Several Questions (sorry)

Hello,

I apologize in advance for the extreme length of this post. I have a fairly old (5-6yrs old) computer that is running win98se. Specs according to system info are Authentic AMD Athlon Processor 256mb 900mhz (file system and virtual memory = 32-bit, not sure if you need that). This computer has had so many problems over the past few years, but I will spare you and only list the most recent. This started about 3 weeks ago. Internet explorer would not work, everytime I tried to open it, it gave me an error message saying it needed to close and in safe mode, though I wouldn't get the error message, it still would say the page couldn't be displayed. None of my IM programs would work, they would give me illegal operation errors. My anti-virus software apparently had no components installed (I tried to uninstall/reinstall and thats the error I received), Add/Remove programs was blank, nothing was listed. I downloaded some antivirus/spyware programs from my new comp and installed them onto the old comp as advised in the READ THIS FIRST sticky, and AVG found C:\WINDOWS\NDNuninstall6_98.exe and C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\PreUninstallHL.exe. It quarantined them but I guess the damage was done because I still have the same problems. A friend said that the viruses had probably deleted registry files and a reformat would be needed. I had already planned on doing a clean install/reformat or whatever it's called as the old comp has been used for gaming, surfing the web, d/l'ing music etc etc, and is just so full of years of junk it's ridiculous. I really haven't maintained the computer as well as I should have and I suppose i'm reaping the rewards of that.
So, I have a couple of questions. First, for the last probably year at least, disk defrag and scandisk will not work. They freeze while they are running (I have to end task, or usually, the whole comp just freezes), and defrag never really seems to actually start although the status screen comes up. Second, the comp frequently freezes completely. Either I get the fatal error blue screen, or a bunch of small green lines running along the top of the screen and the computer is completely frozen. I often have problems at start up where at the part where you can hit f8 to go into safe mode, the computer beeps and says (i think) boot drive not found (twice) and then it loads a different screen saying (blank) not found please insert disk/floppy into drive a/c and press any key when ready. It is something along those lines (I apologize if that is far too vague to be helpful, I just can't remember exactly) and I have to keep restarting the machine until a. it finally boots up, or b. I get too frustrated to continue and leave it alone until it decides to work which has more than once, taken several days. I have found that with the freezing where I have to flip the power switch at the back because I can't do anything else to reboot, as well as with the startup problems, I have to pull out the power cord to the comp and plug it back in before the computer will even boot up (we have had the power cord replaced twice and it hasn't helped) The computer is also VERY loud when it is 'thinking' and just takes forever to do simple things. Someone has previously suggested to me that some of these problems, namely the freezing up, could be caused by a faulty power supply in the machine (something along those lines) or that there is possibly a scratch on the hard disk itself. I'm not sure if any of that means much.
It is VERY dusty inside and needs a thorough cleaning as well as the reformatting. I plan to do this all myself I'm sure that's probably a scary thing to hear. I listed those issues partly so I could ask if there is anything in particular I should look for (physically on the hardware) when cleaning out the inside of the computer that might be cause to these problems? Secondly, although a dumb question, when I reformat will that completely wipe EVERYTHING off the computer including any viruses (those quarantined) spyware, programs etc.? Third, is there a sticky or guide of any sort anywhere to walk me through taking apart the old comp and cleaning its insides properly (I'd prefer not to finish it off in an attemp to fix it)?. As well as a guide for reformatting the old computer (e.g. - what disks etc. should I make sure I have before attempting a reformat)? I know it would be smarter to take it in somewhere and have it professionally serviced, but it is my dads computer and he refuses to spend any more money on it, at least anytime soon. I already bought Dust Off from Staples for cleaning.
Thanks in advance.

P.S.- I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post it in as I have no idea if it is more a hardware problem or perhaps something software related. I just figured that because these problems have persisted even after the computer has been serviced, that it is more likely hardware as I would assume the service people would have found a software related issue after 'fixing' it. I apologize if I should have posted elsewhere.

 

Well, if you're determined to try this yourself, some good information can be found here:

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=791

More here:

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1444

In fact, a LOT of good information can be found here:

http://www.pcstats.com/beginners.cfm

Start reading, and start learning; you have a LONG way to go. Once you've got an idea of the scope of the tasks awaiting you, post any new questions you have here, and good luck.

 

Okay I'm going to try to get to cleaning the old computer this evening. I'll let you know what I find... I also read over those articles you linked, thanks for those. I do have another question before I start regarding reformatting. I want to completely clean the computer as far as programs and everything, put it back (as close as possible) to what it was when we first brought it home (the only thing installed is the OS). Is that reformating or is that called a clean install or are they the exact same thing? When I reformat will that completely wipe EVERYTHING off the computer including any viruses (those quarantined) spyware, files, programs, etc.? Also, after I make a boot disk, what do I do next to begin reformating or the clean install (whatever the correct term is)? I know these are probably dumb questions but I am pretty much a noob . Thanks again.

 

I'm wondering if you have more than one problem.

A bad power supply is a possible cause, but it's not high on my "suspect" list. But keep in mind that what you've occasionally had to do to get your system started is a bit hard on the PSU. It could have gone flaky as a result of the shock loads.

If there's a lot of dust built up in the CPU cooler fins, that can cause the CPU to overheat. That can cause flaky operation, and can damage the CPU. Perhaps by now you've already dealt with that. If not -- don't dismount the CPU cooler to get the dust out of the fins. If you do, you'll have to clean up the interface between the CPU and the cooler, and replace the interface material. That's a fiddly job that is easily done wrong. Avoid it if you can.

The inability to bring up a list of installed programs makes me wonder if your Registry has been corrupted. You may need to re-install Windows to fix that one, though some Registry checkers do a pretty good job of finding and fixing problems.

The non-operative applications also suggest possible file corruption. But this looks like a lot of file corruption. It happens, but normally it's rare -- unless your hard drive is dying. So I'd give this one your highest priority for investigation.

Run SCANDISK from DOS mode, and include a surface check. Better yet, start your system with the Win98 Startup Disk, and run SCANDISK from that. If you get any bad sectors, fix them and run another surface check. If more bad sectors turn up, back up your data (what you can of it) and replace the drive as soon as possible.

Another option: go to the website maintained by the drive's manufacturer. Most hard drive manufacturers provide a free diagnostics program that you can download and run on your system. Most of those include an option to run a surface check.

In any event, run a surface check before you re-format and re-install. If the hard drive has gone sour, you'll only have to do it again with a replacement drive.

The surface check will take a while to run if the drive is large -- possibly several hours. If you're running the check in DOS mode (and that's the best way) you will not be able to use the computer for anything else while the check is running, so plan your life accordingly.

That'll give you something to work on. Let us know how you make out.

 

Okay, I haven't quite gotten around to cleaning out the old computer just yet... but tomorrow is cleared just for that, for sure. I ran the scandisk as suggested from both the start-up disk and in DOS mode. The computer froze about 30-40 percent of the way through the scan the first try (had not found any errors/bad sectors before it froze) but in DOS mode it completed the scan without any problems, and it did not find any errors/bad sectors at all. The DOS mode scan took almost 8 hours to complete... good grief. I couldn't do any of the online scans because the computer cannot connect to the internet at all since the problems started. I'll let you know what I find tomorrow after I clean it out. Thanks again for the help and info thus far

 

Well, now you know why it's nice to have a virus scanner that will let you build a set of "rescue disks" (Norton AV's term) that make it possible to run a scan without booting from your hard drive or any need to access the Internet.

But a lot of people don't bother building the disk set. Trend Micro's rescue disk set currently uses nearly 20 floppy disks, and if there's a way to build a CD-ROM that will do the same job, Trend Micro doesn't know of it. (I asked them.)

 

well my old pc was like yours some what

i thank my old system was dieing on me !!

do reformat when get done cleaning it

your psu may be too old

and same for your Motherboard

i wood update the too of them and cpu as well

some what have may be cos cpu and Motherboard cos so old but i hope

reformat works had do same befor i got my new gateway

 

Sorry for the really long delay in getting back to you on this. I have been out of the country for the last few weeks... Okay, well I opened up the computer and cleaned it all out inside. It was really dusty inside but wasn't quite as bad as I was expecting. I smelled the back of the power supply as suggested and it didn't stink, just smelled dusty. There wasn't any "brown crud" around the PS fans that I could see at all. From what I could gather it is a 300 W output does that sound right? I also looked at each and every capacitor within the computer. Not one of them had any humped caps or leakages. I then formated which went smoothly without any problems and reinstalled windows98se. Now, the next phase Okay, once I reinstalled windows and it took me to the desktop, I could only display 2 or 16 colors. I found a cd that says 'Driver CD Mainboard/Gamecard/PCI Sound' so I stuck it in the drive and it booted up. It gives me the option to install GeForce 2 MX Setup, TwinView Display Setup (CMXDV Model), PCI Version GeForce 2 MX Setup, Ecolor3Deep, DirectX 8, Unreal Game Patch (MX-200). My first question is which of those should I be installing and in what order? Secondly, in Device Manager under 'Other Devices' there are exclamation marks beside PCI Communication Device, PCI Ethernet Controller, and PCI Multimedia Audio Device. If I try to click on 'Reinstall Drivers' for any of those it just says it can't find them after searching for them. Computer is reformatted I just don't know what to do now... Again, sorry for the delay reporting back.

 

I don't know if this will help or not, but I should mention the only CD's I can find as far as drivers or installation type CD's are a Windows 98 CD, a Win98SE CD, the Driver CD I mentioned earlier, a Gravis Experience Ver. 4.3a CD (no clue what that is) and a High Speed Internet Setup CD from our ISP. When I was cleaning out the computer the ID sticker on the HD read Maxtor N256 with a model number. Probably even less useful are the User Manuals I could find... One was for GeForce 2 MX and one was for the 'Socket A Processor Mainboard GA-7ZX Series VIA KTI33+686B Chipset' That's probably totally useless info but wasn't sure if it would help/save time as far as locating drivers or whatever if I'm missing a CD. Thanks.

 

The Gravis Experience Ver. 4.3a CD may be a demo disk for one of the Advanced Gravis sound cards. The one they prepared for the Classic sound card was very good.

The manuals would be good to have if you have the GeForce 2 MX video adapter card and the GA-7ZX mainboard with the VIA KTI33+686B chipset installed in your machine.

Your Device Manager will confirm the make and model of your video adapter card. When you start the system, you'll usually get a splash screen that identifies the mainboard. That splash screen usually stays on the monitor while the POST is running.

If those manuals don't relate to the hardware you have, give them to someone who can use them. Using the manual for hardware other than what you have is a recipe for trouble.

As for the driver disk: it sounds like a driver disk for the GeForce 2 MX video adapter card. If that's not what you have, don't use the driver disk. If that's what you do have installed, use it for the drivers and install whatever software is on that disk that you'll use. Don't load up your system with software you're not using.

Better yet, pay a visit to NVIDIA's driver download page at <http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp> and download the latest drivers you can find for the GeForce 2 MX video adapter card -- if that's the video card you have. The drivers that ship with video cards are often updated within 6 months of the shipping date -- with the result that the supplied drivers are sometimes out of date before you even get the card home to install it.

 

What about the Ethernet controller? I can't connect to the internet on that computer right now. How do I go about getting reconnected? Is there a program I could burn to CD from this computer and run on the reformatted computer that would tell me exactly what hardware I have/what drivers I would need? I've never done this before so it's a little intimidating. Thanks again.

 

I'll assume that you're using the Gigabyte GA-7ZX mainboard in your system. I gather that motherboard does not have an on-board network connection. In other words, you have a network interface card (NIC) in one of your PCI expansion slots. It probably isn't made by Gigabyte.

You'll need to determine the make and model of that NIC. Your Device Manager will probably identify the manufacturer of the card. There should be a model number on the card itself, but you may have to remove the card from the machine to read it. Or download (click here) and run Everest Home Edition.

Once you have the make and model, pay a visit to the maker's website and download the appropriate drivers for the card.

Or look around whatever you have for the computer, but look for a 3 1/2" floppy disk instead of a CD-ROM. Some manufacturers continue to use floppy disks for the drivers because they fit in the NIC's shipping container better.

Of course, all of the above assumes that Windows 98 didn't have the drivers you need for that particular NIC. Maybe the problem is elsewhere. You've mentioned that your Device Manager has flagged the card. What information do you get when you select the Ethernet controller in your Device Manager, and click on the Properties button. What does it say in the Device Status area?

Another step: open your Run command dialogue and enter "winipcfg" (without the quotes) in the dialogue box. Click on OK. You'll get a dialogue box that shows your configuration info for your PPP adapter. Click on the down arrow in the dialogue box and select your Ethernet controller. Click on "Release"; wait for the confirmation, then click on "Renew". If you get an "OK", try your Internet connection again.

If you don't get an "OK", let us know what you did get. Let us also know the contents of the information boxes shown. Let's also have some information about how you connect to the Internet, like cable or DSL? Through a router, or direct to the cable adapter? Or through another machine with a shared connection?

We may need more or other information. But let's start there.

BTW -- have you tried the tech support offered by your ISP? If Win98 has installed drivers for that NIC, it's not unreasonable to ask your ISP for a little help with a configuration problem.

 

Okay, I installed Everest Home Edition and this what it gave me:

Computer
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 98 SE

Motherboard
CPU Type AMD Athlon, 900 Mhz (9x100)
Motherboard Name Gigabyte GA-7ZX (-B)
Motherboard Chipset VIA VT8363(A) Apollo KT133(A)
System Memory 256MB (PCI133 SDRAM)
BIOS Type AMI (01/04/01)

Display
Video Adapter NVIDIA GeForce2 MX-100/200 PCI
Video Adapter nVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100/200

Multimedia
Audio Adapter Creative SB PCI128 (Ensonique ES5880) Sound Card

Network
Network Adapter PPP Adapter

Windows Devices
Other Devices:
PCI Ethernet Controller
PCI Device Realtek RTL8139 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter (A/B/C)

- I couldn't find a 3 1/2 inch floppy of any relevance
- When I click on Properties in the Device Manager Tab for the Ethernet Controller it says that 'The drivers for this device are not installed (Code 28)' and then gives me a button to click on that says Reinstall Drivers but when I click on it it just says it can't locate any drivers for the device.
- I entered the "winipcfg" run command, clicked OK and the configuration info popped up for 'PPP adapter' but when I clicked on the down arrow there were no other options to click on, only PPP Adapter. It did give me release all and renew all buttons but nothing happened when I clicked on them. In 'more info' the only info given under Host Info is: Host Name and Node Type = Broadcast and under Ethernet Adapter Info: Adapter Address = 44-45-53-54-00-00 IP Address 0.0.0.0 Subnet Mask 0.0.0.0 and DHLP 255.255.255.255 everything else is blank. Now I know the 0.0.0.0 thing will prevent me from accessing the internet, but how do I reset that or is that because the drivers aren't installed yet?
- I connect to the internet through high speed cable internet and since we have bought these two new computers we all connect through a router which is connected to the modem provided by our ISP.

Thank you for your help and patience thus far

 

Googling the exact error message as a phrase (enclose it in quotes when you enter it in Google) often gets useful results. In this case, you'll get a page on Microsoft's site that confirms that Error Code 28 means that the drivers for your network card are not installed. You'll find that page at <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/125174/>.

If that family of network cards came out after your version of Windows shipped, the Windows distribution disk will not contain the drivers for that card. You'll need to get them from somewhere else.

Everest has given you the information you need to fix that problem in the line that said,

because now you know the make and model of the NIC. Googling that information in a phrase like "Realtek RTL8139" is usually a good way to get to information concerning the device, and the drivers. Ideally, you would get the drivers from the manufacturer. However, Realtek's website seems to have a configuration problem of some kind, so the Google search results don't take you anywhere useful on Realtek's site.

Starting at Realtek's home page works. Go to <http://www.realtek.com.tw/>. You'll see a quick link on that page for your model of network card. Click on it to get to the page you need. Select the download that's appropriate for your particular version of Windows, and GO for it.

The Google search results show that the drivers are available from other sources, including:
<http://www.bebits.com/app/2116>
<http://www.softwarepatch.com/utilities/realteknic.html>
<http://www.opendrivers.com/driver/22844/realtek-rtl8139-810x-8169-8110-driver-whql-6.02-windows-free-download.html>
These alternatives are useful, especially when the manufacturer has gone out of business. But bear in mind that sites like those do not usually acquire the downloads from the manufacturer. Often, they are uploaded by other users of the product who are prepared to share those files with those who need them. 99.9% of the time they are fine, but there is always the possibility that they've been altered. And you may not get the same help with installation that one often gets from the manufacturer.

The results you got from WINIPCFG result from the fact that the drivers for the NIC are not installed. When the drivers are installed and configured, WINIPCFG should return the IP address supplied by the router (usually something like 192.168.0.xxx) if the router is configured as a DHCP server.

 

Okay, I can now access the internet. I had tried to install the drivers from the Realtek website before i posted but for some reason i didn't download the auto-install driver program and so i couldn't figure out how to install it... I managed to get the sound working, that took forever to find the drivers for . Now the only question mark left in device manager is for the PCI Communication Device. No clue what that is. I'm sorry to keep asking what are probably dumb questions but I don't really know what all i'm doing... The computer SEEMS to be working pretty well now, except how do i check to make sure all my drivers for my motherboard and everything are fully updated? I tried checking for updates for my video card but i guess everything is so old on this comp it makes it way more difficult. The only option for updating i could find on nvidia's website was for Forceware, is that what i need?... I went to Gigabyte's website but there are so many different drivers i can hardly tell the difference between some of them and i don't want to go installing the wrong thing. I didn't want to break up my posts if it wasn't necessary but should I move this now to the drivers forum and ask these questions there or should i continue here? Thanks again for all your help, it is GREATLY appreciated

 

We'll make a geek out of you yet, littlebullet. Well done.

I'm not sure what the "PCI Communication Device" is. What do you get when you right-click on that item in your Device Manager, then click on Properties?

The only way to be sure that you have the most recent drivers for your attached peripherals is to pay a visit to each manufacturer's website, just as you have done for the ones you needed. However, if your system is working well, that's something you can do at your leisure, or not at all. There are some who are quite content to do with the "if it isn't bust, why fix it?" school of thought.

 

Okay, well i just pressed something random while i was typing and managed to erase everything i had just typed... and i had typed A LOT so that was fun... So here i go again... The old computer is acting up again, well not so much the old comp but IE (yes i know, big surprise) I need to be able to install MSN messenger on the old comp because my sister boots me off my computer so she can IM while she works on the computer. MSN messenger requires IE ver. 6 SP1 or higher in order to install. I tried to install that but the 'IE has encountered a problem and needs to close' error started popping up everytime I try to use it so i uninstalled it. I have tried using the repair option but it doesn't help and i have to 'Restore previous configuration'. I installed Mozilla Firefox for browsing and that seems to work fine but i have to have IE 6 SP1 or higher installed to install MSN messenger. Now i know i could just install that version of IE and use Mozilla for browsing but it is annoying that it won't work and i'd like to resolve the problem. Also, i know that IE 7.0 is out but is that just a test version or is it a full official release? Secondly, i tried to find the site where i can download all the patches and updates etc. for Windows98se but i couldn't find it, it's probably really obvious and easy to find, but i can't find it . I installed the 'unofficial service pack for Win98se' that was linked somewhere on MG but i wasn't sure if that included all the critical updates that were ever released. I don't care about foreign language support and such i just wanted to make sure the OS is patched properly. Thirdly, i don't know if this is a big deal or not, but yesterday when i started up the old comp it beeped weird at the beginning (2 beeps pause and then 1 beep) and then said that my 'CMOS settings are incorrect' i went into the um.. bios settings or whatever they are and the date was set to January 8 or something random and the year 2001. The time was also way off. I reset it correctly and it was fine when i started up today. I had also reset the time the day before yesterday because a message came up saying my time/date settings were incorrect. But when i checked them they were fine. Later that day, however, my dad was using the comp and had to reset the time as it was off. Don't know what would have caused that... Thanks again for the help. Oh yes, when i go into properties for PCI Communication Device, there is no information provided. Under devices it says other devices and manufacturer it says none specificied

 

Unfortunately, I don't know beans about MSN Messenger. I'll leave that bit for someone who does.

Try <http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp>. You may need to use IE instead of Firefox.

Looks like the backup battery for your CMOS chip on the motherboard is dying. It's probably a large sliver button cell -- many of them are CR2032's. Easily replaced for under $10.

When it dies, the CMOS chip forgets its settings. Date and time are the first to go, because they're constantly changing. Eventually, any non-default BIOS settings will also disappear, and you'll be booting with the default BIOS settings.

The PCI Communications Device could be a modem card in a PCI slot. Is there one? If there is, go back to the Device Manager and see what it says about installed drivers or conflicts under Properties. If no drivers are installed, you may need to pull the card to look for identifying information. If so, get the FCC ID number if you can't find a make and model number.

 

You are not going to believe this. After all that work and annoyance, the old computer has been retired Now i can't say that i'm even a little bit sad at this, but after all your help with all my dumb questions, and all the hours i wasted trying to fix the stupid thing... My sister decided she wanted a laptop and came across a deal that my parent's decided was worth it and so my dad just got a new laptop too. I just got everything working on the old computer too, minus the backup battery. So now, they don't know anything about computers, at all, so i've been given the task of setting up the new laptops because the computer store wanted $180 to "optimize" them (including installing a trial version of norton, which i passed on)... I'll move this to a new a thread because here's a big surprise, i don't know what i'm doing Thanks again for all your help and patience it has been very much appreciated!

 

Oh, but I do believe it. It happens -- surprisingly frequently.

Over the last two months, I've spend considerable time trying to figure out what to do with two of a friend's computers. (One was slow and sick, the other was fast and dead.) The slow and sick one was quite resurrectable -- especially given the option of improving it with parts from the other. But it's about to be retired.

The other one turned out to be too expensive to put back into service -- the power supply went out and took the motherboard and memory with it. The CPU might be gone too, but I didn't have any way to test it.

That's life....