uninterruptible power supply (UPS) / battery backup models

Hello,
I am looking to purchase a new UPS battery backup and have been looking at the Cyberpower CP1500AVRT and the Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD.

I did a compare at newegg.com but other than knowing that I want to get one with sinewave and that I want something with 900 watts of power I just don't understand some of the other things that are stated in the compare side by side. I did have an APC and it was good and lasted for about 4 years but for what it is going to cost me for the replacement battery I can get a Cyberpower for just a few dollars more and from some of the things I have read the Cyberpower units are just as good. These 2 units are also much lighter than the older APC unit that died (and I am just guessing that it is just a dead battery issue which is the other reason I thought I would just replace it) and that is a plus for me.

Anyway, would anyone be able to explain exactly what the difference is between the CP1500AVRT and the CP1500AVRLCD (besides a price difference of $10). The AVRT model does have a 3 year limited labor and limited parts warranty and the other one only has a 3 year limited parts warranty.

Any information would be so very much appreciated.

Thanks!

One other question - is it worth paying the extra for the accidental damage warranty that newegg offers?

 

AVR has nothing to do with simulated sine wave or true sine wave.

I am not an electrical engineer but you can get AVR with a pure sine wave UPS.

I'd say the biggest difference is one has an LCD and one does not.

 

I agree with Adrynalyne on this. AVR simply means "automatic voltage regulation". It really has nothing to do with the final waveform "type". AVR constantly monitors the incoming voltage and ensures the voltage coming in is reduced if too high, or increased if too low.

Without AVR, a UPS is just a basic battery backup. With AVR, a UPS is primarily (IMO) a line voltage regulator AND the icing on the cake (again, IMO) is the battery backup.

Where did you read that, plodr?

This is very deceiving - and twisted - I suspect by marketing weenies.

I've been using and advocating the use of a "good" UPS with AVR on ALL PCs (and home theater systems too) for 25 years. And like PSUs, there are quality UPS and cheap UPS you should avoid.

A quality active PFC PSU can EASILY deal with a "approximation sinewave" UPS with absolutely no problems!

From personal experience over YEARS, I have used dozens of Antec, Corsair, Mushkin, OCZ, Seasonic, and TT power supplies on APC, Tripp Lite and CyberPower UPSs and never encountered problems.

Remember, on all but the most expensive UPS, 99% of the time, the line voltage shoots through the UPS unaltered. It is only when anomalies are encountered that the AVR and battery backup circuits kick in (on the best UPS, the batteries actually provide power full through the regulator circuits. You do not need to buy the best UPS, but you should avoid the budget models.

Bottom line, a cheap, generic PSU may have problems with a cheap UPS, but a decent PSU on a "good" UPS with AVR will be protected and served well.

For sure, "pure sinewave" is better but your PC, LCD monitors, and all your network gear will function just fine with an "approximation sinewave" from a "good" UPS with AVR.

Fortunately, pure sinewave UPS are becoming more affordable.

I have the APC XS 1500 Pro protecting this i7, 16Gb system with two 22" Widescreen monitors, my modem, router, and switch.

I really like the LCD readout because I don't have to fire up the PC to see what is happening to my power. Another really nice feature of the LCD is you can see how much power you are actually drawing from the wall. It is actually amazing how little that actually is (most of the time) - even with a pretty big system like this. For example, right now I am drawing only 180W (and 70 - 75 of that is to the monitors).

 

Okay - well again, the AVR circuitry directly affects ("regulates") the input voltage from the wall, not the output voltage of UPS.

 

Thanks for all the input. I had an APC DLA1500VA UAB 120V - which is what was originally recommended to me by APC back when I got it. I guess that maybe I should have explained a few things (I should know better than to not include everything).

Anyway, I had contacted APC about getting something with a battery backup to it because we wanted to plug our big screen TV into it (and the cable box). Nothing else gets plugged into it. The reason being was because I already had a using which I used for my desktop pc at the time and where we were moving to (currently live) we tend to get more power blips or quick power outages (live in the middle of nowhere -all farmland and mountains) and we wanted to protect our TV from those sort of power outages and surges (parents had a tv go because of them). Anyway we weren't looking to be able to run the tv for long periods of time - just so that we could safely shut the tv off if there was a power outage as well as protect it in the case of a quick power off and then it came back within a minute or so. They wanted to know the specifications of the cable box and tv and they recommended the 1500VA or one that was a bit smaller but would power the tv for a shorter period of time. We decided on the 1500VA - do not need it to be that large for just those 2 units. They were the ones that also said that we needed something with sinewave which is why I am looking at the two units I mentioned originally.

As for the unit having an LED screen - not necessary and I would only be blocking it out (unless there is an option to only have it come on if there is an issue).

So, I guess the question is --- will either of those 2 units be just fine or should I be looking at something else? At that time (back in 2006) APC did sell a product for televisions but it did not have a battery backup to it and that is why we wanted to go with a UPS unit and still do.

Thanks Again!

 

On my APC, the LCD display only appears when I press the Menu button, then goes away after a minute or two of no button pushing.

I have a 1500VA UPS on my HT system and supports my big screen LCD TV, cable box, Blu-ray player, Roku streamer, 4-port Ethernet switch, powered 150W sub-woofer, AND a hefty Onkyo HT receiver pushing 5 speakers. Like you, I put them on the UPS for protection and "graceful" shutdowns - not to watch movies during a power outage.

That "sounds" like they were trying to sell you a "voltage regulator" and/or surge protection - things you don't likely need. So it was good you went with a UPS.

The UPS you are considering are fine.

 

So sorry that it has taken me this long to reply - this past month has been just awful with snow and ice and power outages (and loss of internet a few times when power was restored). Took us forever to even get the driveway cleared to be able to go anywhere and then we would get hit again. I actually simply forgot to go through all of the emails until the other day. Again, sorry for the delay.

Anyway, I do appreciate the input and information. Now that things have settled down and I have some time for the normal things again I will go back to looking into getting one of those 2 UPS units since there really isn't any big difference between them.

At least I now know that I am not the only one that is using these for the home entertainment (TV/stereo) systems.

Like you Digerati - I was not looking to be able to watch movies and such during the power outage. In fact once we know that the power is going to be out for more than a half hour or so we go down and hook up the generator so we can have our well, septic and heat up an running and if we want we can even watch TV. Just like the peace of mind of being able to gracefully shut those things down without having to worry about something being damaged.

Thanks Again!!!!

 

I wish everyone would.

I live in Eastern Nebraska - I feel your pain on the weather. Fortunately for us, the bulk of the bad double-whammy stuff this time slid either a 100 miles to the north or 150 miles to the south of us. So we only got a couple 4 - 6 inch hits. Sub zero temps, however, with 40 - 50 mph wind gusts are impossible to hide from. Brrrr.

There is a unfortunate downside to UPS. Most (except for the most expensive) use SLA (sealed lead-acid) batteries which are similar in construction and materials as car batteries - only smaller, and most UPSs use 2 or 4 batteries - depending on capability. Like car batteries, SLA batteries wear-out and need to be replaced about every 3 years. Fortunately, this is a simple "user" task.

Do note the UPS makers will want you to buy replacement batteries from them. Don't do it unless you want to spend a LOT more money than you need to. I buy my UPS batteries from Apex, BatteryWholesale, or Batteryplex, depending on who has the best price on that day (factoring in shipping, which can be significant, but sometimes free).

 

I know that when my parents TV died due to a power surge (and then power outage) I was able to convince them to get one as well. Don't know of anyone else that is doing it - but I think it is a very good investment. Heck we buy them for our computers so why not the rest of the electronics in our homes!

I did have to replace the batteries at one time in my original UPS for the desktop and I don't recall who I bought it from but after seeing the price for the brand name replacement and the difference in cost for an "after market" replacement battery I went with the after market as well. Like you said - it really is an easy thing to replace them. The original UPS I had only had one battery - but that one was so old (purchased back around 1999) that I recently replaced that one with a newer unit.

We have had some really frigid temps this year - but nothing like what you get in Nebraska! This year has also been exceptional for the amount of snow as well and it just seems like we were getting hit every couple of days with at least a few inches and that was all piling up on top of the 18+ inches we got in one snowfall. It has gotten to be a real challenge to pull out of side streets (let alone our own driveway) when you can't see around the mounds of snow that are taller than I am in some places!

Fortunately we did have a brief warm up over the weekend and some of it did melt but it has gotten cold again. They say that next week will be better. I sure hope so - I really could use some spring temps about now! I sure you wouldn't mind them either.

Thanks for the suggestions for where to look for the replacement batteries. Will keep a note about those places (much easier than just doing a search) with my paperwork for the units.

Thanks Again!

Lisa

 

Considering a big screen TV can easily cost more than our computers, I agree. Add in the costs of a nice HT receiver, BR/DVD player, game console, DVR/Cable box and a "good" UPS with AVR seems like a no-brainer.

Just remember, like computer power supplies, you want to avoid the budget models. You don't have to buy the most expensive, but you do need a good one as they react much faster to power anomalies and their resulting waveform is much "cleaner" than budget models.

 

I honestly don't understand the waveform and sinewave thing much but I do know that eventually APC did tell me that if I really wanted to put my TV and any other types of audio / video equipment on one that it should be one that lists sinewave in the information about the unit which is why I was looking at those 2 specific units.

Is that not something that I need to be looking for?

I agree - we pay alot of money for these pieces of equipment and it is insane to not want to protect them the way we do our computers. I know that they say that you get what you pay for but I honestly don't think that the most expensive units are always the best bet - but will not look at something at the bottom of the barrel / budget models since I want to protect the equipment not just think that it is protected.

I am not asking you to tell me what to get but in your opinion is there something else or another type that I should be looking into?

Well, I am off to get ready to pick up my parents for their doctors appointments. Will check back later on this afternoon.

Thanks Again,

Lisa

 

@ lmhjcr, if you still have your old APC UPS you may be able to find a less expensive replacement battery for it here.

http://excessups.com/apc-ups-battery-c-133.html

I bought 1 for my older APC UPS for only $99.

 

The best UPS output "pure" sine wave waveforms (same as comes out of the wall outlet). These used to be used primarily on things like patient monitoring, and medication delivery equipment, and were very expensive. Fortunately, prices for pure sine wave UPS but have been coming down considerably in recent years.

Next down is "approximation" sine wave waveforms. This is what most "good" UPS provide and this is just fine for our computers, monitors, and network equipment, big screen TVs and home theater equipment when the UPS is used primarily as protection devices, instead of "backup power" devices. That is, a "good" UPS with AVR will protect our computers, data, and home theater systems from sudden power anomalies that could disrupt service, or damage our equipment - giving us plenty of backup power time to "gracefully" save our data and shut down our equipment without data loss or equipment damage.

That assumes, of course, a quality power supply is used in the computer, and not some budget, non-80 Plus certified PSU.

Budget UPS may have approximation sine wave outputs, but budget models typically do not have as tight of "regulation" (AVR) or more importantly, as fast response or "cut-over" times to battery as the better UPS do.

Note the ATX12V Form Factor PSU Design Guide dictates that computer power supplies maintain output despite a loss of input power for a minimum of just a mere 17 milliseconds! A power "flicker" of just 17ms is MUCH MUCH faster than the human eye can detect!

A budget UPS may not react and cut-over to battery power quick enough to prevent a computer PSU from shutting down, potentially corrupting our drives. That defeats a primary purpose for having a UPS in the first place.
We must remember that the purpose for using a "good" UPS with AVR on our computers and HT systems is to "protect" said equipment from abnormal power anomalies and sudden disruptions (and destructive returns) of power.

If our need is to ensure 24/7/365 uptime and access to our computers, networks, and HT systems, then a different backup power solution is needed (like generators with UPS).

So, like cheap computer power supplies, we must avoid cheap UPS too. If the budget allows for a UPS with AVR that provides a "pure" sine wave output then for sure, go for that. The resulting sine wave will leave less regulation for the computer PSU and other power supplies to compensate for. That provides a bit of stress relief, and maybe cooler operation.

****


@Puppy - $99 sounds like way too much to me. It is important to note these batteries are the same, regardless if they are used in a APC, Cyberpower, Belkin or Brand XYZ UPS. Putting "APC" on the label does not make the battery $20 better, only $20 more expensive.

Note that APC, for example, may sell the battery as a "pack" - that is, more than one battery strapped (and taped) together. But you can buy individual batteries and strap them together yourself much cheaper.

 

@Digerati - I have an APC SmartUPS 1500 and $99 may seem like a lot for a battery, but it's better than paying $180 for 1 from APC. I did find replacement RBC7 batteries on Amazon for a little less but then S&H and tax to NYS would have brought the price up to or more than the 1 I got that included free shipping.

 

I agree 100%.

But $72 with free shipping for two 12V 18ah batteries is better.

 

I can hear the laughter, I have an APC 500! It has been doing just fine for nearly four years, protecting my cable setup modem and R7000 router, 52 in Samsung, my tower. It has yet to not give time to shut stuff down, so far still has its original battery. Borrowed time for sure!

 

No laughter here - but do note 4 years is pushing it.

I test my UPS with 1 or 2 (depending on UPS size) 150 watt light bulbs. That is, I connect the lamps to the UPS and pull the plug from the wall to see what happens.

 

Thanks Again for all the help and especially the information on the different types of wave forms. I really do appreciate all of the help.

The original unit I had was purchased back around 1999 and it still worked and I only had to replace the batteries in it once and it is still working but I replaced that one since it was over 10 years old I just wasn't sure how dependable it would still be. I never thought to test them out with a lamp and see what happens. Great Idea! (don't have any regular lamps in our house since we have recessed lighting or ceiling lights in all the rooms but I do have a one of those balanced spectrum lamps that I could use)

As it turns out I will be getting the unit that I had gotten for my parents (and just got new batteries for about 4 months ago) for their TV and Cable box. That is a APC 1500VA UAB 120V unit so I am going to wait until the end of the month and will do the lamp test first before going out and purchasing a new unit. They are moving into a senior housing/nursing center and won't need it anymore so I might as well see if that one still works well before buying a new one.

Again, Thanks So Very Much for all the help and information!

Lisa

 

It does not have to be an incandescent light bulb but they impose a decent, stable load. I know they are getting hard to find, so something suitable can be used instead.

Although yanking the UPS plug from the wall while the computer is connected and running is probably the best test for the UPS, if the batteries do not properly take over, the computer will "hard" crash with the risk your hard drive (and your data) will become corrupt.

 

The odd thing is that I still have some incandescent bulbs - I just don't have any lamps to put them into. We have recessed lighting in the kitchen, living room and bathroom and ceiling lights in the bedrooms, laundry room, basement and garage - just no regular lamps. But I'll find something to test it out with. Thanks Again!

 

You local hardware should have one of those rubber sockets with pig tails they use for work lighting, I picked up one a while back for under $3.

Phil

 

Not exactly sure what that is but I'm sure that the guys at our local hardware store will know what I mean. Thanks Again!

 

You can probably find a little bedside lamp for a couple $$$ at the Dollar Store or Walmart. If you go to a hardware store, they may have one of these work lamps.

 

The construction rubber sockets are quite cheap and make very portable test lamps or temporary lighting.

 

@plodr - my 150 is bigger than your 100!!!!

 

Thanks for the pic ~ now I know exactly what to look for if I can't find something at the dollar store or wal-mart!

In regards to the question - Does your husband have a 100 watt maximum work light with an aluminum collar in his shop area? That is just too funny (if you know my hubby) ~ I am the one with the tools - he tried putting together our mailbox and screwed that up (and he the instructions which were pretty straight forward).

Thanks Again for Everything!!!!

 

Sounds like we had similar dads! Thanks Again!
Lisa