The only thing about George Bush I like

This will either help improve moods from my last attempt at debate, or maybe p**s people off even more
www.bushorchimp.com

 

You should have posted this BEFORE the elections...I coulda won Ohio.

 

ROTFLMAO @ John Kerry



I'll debate you Mike. But I'm British/Canadian, so I don't know much about Bush.

 

To John Kerry: You couldn't have won, because Ohio was this election's Florida
To Mr. Pewty: No need to debate about "Dubya"; His quote, "The jury's still out on how God created us" tells me all I need to know

 

That's not even close to the funniest thing I've heard form him. There's a 365 page desk calendar out there somewhere with a lot of his goof ups. But isn't that beside the point? (I look upon his problems with the spoken word as an impediment, something to evoke sympathy, not derision.)

Other than that, what has he done that you would do differently?

 

I know this will cause laughter (we're talking politicians here), but the first thing would be....tell the truth!
On a serious note: how can anyone or any nation "speak globally but act locally"? This administration's foreign policy- in all matters- speaks for itself.
P.S.- the calendar: www.bushcalendar.com

 

Note to M.P.~ the quote re: "Jury still out" wasn't funny. Does anyone find this as odd as I do? This man thumps a bible a few times to negate his past behavior, and then to pull in votes?!? If he really did believe in what he says, there would be no jury- a religious person accepts what is as the work of his/her diety, without question. The truth usually slips out between the cracks of lies. This guy only believes in making everything the way he wants it to be.

 

OK,OK, I'll start taking my meds again, and stop posting (is that cheering I hear?)

 

No politicians tell the truth. None of them. Even my favourite one lied when he thought he had to. He had WW2 to win though.

George Bush wins votes the way his advisors tell him to. They are the brains behing his re-election, not him. If appealing to religious fundamentalists is what it takes, then that's what they'll do.

Understand, I don't like GB. I just don't dislike him any more than I dislike any politician all the way back to Churchill. They are all esrwnak. ( I find anagrams so much more fun than asterisks)

Right now in Canada I'm living under one of the most morally corrupt, politically useless governments ever. You should think yourself lucky.

 

What blows my mind is that a president can lie about his personal life (an affair) and get impeached, but a president can lie about about a war, and kill thousands of innocent Civilians, and go about his merry way?



cooked

 

Good point Cooked. Think about the Fundalmentalists and it all makes sense.

 

How do you know they were innocent?

 

Well im not saying that every single person that is killed is innocent, but when many women and children are dieing because of our actions that disturbs me.



cooked

 

Well, it's a war.

I thought the world would be a better place without Saddam in charge of Iraq, so I supported it. Like a lot of other people I suppose, I would have liked to have seen it handled a little better. But it ain't gonna happen without casualties, no matter how well it is handled.

 

Yes thats true it is a war and people are going to die, but just think why we are there. Back when, Bush was feeding us all this information about weapons of mass destruction, (i remember seeing a map of Iraq all color coded. each color represented what weapons; chemical, biological, and nuclear that where in that area) how much Saddam was a threat to the united states, and that we where going to be attacked by Iraq. The fear propaganda, as slowly as it was feed in, was there. Do you not remember being told to buy duck tape to seal off your house from a chemical, or biological attack? With all that being shown on the news everyday, its no wonder the American people said, "ok lets go, we don't want to get attacked by Saddam and die."

Well as we all found out Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. They where not a threat to the united states, and we where not in Immediate danger of being attacked by them. Heck we found Saddam in a hole. Does that sound like a person who is in charge of his county, and such a deadly threat to the united states?

Now we are being told that the reason we went into Iraq was to liberate the people. No one wants to mention WMDs or any threat to the United States. No one says anymore that Saddam was directly linked to Alkieda. Now i wonder why? Was it the fact that none of the information that the Bush administration was feeding us was true? Did they just use the fear propaganda to get us to go to war, and then just feed us what they want us to hear so we don't question anything? That sounds like what is going on now don't you think?

Yes i do think the war should have been handled better. I don't think it should have happened in the first place, but since it did, it could have been handled much much better.



cooked

 

As far as the weapons of mass destruction go, if I gave you a couple of dozen barrels of Sarin, and unlimited funds, do you think you could hide them in a country the size of Iraq? Heck, you could hide them in Rhode Island!

Saddam Hussein hates America, and he's a nutcase. He lives in the Middle East, in an area surrounded by countries that are full of nutcases who hate America, but who are also willing to do something about it. I think it is naive to believe that he was not funding terrorists. We know he was funding suicide bombings against Isreal.

It was in America's best interests to depose Saddam. That much I believe. The planning was poor, the execution adequate, and the handling of the aftermath rates an F.

In the long run, I think fewer innocents will die as a result of this war than if it had never happened.

 

I had typed in a huge comment (I have a big mouth), and was kicked off?
If this works, I'll try again

 

Sorry, Gotta go- I'll get back to this later (Hey, Mr. Pewty, I've been called a wanker, too! I enjoyed England every time I went; I'd go to Canada, but I"m not allowed into the country- but that's another story

 

Is there a limit to the size of a post? Twice I've typed up a (long-winded) response, and been kicked off both times with a priveledge violation.... or is GW monitoring me????

 

OK, I'll keep it short(er)- the only innocents are the children who haven't yet learned to be subjective- yes, innocents always die in war...
But who's the good guy or the bad guy? Depends who you ask, I suppose.
But Iraq is not the only problem Bush has created; his domestic, as well as his foreign, policies are detrimental to all. Pick a subject: health care, Rx drugs (how come you Canadians aren't dying from all those dangerous drugs we can't get?); "No Child Left Behind"; Social Security; Value of human life? (stem cell research and abortion- those lives must be more valuable than all the lives snuffed while he was Governor of Texas- he holds the record for executions); the Geneva Convention; Environment; world poverty; unilateralism; the list goes on.....

 

I don't know a great deal about American domestic policy, but one thing you mentioned touches a nerve with me. I can't believe that anybody would be against stem cell research, in any and all forms it takes.

Health care: Our health care system up here is in just as bad a state as yours. I don't support either system, thinking instead that a person with a much bigger brain than mine might be able to combine the two to find something that works. Until then, people will continue to die in the line-ups.

The executions don't bother me much, as long as they were guilty.

The Geneva convention is a contentious issue. I've heard it said that it only applies to uniformed soldiers in a declared war.

The environment is another sore point with me. But that's a thread in itself. I don't think GW is good for it, but I don't think humans in general are particularly good for it either. I get pretty radical with my environmental solutions.

World Poverty: The U.S. probably gives as much as any country to alleviate hunger and poverty in the world, but in attempt to placate those who would accuse it of paternalism, it allows the people on the ground to decide how the funds are dispersed. Therefore, it all goes to weapons and armies and palaces and various other trappings of tyrannical despotism.

 

Excellent points! This is a good debate! OK~ Geneva Convention; the U.S. HAS declared war, and there have been undeniable cases that are considered war crimes; double-talk does not justify crimes on BOTH sides (believe me, I support anyone willing to risk death to do what he thinks is right); and why did the U.S. pull out of the World Court?
On a lighter note- sort of- , I totally agree with you on the environment; we're all guilty (have you seen "The Matrix"? My favorite part was when humans were compared to a virus).

 

You got that right! With all the cures and good that could come from it why not pursue it?

 

How about Social Security ( where a U.S. citizen is supposedly allowed to live life out under the care of the system that he/she paid into)? Bush didn't cause the existing problem, but his solution? Let me give you an analogy:
Q:"My credit card is maxed out! I can't pay the bill, but I need more stuff- what do I do?"
GW:"Simple! Raise your credit limit! Buy what you need! Don't worry about your bill; all you gotta do is take whatever money you borrow, and go to the Casino (aka stock market); hell, you'll win all you need to get yerself outa that there hole! Just remember to put your kids' names on your card as co-borrowers, he he he..."

 

Boy, I got a big mouth
For anyone who really is into the religious aspect of this, check this out:
www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4devil.htm

 

We all seem to agree on more than we disagree.

@Cooked, I think you got the wrong impression with my comment on the Environment. I too think it needs protecting, but my way of going so would include forced sterilization and the abolishing of the automobile (as we know it), so I don't tend to win too many debates on that.
As far as the death penalty goes, I'm not religious at all, and I have no objection to killing someone who deserves it. I am actually against the death penalty because of the possibility of a wrongful conviction, but morally, I don't care at all.
Your comment as far as comparing it to abortion is a non starter to me. Sure, most right wing pro-capital punishment types are against abortion, but then, most pro-choice types are against capital punishment. They cancel each other out.
Our comments on poverty are basically the same.

@ Mike, the U.S. had declared war, but didn't they follow the convention with regards to regular Iraqi forces? Correct me if I am wrong here. I don't know for sure. Insurgents out of uniform, terrorists from other nations etc, are not covered. (I don't think)
I think the U.S. pulled out of the world court because it would be in a no win situation. Every tinpot dictator would be taking the U.S. to court for every action they took against them. If your going to be the world's policeman, you have to be allowed to do the job.

It's a basic fact that the Western democracies are better at respecting human rights and providing a higher quality of life for its population than any other area on Earth. It can be argued that we have the lion's share of the resources, but so what? Given what we have, I feel it is our duty to try and help those less well off than ourselves. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You have to try.

 

Hi Mike, I might be a completely wishy washy fence sitter when it comes to God, but I sure don't believe in the Devil.

Very few people do. The world would be a wonderful place if we all did.

 

Who picked the U.S. to be WorldCop? The World Court, as far as I know, would only have trouble with the way the U.S. was dealing with P.O.W.'s (what else do you call them? Did we go to Iraq to hand out traffic tickets?)
And just because a soldier isn't wearing a uniform doesn't mean it's not a war. Those guys live there; and frankly, if the U.S. was invaded by a superior military force, I would expect us to use guerrilla tactics- I sure wouldn't put on a uniform (might as well carry around a "shoot me" sign). I honestly believe that we are there because Daddy Bush told Baby Bush a war like that was a no-win situation, and George, being the stubborn man he is, tried to prove HW wrong.

 

To be blunt, I don't believe in any God, but I totally believe in everyone's right to think what they want. If Bush wants to play the God card, he should learn the rules of the game. (Oh, by the way; correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Devil invented in the New Testament to explain why people act like people? And, please, folks, don't get mad- I'm only expressing my own opinion)

 

Firstly, MikeH you're wrong about the devil thing, completely off base, about as far off as you can be actally . Secondly, I think having the U.S. as a sort of world cop is quite good, I mean who else is going to do it? George W. is just doing what other governing bodies are unable to do (i.e. the UN being unable to depose dictatorial rulers). You do have to admit though, even though Iraq is in a bad way because of Bush' contrevertial decision for a war(even though there are no more mass genocides going on anymore.. so it's better than before... much better), it will in the long run be much much better off for it.

Just let me say that I'm actaully quite amazed at how tame this thread is, generally, (especially in Canada) if Bush comes up in a conversation, someone always brings up the myth that he has an I.Q. of 70 or something.

 

No argument here. I'm only saying that the Geneva convention doesn't cover them. It wouldn't cover you either in the situation you describe.

The most powerful nation on the planet has a responsibility to be (ok, it's a bad term) the "world cop". Look what happened in Rwanda when it was left up to the United Nations to do something.

We have to get past the notion that sovereingty means you can do whatever you want. A powerful nation with the means to change a situation should not sit back and let bad things happen just because there is a border in the way.

 

Cool, Cap'n- I've been wrong a lot (but that's how I learn); what IS the deal on ol' Lucifer? And GW is a LOT smarter than he lets on (with that "I'm one of you" good ole boy nonsense). As far as genocide goes, if that's the problem, then why are we still there? Saddam's not in power! And if genocide is the soup d'jour for war, why aren't we heading to Darfour? (by the way, I'm sure everybody in Iraq is so happy we got rid of Saddam, they don't mind that their country is being blown to s**t, utilities don't work any more, a new regime is being shoved down their throats, they're moving towards civil war- do you really believe there will be no more "ethnic cleansing" if and when we leave?) And as far as world cop- seems as though Saddam was in check, thanks to U.N. sanctions. And being head honcho ALWAYS builds animosity, especially when others' opinions are ignored.

 

Major, I salute you! That was funny!

 

One more thing before I split for the night: Thank you to everybody who commented on this thread; this is the best way for an old pr*ck like me to learn and think; I have a lot of catching up to do (there's another thread that clarifies that statement). I sincerely appreciate it!

 

My pleasure Mike. Love the debate.


Prock? Prack? I don't get it.

 

Thank you.

I enjoy a Intelligent debate that isn't full of slandering one liners, and all rumors. Being only 17 i don't get the chance to do this so i take advantage of every opportunity. Great time for me to learn.

Have a good holiday!



cooked

 

Mr. Pewty, I was thinking about something you said~ abolishing the automobile would be so good for everyone and everything on this planet! Where do I sign up?

 

I would be behind that if we could find another convenient mean of transportation.

Or we could optimize the automobile, and find more Environmentally safe fuels. Have you seen IRobot? The system they had in place where a central computer ran the travel system made it much safer. If we could come up with a system like that while we look for better fuel sources (hybrid, and hydrogen) we could set our selfs up really nice.



cooked

 

I was thinking more like bicycles, horses, and good old walking~ would slow down the overly fast pace, most likely create more of a "village"-type atmosphere (set up business closer to home, less isolation); keep mass transit for those who need to commute (electromagnetic?); hydrogen is not going to happen for a long time, and would use up a LOT of water. Just a thought.........

 

Interesting.