angryj

 

1)yes
2)yes (and installing the drivers is so easy, it;s negligible)

3) your external hard drive needs to be connected to your computer, right? that would mean a cable that runs from the back of your External Drive to a port on ytour computer. The two most popular methods right now (also known as "mediums" or "interfaces") are FireWire or USB 2.0.

Firewire:
http://mgnt.khm.de:8080/images/cgk1/firewire.jpg

You need a port like this to use a FireWire Device. If there isn't one on your motherboard (and those motherboards cost an arm and a leg), you need to buy a card with ports on it.

USB 2.0:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/images/itemdetails/desktop-cables/usb-port.jpg

If you want to connect via USB (Universal Serial Bus), you need a port like this. USB 2.0 is simply the newest version. Both are fast enough for External drives, FireWire is the fastest but obviously more expensive.

Are you good for SATA? The best place to find this info is from your motherboard manufacturer website, but you know what would be easier? look on the mobo itself for a port like this:http://prohardver.hu/html/lap/soc754_gen2/asus/sataz2.jpg Those red things are the SATA ports, but they are about as wide as a fingernail IRL.

Next: There is no such thing as an external SATA drive. When you say "SATA" drive, that's the type of cable you use to connect to it (SATA,firewire,USB,etc). To get an external SATA drive, you wouild either A)simply run the SATA cable outside your case, or B) buy an add-on card (which you'll need to do anyway if you don't have SATA support by your motherboard), and then plug your normal SATA drive outside of your case. you can't have like a Firewire SATA drive, you can only have 1 at a time.

Next, if you format your HDD (and screw that stuff, format with NTFS, trust me), well, my 60GB had like 59.8 left, so I imagine you would lose maybe 40 or 50 MB at the outside, leaving you with a healthy 199.95 or something.

Ask questions man, it helps me learn new stuff and then act like I knew it all along

 

I appreciate you taking the time to help me out Blacktop! Ok, I believe I've got it now. I have support for neither 2.0 or FireWire Now the question becomes--can I buy an add-on card for either one, you know, like a sound or video card?
I'm basically a n00b at all this stuff, but having had some experience building 2 'pooters' from the ground up (had a lot of help both times) and learning something about computers both times, I've come to understand that I need lots more practice. I guess my questions come mainly from a user viewpoint who intends to become a certified computer/business machine technician over the next few years. I can't help people figure out problems and their solutions just yet unless I have had the same ones and learned or been taught how to fix those things.
Right now I'm trying to decide whether I want to keep adding on to my existing system (hence these n00b like questions), or if I want to save up some $ and build another 'pooter' with all new and current hardware and software. And in case you're wondering where I got some of my questions from, the answer would be from this site: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/
The only real consideration I have is $. Would it be cost efficient to add on to my 'pooter' as it now is or would it make more sound fiscal sense to save up and get the stuff I want and need for a new system?
Thank you very much for your help

 

At last someone who knows this stuff. I have a 2 yr old (or so) sata compatible MB and a Maxtor 80 gb sata or ata HD. When I installed it I had no clue what sata was except that I had it. Now I want to switch over. Is it as simple as attaching the sata cables to the right locations, telling the bios you have sata and installing the sata drivers? Would I have to reformat my exitsting drive and start over or can I just rewire and install drivers and not lose my info. Thanks for the great info. Wish I had a clue 2 yrs ago I would have installed sata from the beginning.

 

That sounds familiar and I'm not so sure that wasn't the reason I just went the ata way. I think I read back then that you might not notice the difference in speed.

 

Anybody with a knowledge of sata have an opinion? Not sure I want to change everything around if I'm not going to notice that big of a difference. Any opinions or knowledge on this would be great.

 

Lemme answer AngryJ first, he was here first (BTW, sorry it takes so long to post a reply, I work long hours)

J, in fact, you can do it exactly the same way. There are USB 2.0 and Firewire cards available- both are PCI cards, so it's just like installing a sound card.

as to the "evolve or rebuild" question, that depends on A) what you use it for, and B) what you're system is now. If all you want to do is use it for word rocessing, internet, and running an external hard drive, you don't need to touch anything. What do you got right now, and what do you want to do with it?

 

you mean you're HDD can be EITHER ATA or SATA?

 

Many thanks again Blacktop for being here to answer my pedantic questions I was hoping I could do just that (getting a card). As for what I've got now :http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showpost.php?p=599183&postcount=4
I'm really wanting to be 21st+ century game compatible, something that will be able to easily handle Half-Life 2, Far Cry, Painkiller and give me all the goodies that those games (and others yet to come out sometime in the next couple of years) have to offer; I also really want to have a better than adequate system for burning both CDs and DVDs. I'd prefer a system that isn't going to be obsolete in 1-2 years and will allow me the options for future growth without having to go through a meat cleaver in terms of upgrading...
I thought I'd start out with a high end case with lots of space, more than capable of handling future upgrades, and a removeable mobo tray like a Lian-Li or something along those lines; a mobo with lots of future upgrade compatability; and of course a solid AMD processor. [A sound card, video card, perhaps an LCD monitor, and solid HDs etc....all these are up for discussion and consideration].
The system I have now, I want to use as a reference for my computer tech future. I'm also going to be going to school to learn about computer/business/office equipment repair this Fall so everything I can learn before then will certainly help give me a boost up before I start classes. Sry, for all this extra gobbledegoop. Thanks for all your wonderful advice and answers!
Angryj

 

Lol, J just kicked down the doors. When you've got questions other than the one that is the title of this thread, open another thread, I'm such a whore I read em all. Right now we're just talking about SATA and stuff, and I believe you've learned what you wanted out of this thread. Gaming really is based on CPU speed, RAM speed and amount, and Video card. To be very honest, you won't notice much of a difference between a 7200RPM ATA100 and a 7200RPM SATA drive. The only reason I use SATA is because the smaller cable allows for better airflow in my case.

 

Sry about that Blacktop....yepper, I sure got the scoop on the initial question and so you are due kudos for your great help I was just answering your follow-up questions (I hate starting new threads )....I think I should also go thru the threads to find answers to questions that may have already been asked and answered

 

I don't know if this fits this thread, but I heard that the SATA cables suck and are prone to failing (that is of course if I understand the SATA cable to be the round one) that connects the Hard Drive to the MOBO as opposed to the more familiar ribbon cable. SATA has better airflow and takes up less space, but they aren't as reliable (putting it another way).

True?

Rick Calic

 

Heh, took me a while to answer that. SATA cables work fine as long as you don't bend them into 90-degree angle, but honestly, why would you do that?

 

not sure if this issue has already been dealt with but i got a ASUS k8 mobo with 2 sata support. tryin to work the raid with XP but issue is: planning to create a raid mirror with 2 seagate 120GB drives. shld i do it after loading the OS (XP PRO) or in the raid bios? the raid is from sis. also get option to create the raid in the OS thru a sis raid software. is that the best option?

 

In answer to sidvarman .. if my memory serves me well. hook your 2 sata HD's up and unhook any EIDE drives, boot up and I think you press F4 and this will take you to the SATA setup window, choose how you wish to setup Mirror or Stripe and choose recommended 16 KB cluster, when done reboot with OS disc in ROM choosing cd first boot in bios, have your floppy disc that came with mobo with your SATA drivers on there. When cd boots be double quick and press F6 when asked , drivers for OS will load then it will stop and ask you to push in floppy to install the sata driver. When copied you then go on to load OS , take care here as when it goes to install DO NOT FORMAT as this will lose the cluster size ( I take it you have already formatted) then its the usual install. When finished go into BIOS and choose 'First Boot Priority' as , 'Add On Card'. this is your sata boot and all should be well. If you want to add an EIDE or 2 jumper settings Master Slave apply as normal. Little bit rusty on this but this is the main gist of it.

 

Just a side note, you want to make sure that you have the SATA RAID drivers on the floppy.

Though, they could be the same in this situation.

 

PATA: Old and busted.
SATA: New hotness.

At the moment, PATA is a dying standard. It's being phased out in most new systems. It's not uncommon to see a mobo with 4-8 SATA ports and only 1 PATA channel. It's still a bit more pricey, however.

Major benefit: You don't have screw around with those stupid molex power connectors anymore!