*sigh* This Canadian boy is going to miss hockey.

It looks as though the NHL is headed for a lockout tonight at midnight. Hockey is my favourite sport and I'm going to miss it when it's gone. Money ruins everything.

Is anyone else going to feel as sad about this as I do.

 

No.....but I felt the same way when baseball had it's go around. It is a sad day when a dollar is more important than sportsmanship. It sets a wonderful example for our kids, doesn't it? Try to teach them fair play and sportsmanship and they see this......just sad.

 

Yeah, I will miss it. A friend of mine played some minor leauge hockey and he say's that this will help the sport. We will see.

Steve

 

frig them all. If ANYONE can't live on 100,000k + then they have serious issues.

 

I find it sad and a bit angering. I'm not really on either side, seeing as they're speaking in millions, but I think the players union may have become too strong for it's own good. I'm looking forward to dedicating any time I can to watching and supporting the up and coming lacrosse players. These guys still play for passion. Most of them still have other jobs to support themselves and their families. Maybe the hockey players should spend some time watching these guys play.

 

bah, Unions should have NO power in salary negotiation.

 

Amen...Oh lordy....Amen.

 

I hope the NHL dissolves and a new league is formed where players make no more than a few hundred thousand.

Screw those greedy rich players!!!

 

Reality ( for me at least) is that I used to travel to Seattle once or twice a month to catch a Mariner's game. Nowadays I can't afford a ticket in the nosebleed seats because of the salary increases, which of course sent entry tickets soaring. It is very difficult to be a fan anymore, and it is very expensive.

 

I'll miss hockey, but we'll catch some Wolves games this year, and it looks like I might get to join another league once I get back from our vacation and do some of my own playing.

 

Yeah, it's unfortunate but at least there's still CCHA collegiate hockey.

 

Cobra our beloved Hockey town is gonna be dead,

No more going to Cheli's Chili (owned by chris chelios) to watch the game

 

Yeah, damn the construction on Mich Ave too....it's a doozy. LOL

 

Never mind the fact that negotiating salaries is one of the primary functions of a union.

 

We got into this once before about Unions. They've destroyed the backbone of the manufacturing industry with their outrageous demands. Lest I remind you that Unions were NOT created for that reason. They should stick to making sure the worker is safe and otherwise not abused and has a pleasant work environment.

It used to be that Unions made sure that the industries didn't take advantage of the workers. Now it's the industries that need to be protected from the workers taking advantage of them. Look around you. Take a look at detroit. Take a look at your steel mills. Where there was once thriving business, there is empty space because indrustry couldn't keep up with shoddy work and overpaid union members who didn't want to put a days work in.
Wake up and smell the roses.

And another thing. The facility I work at is dumped on with employees who are unfit to work becuase the union protects them. They are incompetent and have been proven so time and time again. But the union keeps threatening lawsuits and it's just too expensive an ordeal. In essence, it's cheaper to keep them on staff and suffer with extreme inefficiencies, and if you ask me, a hostile work environment.

 

We're never going to agree on unions, of course. I just found it interesting that you think they shouldn't be allowed to negotiate contracts, which is one of the primary reasons for having a union.

 

Today it is the primary reason, but that's not how it was when it first began. The only reason that's primary is because the gov't has laws and organizations in place for workplace health. And just so you don't think this: I do believe in COL increases for everyone, just not outrageous demands in salary for un merited work.

I too find it interesting that today one the Unions primary function is salary demands. Pretty interesting when you consider high labor costs causing businesses to move out of the country. Coincidence? 1:1 if you ask me.

 

They get small raises for everyone, including those who don't deserve it, leaving little money for those who actually deserve a real raise. They also go out of their way to make sure employers can't fire incompetant employees, not for the employee's sake, but to make sure they get their union dues.

And the unions are protected by the politicians who get both healthy contributions and promise of votes.

The whole system is corrupt.

 

bleh I havnt been down there since last hockey season, some really cool stuff in there, you been there?

What town you from anyway? Im in brownstown.

 

I, of course, am probably the last one you need to give a labour history lecture to.

Yes, there are now laws in place...due to the work of unions in the past. And not all business is moving out solely due to the cost of labor. Some are moving because raw materials are cheaper in other countries (Life Savers can buy sugar in Canada so much cheaper that they told the union they could offer to work for free with no benefits and they would still be saving money by leaving). Most are moving because along with cheap slave labour, they also are not controlled by environmental, workplace health and safety, and human rights laws the unions have won for those in the US. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

The funny thing is...I'm currently on the negotiating team for two major contracts we've got expired right now...and we've not even talked about salary or benefits. We've been negotiating for four months about language. You know...conditions, when we work, who works, etc. There's a proposed 4.5% per year increase on the table that hasn't yet been discussed (4.5% to be divided between pay and benefits), because we're bogged down on language. The company wants to only let us work if they feel like it, rather than having us work because we're the ones trained to do the job. The company has agreed to 4.5% increases in the past, though, so we have no reason to think they won't this time around, either. In our contracts, the money is the easiest thing to agree upon.

 

It IS as simple as I make it out to be. You just proved it in your post. These companies are bogged down by red tape and piss poor labor. If unions didn't require such demands on salary maybe these companies wouldn't be so quick to jump ship. But the high cost of labor is a big incentive to move out. A bonus to them is that they can acutally fire someone without complicated union proceedings.

Money is a touchy subject with you union people and I'm not surprised that you get what you want most of the time. You've got businesses by the crotch and if you ask me, it's extortion.

My wifes father had to give up HIS benefits along with other managment that hadn't improved in over a decade because UNIONS wanted more money. I can tell you for a FACT that unions are the reason why ALCOA is moving operations out of country. Wreynolds was so far in the hole because of it too that the merger of the two was a defense move to stay alive for both of them. Her father has to now manage the security for BOTH plants up north and FINALLY got a raise for it after waiting nearly a year for them to give it to him because of union salary increases. It's injustice, and every single damned place I've worked at was unionized and the same crap was present. So far, union corruption is 3 for 3 in my book.

You do realize that 4.5% is above the national average don't you? Why not settle on the average and get the extra % increase or any additional increases (raises) based on merit? I believe the COLA based on 2003 stats is 2.1% for 2004.

I don't expect union people (who want to be part of the union) to understand because they don't have the backbone to stand up for themselves and ask for a raise because they've earned it. No, they expect it and that's just unethical.

bah.. forget it, it's like talking to wall.

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/assets/Ferrous.jpg

 

Funny, that's just what I was thinking.

 

uh huh. .Thanks for ruining our country. Now all we have left is the highly volatile service industry as our economic backbone. Nice job.. well done..

 

Geez...stow the hostility, will you? I am not personally responsible for anything anyone other than myself has done, particularly not things that were done decades before my birth.

I'm done with this now, I truly don't need to deal with the attitude from someone I don't know and will never meet on a subject which you obviously are also so set in your ways as to not be able to listen to anyone else.

 

I listen to Union biased sides all the time and holes in their logic are gaping.

I hardly find my STATEMENT about the obvious to be hostile. Abrupt, yes, but not hostiile.

 

My Gosh, I've been blaming the gun-toting conservatives and surrender-monkey liberals for destroying our country, when it's really my fault. Perhaps I should drag my lazy, corrupt, incompetent ass out and buy a backbone with the money I've extorted from my poor victimized employer and stop this while there is still hope. I'm ashamed of all the things unions have done to this country like forcing people to have a 40 hour work week with paid O.T, vacations, health insurance, workplace safety rules, decent wages, and the evil FMLA act. If there were no unions, then we could all have workers' paradises like Wal-Mart.

 

So the commissioner thinks this strike could kill the season. Anyone know the last time a Stanley Cup was cancelled? I heard this bit of trivia on the radio.

 

Typical union person answer.

There are laws in place now. There is no need for unions any more. I am not union. I get a raise every year based on COLA and merit. I have vacations just like everyone else. I can use FMLA too. I get paid on the mark now for what my title is. Guess what! I don't work for Wal-Mart.

Are you lazy? Are you corrupt? Are you icompetent? Do you have a backbone? I'm asking because I didn't realize you were the embodiment of Unions.

EVERY unionized facility that I've worked at abused overtime. They'd work some in the morning and afternoon and finish their remaining work under OT and get paid for it. Problem is, they could have gotten their alotted work done in the 8 hour time frame that most of us work under and actually produced more work during OT and got paid for it. Both parties win out in this case. However,that hasn't been my experience.

Yeah, I'm ashamed of unions too; for when all the manufacturing leaves, there won't be any need for you at all because you won't have a job for the unions to protect.

Some states have made the move in the right direction with Right To Work. Growing pains as usual, but it's the best step yet. Now, an individual can say FU to unions and their corruption and stand his/her own two feet.

 

Those laws are in place because some union people fought for them, and in many cases, got the sh** beat out of them in the process and you say "I've got mine, so f*** off". As long as foreign worker are paid subsistence incomes and have no protection from employer abuses, our jobs will continue to hemorrage overseas, until we are forced to a similiar level. Do you believe your job is any safer because you are not unionized, that your employers are less likely to sell you out than mine are? Why don't you save this for some kid who is declared an assistant mgr., without authority, at McDonald's to make him ineligible for overtime, because no one is looking out for him. The new Labor Dept rules allow that now. I, along with my union brothers and sisters, are giving our time and money to help others, both here and abroad, enjoy the same standard of living that you and I enjoy. What are you giving them besides a big "F U"?

 

And now that they are in place, we don't need unions any more. The frame work is there now ( so, ok.. this is where you're looking for me to say thank you, fine.. thank you..now bye bye). It's like building a structure. Why in hell would you keep the scaffolding there after it's in place? Do you want me to pin a medal on the chest of the "union"?

The jobs "hemorrage" overseas more EASILY BECAUSE of unions over demand for salary increases. If the demands weren't so agressive, businesses may not be as quick to jump ship. (deja vu').

Do I believe my job is safer? I don't recall mentioning anythig along that line but if I must, my point is that I don't need a Union to back me up; to protect me if you will. I am my own person and the law is already on my side. If I screw up, I'm responsible enough to accept the consequences. Am I saying that the individual isn't? No, that's not what I'm saying. So I reiterate that I do not feel the need personally for any union support. This is where RIGHT TO WORK comes into play.

I find it interesting that you never once acknowleged the FACT that unions often demand wages far higher than the job is scheduled for. That businesses haven't been taken advantage of with lack of production and high labor wages. I've witnessed it first hand.

The value of a job changes over time. When programming was hot, people made buku bucks. Now programmers are a dime a dozen and the job isn't worth as much. Unions fail to see this and so do some programmers. They still wanted outrageous salaries. The good ones kept their jobs mostly but the other highly paid programmers either had to take a pay cut or train their replacement.

You'll notice that many business now in the IT field are re-thinking the strategy of sending programming jobs over-seas as it can often end up costing more.

You are free to do with your time, money and effort what you wish. I didn't ask you for anything and I don't expect anything in return. I am of the impression that we should be concentrating on Amercia. Call it what you want.. lack of compassion.. indifference, whatever, but my focus is on America, not some 3rd world country. My son has to grow up here and if we don't fix what's broke now, we're going to end up behind the pack real quick.

I spent a year developing applications for the facility that I work at to help personnel streamline UNION workers who INSISTED on attempting to take advantage of this place. In the past it was hard to track. My software makes it easier now and absenteeism is at an all time low. Reports are generated and layed before the union board and they have to eat their own words. I love it. That app saved this place hundreds of thousands of dollars of TAX PAYERS MONEY, thank you very much. So, you're welcome.. it was my pleasure to keep the union members in check and tracked so we can finally get our money's worth out of them. Tangent to this, my app also tracks FMLA so as you can see, it benefits both sides but only when they both are honest.

Your Mc.D's example is a half glass empty example. If you can't figure out why, then I'm sorry but the key phrase hint is "Long Term"..

FYI, I have nothing against you personally ,JP.

 

The last time the Stanley Cup was cancelled was 1919 due to the spanish flu.

 

Its really crappy its gonna be cancelled due to money. It took a plague last time it was cancelled, now its all the ritch people arguing about money. In 1919 I dont think they got payed to much. They played just to play.


but thats the way the wheel turnsl

 

Pretty sad isn't it. Can't afford to live on 1 million dolllars.. oh, wow, I feel horribly for you.

 

It's a plague of greed this time. I've still got the Komets and the UHL

@ Kodo: no probs here, either. I have no business dishing it if I can't take it.

 

So... ... ... getting back to HOCKEY! I knew the answer to the question you asked, Freddy, I just didn't get on the computer till' now.

I got a question for you: can you name the two teams that were going to play for the Stanley Cup before it was cancelled in 1919?

Play Jeopardy music... .... NOW!

 

lol

I can narrow it down to the original teams.

Other than that im too lazy to look it up.

I used to have a book on stanley cup facts, some interesting stuff has happend to it over the years.


Got mistaken for a flower pot once lol

 

One is an original six team but the other is a team that was before the original six. This may sound odd but the original six didn't come into being until after 1919.

 

Hockey was the last great hold out for me. Probably the only game that I wouldn't shun watching because I thought they were more like regular people. Oh well.. I guess the only true sport for me now will be Judo.

 

Montreal Canadiens and Seattle Metropolitans

 

That is correct!

We have some lovely parting gifts for you:Whining Superstars, Greedy Owners, and an NHL Lockout.

Come back and play anytime.

 

Do you think the guy who won all those Jepordy games had Google too?

 

He doesn't need it. He's a Robot.

 

Im gonna miss hockey, I cheer for the Leafs, yea I know,, but I was at least hoping they would have a chance this year.
I feel bad for the many employees of the arena's and sports bars, most will have to have their hours cut or worse, lose their jobs because hockey is a main reason why people go to those places.

At least the OHL will have their seats full this season,, GO BARRIE COLTS!!

 

I know how you feel on that one, hockey was the only sport ive ever watched cause it just seemed to real, people like steve yzerman are still real, about playing the sport and not about money. I shutter at basketball and don't get me started on football.

 

Here's one spin-off loss I read about. In Vancouver (go Canucks go....someday) after every hockey game 3,000 cab rides are required. Not this year. Support junior hockey this year. KOOTENAY ICE!