Software Auto Renewal Beware!!!!!

I have just spent 3 hours with a well know antivirus company re auto renewal of their product, I initially paid £39.99 for the software in 2012, they recently sent me a notification for renewal, they had taken £69.99 out of my account, I contacted them about it and discovered they had taken the same amount in 2013, a total of £138 without my permission, they informed me that renewal was automatic and that I have to go to their webpage and opt out, this was not CLEARLY stated when I loaded the software, I did manage to get a partial refund but not all. I think this is sharp practice on their behalf, is it legal.
So be very warey when installing software

 

It might be helpful to other people if you would be so bold as to mention the antivirus company so that they can avoid the same predicament.

 

All I can say is that I once had a motorbike with the same name.
You figure it out.

 

Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, Harley Davidson, Ducati...


Not ringing a bell. I guess the take home message here is don't use antivirus the same name as your bikes...

 

Think I know.

A clue for my guess. It has the same number of letters as oxooxo...

 

Wrong century and wrong country. How about Norton?

 

Yeah because those are US only bikes...wait no they aren't save for Harleys.

OP shouldn't play games and just have said who it is.

 

Indian, BMW, Paul Jr. Designs, Honda, Montesa, Triumph, Buell.... wait what are we talking about?

 

Matchless, AJS, BSA, Panther, Vincent, Ariel. Former bikers can;t resist this stuff :-D

 

I now know it's Norton AV. What bothered me about it was the fact that the renewal price had nearly doubled from the first subscription to the next.

But I'm sure somewhere in the "fine print" auto renewal was specified. Norton wouldn't be in business as long as they have been (at least since 1989 that I know of because I used to run SAM on Mac SEs and Classics) if they were sneaky and underhanded.

 

What is your definition of "clearly stated"? Any chance you just click-happied through the install and missed it?

 

If I had a dollar for everyone who says things are not clearly-stated(when it is)...I could retire :-D

 

Twice :-D

 

I didn't name the company as I didn't want to get sued, who reads all the terms and condition when you load a program, anyway it should give you the option to opt in not out. original cost of software was £39.99 but £69.99 for renewal, easy money, they have taken 2 years subs, just wonder how many other companies are doing this.
So just be on your guard.
PS The bike was a winner at the Isle of Man in the fifties and sixties

 

Well, unless your legal name is "oxooxo", that's not likely. Just say Norton; I promise no black helicopters will land in your front yard.

I read enough to not allow two thing to happen: spyware and unauthorized charges to my bank account.

 

They cannot win a defamatory suit as long as what you said is true

 

That is why you buy the boxed version and not give the company your credit card info. They do charge double, even triple for a renewal. I've been buying the 3 PC licenase versions for $20, when ever they are on sale and stocking up. The keys don't expire, so I install the 2012 version, then update to the latest.
The other thing, if I do use my credit card BOA lets you create a temporary card, so I can make a $50 limit that expires in 3 months, use it and any auto renewals will be declined because after the initial purchase there is not enough of a balance left for them to hit me again.

 

Hello,

Sorry for the trouble. I am Vineeth and I am from the Norton Support team.

The first subscription price is normally an introductory offer provided for the first time customers only. If you are not happy with the renewal price, you can go to our site and purchase the product for the price displayed. You can then use the new key to activate the existing product.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks!

Vineeth
Norton Support

 

Hi, Vineeth. Welcome to Major Geeks Forums.

Perhaps you or another member of your team can check in here from time to time for any other issues people may have with Norton products. It would be nice if people were able to get answers about Norton products directly from the source while seeking answers here at MG's. Thank you.

 

I agreed 100% with the above & have dealt with auto-renewal systems like Avangate a few times since Advanced System Care uses them for their subscription. I'm not crazy on the whole Opt out of the auto-renewal & didn't notice it the first twice I got it, but they do give you ample notice usually of the upcoming auto-payment & how to stop it. I just opt out now, I custom install everything I use to avoid toolbars & MacAfee etc being installed or programs that change your homepage (they are the worst).

Oh dear, it just occurred to me I mentioned real names & even linked a company directly. Time to move house again & lead paint the inside of it rolleyes

:major2-BIT-GEEK:major

 

I agree it's legal, but sure is a bad business practice. A person should never have to "opt out" of spending extra money on a product. I hate auto-renewal scams, and while it's tedious I very carefully read the TOS and such for software I buy to avoid such issues (and toolbars, download managers, etc.).

That's EXACTLY what the guys with the black helicopter's would say! :-D

 

Thank you for the warm welcome! We will certainly monitor this forum from time to time and help our users with the product issues. In fact, we are planning to monitor all the forums where our customers are talking about us and we need to help them with their product issues, and this is one of the major forums where we want to keep an eye on.

In case if I miss any interesting discussion, please feel free to leave me a message. I'd appreciate that!

Thanks!

Vineeth
Norton Support

 

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback! I understand your point and I will certainly pass your feedback to the concerned team.

Here is how the auto-renewal billing process work. The customer will receive a pre-billing email notification at 30 days before the Norton subscription expiration. The customer will then be charged for the Automatic Renewal at 15 days before subscription expiration. Once the user receives the email notification, if the user does not like to renew it automatically, he/she can either contact us to disable Auto-renewal or he/she can login to his/her Norton account and disable it. We also have a 60 day refund policy, where we can refund the auto-renewal charge if the user contacts us within 60 days of billing.

Thanks!

Vineeth
Norton Support

 

Ok, here is the full story, in 2012 I believe I purchased Norton anti virus for £39.99 (although I don't clearly remember doing so, old age memory loss) in the meantime I had gone over to Avast.

About 3 weeks ago I had a notification that Norton had renewed at a cost of £69.99 and that I had 60 days to cancel, on checking my credit card I found that they had taken the same amount in 2013, now I know that no notification came for that payment because I would have cancelled it there and then, So I contacted Norton ( what a B---Y rigmaroll, I spent over a hour trying to find out how to do it ) eventually I had to resort to live chat, I wanted to claim back the subscriptions for 2013 &14, the person agreed to refund the 2014 payment but not the 2013 payment because it had exceeded the 60 days, but I had no notice about it so could not have cancelled within 60 days, but they agreed to pay me 40% of the initial £39.99 which I had not asked for. I wanted £139.99 refunded but after much tooing and froing I had to settle for £87.99 so I'm out of pocket to the tune of £59.99, I'm not happy about it but its better than nothing.
In my opinion any company that makes you opt out is being deceitful .

OK I know these wise Asses will say should have read the ToC. but who does.
I have to say that the young lady that I dealt with did her job very well under the circumstances.
Wal.

 

Hello,

Sorry for the inconvenience caused! I can certainly check why this had happened. In order to check the details, I need your email address. But I am not sure whether the forum rules allow me to request your email address.

Thanks!

Vineeth
Norton Support

 

Since I feel that I'm one that comment may be aimed at from a previous response, I don't appreciate that kind of remark when I offered some assistance and won't in the future towards you.

 

Might have directed at me as well, solaris89 . . . :-D

Wise Asses, huh? All I can say is it's Wise to read the fine print on software. To fail to do so and then complain when you get charged for something, and to further complain when someone points this out too you, is kind of an Asses-esque thing to do.

I'll stick to being wise

 

OK, I started it so I will finish it, my intention was to warn others so as not to make the same mistake that I did, OK OK so I did not read all the ToC, but I believe you would probably not find it in there, perhaps someone can prove me wrong, to all the posters who have said (Should've read the ToC) you must feel very superior to us uneducated riferaff. One final note, how would you respond if you purchased a new TV say, and a year later had a charge on you credit card for renewal, in theory it's the same.
End of conversation, but be careful I may turn up again.
Wal

 

Never mind "probably", if it's not in there you have a case on your hands. I highly doubt it wouldn't be in there & I can't say anything that hasn't already been said other than this:

When you are looking at T's & C's they are usually sectioned, (1 Services, 1.2 Service overview etc) look for the section that deals with finances, billing, auto-renewal, subscriptions etc. Take a look at this It's not that long & you can skip right to section "3. Charge; Warranty; Refund" for the details you need to know.

I don't wanna continue to flog the dead horse of logic anymore, at least scan the T&C's next time though

:major2-BIT-GEEK:major

 

When one purchases a new TV one becomes the owner while purchasing a LICENSE one is NOT the owner of that said software. So in theory it's just not the same, a big difference here....

 

Hello David,

Thank you for passing the details. I really appreciate it.

I am now discussing this with the concerned team. I will keep you posted as soon as I have an update.

Vineeth
Norton Support

 

First, if you don't want to read everything I've posted below but would like to possibly save some money when renewing your Norton Security product I suggest you skip down to the section at the bottom of this post where it says "The takeaway is this."

For those interested in the gory details, read on!

Well, I found the "off switch" for the auto-renewal feature in my current copy of Norton Security some months ago. But I'm still not very happy to be treated like a ignoramus when I ask questions of a Norton rep. This happened to me earlier this evening:


As my current Norton Security license (for installation on 5 devices) will expire soon, I clicked on the "renew" link just to the right of where it shows how many days are remaining on my Norton subscription. The page it took me to showed that it will cost me $79.95 to renew my subscription to Norton Security Deluxe. The license will cover installation on 5 devices for one year (just as my last purchase did a year ago). I pointed out to the Norton rep (available through a chat client on the Norton site) that if I go their product page and buy the item (again, Norton Security Deluxe allowing installation on up to 5 devices) I can get it for $49.95.

Their rep then explained that I must have seen that higher price on an old ad. I said that was not the case, rather when I clicked on the "renew" link on my current Norton product screen it took me to the page showing the $79.95 price to renew. The rep then said that price was an error and he would "bring it to the team's attention." He/she then asked if it would be OK to phone me and said he would be able to help me renew my subscription at the "correct" price of $49.95 (again for the same product and with installation/use on up to 5 devices). This was actually at least the third request from one of the chat reps (I'd been passed from the initial rep to a second rep in chat) to talk over the phone. The request for my phone number began as soon as I pointed out the price difference I've described above.

Now, this sort of thing (I believe it was exactly the same price difference when I wanted to renew a year ago) I have observed previously when comparing Norton's renewal charge to buying the exact same product I'm renewing on Norton's own website. And I'm sure other Norton customers have seen this or similar price differences over at least the past couple of years. So if this is really an "error" it's been going on for some time!

I understand that Norton, if they wish to, can certainly charge more to people already using their software to renew than they charge to someone who chooses to purchase and download the product from Norton's own software product page. But to be told such BS ( "Oh, you must have seen an old, out-of-date ad -- the price has changed" and "Oh, that's a mistake. I'll bring it to the team's attention.") is really insulting.

C'mon Norton -- 'fess up. You're stiffing your old faithful customers by charging them $30 more than a new customer pays and when someone complains about it to a rep in chat, then you want to talk on the phone to arrange a renewal at the cheaper price. When I asked why it was necessary to talk on the phone for the special rate I was told that "sometimes it [the renewal I guess the rep meant] doesn't go through correctly." Again my BS detector said uh....BS! They want to do it over the phone because they want to continue to charge the additional $30 to most of their renewal customers and only knock off the $30 when someone complains about it.

I'm not suggesting there is anything illegal about this (don't know for certain one way or the other), but I really don't like being so brashly lied to by anyone with whom I do business. I'm not faulting the poor rep who, if they wish to keep their job, has to say what they're told to say, so much as the people at Norton who make the policy and then pass this stuff along to the hapless chat and phone reps.

I would have been fine if the rep had said (as I've found to be true in the past), "Well, it's true you can save $30 by purchasing it from our product page, but then you'll once again have to download and install it on each machine you wish to use it on and also do multiple updates for the product on each machine. All of that will take a fair amount of time involving mutltiple reboots, etc etc."

And I'm sure for some busy people that time saved may well be worth $30. But my wife and I are retired, on fixed-incomes, and so I will gladly take the additional time to save $30 and sidestep the giant helping of BS just on general principles.

Norton's not the only company that lies to its customers of course. Getting more and more difficult to find companies that, as a matter of routine, don't lie to current and potential customers it seems.

Well, I hope that's clear and I thank MG for letting me vent!

The takeaway is this. When it comes time to renew your Norton Security product see what Norton's going to charge you by clicking on the "renew" button at the bottom of the Norton product window. Then go to the Norton website and click on the link for "Products and Services" and see if it's the same price (checking to make sure you're comparing prices for the same product and for the same number of devices as your renewal would include). If it's not then go back to the renewal page and click on the "chat" button to talk to a Norton rep and ask, as a good continuing customer, for a renewal at the cheaper price. Apparently you'll have to let the rep telephone you, but this should save you some money ($30 in the case of renewing Norton Security Deluxe). At least that's what I was told earlier this evening by a Norton rep using their chat app on the Symantec/Norton website. As I haven' actually done this myself I can't say for certain what they'll say on the phone, only what the rep told me in chat and some of that really lit up my BS detector. So, caveat emptor!

As for myself, I really do like Norton's Security Deluxe, but I don't like 1) being lied to and 2) told I have to arrange it with a Norton rep over the phone "otherwise it may not go through correctly". I'll just buy it off their product page, pay the cheaper price and download it and update it rather than set myself up for another serving of BS on the side.

Kowabunga!