W98 install aid needed

Oh, newbie geek here, trying to reformat the HD on an XP system so I can load W98. Just because Dell's hardware support team had me remove everything inside my tower (except the motherboard) three times, I figured I'm a geek...but now that it's time to uninstall XP and install W98 (so I can play my old games*wink*), I'm suddenly afraid I'll mess something up BIG time.

Can anyone tell me if there's anything special I should do? I was going to just uninstall XP, then stick the W98 disk in and follow the prompts...am I right, is that ALL I have to do??? Oh, and I'm working with a Compaq laptop with a fried modem, which I figured would be perfect for old game usage. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. And who knows, maybe some day I WILL be a real geek!!! (I can only hope!)

 

Ok, I've been reading the boards a bit, and now I'm wondering...do I even have to uninstall XP? Could I simply install a second OS? If so, is there anything I'd have to do first? Sorry to be so un-geek-like, but I guess I have to start somewhere, right?*wink*

 

First of all, if XP is configured in NFTS, you will need to format it to fat 32 for Windows 98.
You can't use XP to create and format the partition as you should, although XP's Disk Management will allow you to delete an NTFS partition make a new partition and then format it to FAT.
Another method is to use a WinME startup disk and use Fdisk and the WinME format to create larger FAT32 partitions.
Or, Partition Magic will do the conversion from NTFS to FAT32.

 

To install a second operating system, you just need another partition to put it in - If you have not got a second partition,Partition magic will make one for you Always save any data , first, if you need it..

 

It is best to have 98 , on the primary partition, and XP on the next - Windows will give less problems if the earlier system is in place first.

 

Several partitioning software here
http://www.majorgeeks.com/downloads8.html
freeware from that link
http://www.majorgeeks.com/CPM_Cute_Partition_Manager_d5369.html
http://www.majorgeeks.com/Ranish_Partition_Manager_d1145.html

Hope this helps, as I am off , now.
Good luck, happy geeking

 

Baklogic, I checked out those links, read the text...This sounds a bit beyond me. If I save the drivers (video and audio) and then just reformat the drive...you're saying that it will reformat in NTFS rather than FAT? Am I getting that right? So W98 wouldn't work, because it was the wrong format? Ohmagosh, I think I've bitten off more than I can chew! Ok, let me read up on this a bit more...geesh, all this so I can play my old games.*shaking head* Thanks for the help, though, just wish I understood 1/2 of what you were saying!*LOL*

 

Insert Windows ME start up floppy disk. Start the pc (which has to be set to boot from floppy before hard drive or it won't work). You should get a menu screen that has 4 options. I seem to remember you can choose any except the Help one. At the prompt (after a long wait while it loads drivers etc) type FDISK
When the menu appears, go for the "Display Partition Information" option (I think it's called something like that). At any time, if you need to go back to the previous menu, hit the ESC key. It might say, "Delete Primary DOS partition", or it may say, "Delete non DOS partition. If it tells you there isn't a partition to delete, try again and go for whatever other partition you haven't tried to delete (hope that makes sense). Anyway, if you delete the partition, you make the XP installation unbootable, so you can then format the hard drive, and install Windows 98. I can't remember if a 98 disk will format the drive or if you have to do it beforehand. If you do, (after restarting the computer and waitng again etc) it's

FORMAT C:

or, if using a Windows 98 start up floppy, I think it's

FORMAT C: /s/v

When that's all sorted, remove the floppy and put the W98 CD in the drive, restart the computer, and it should autorun and start the installation. If it doesn't, boot it from the floppy again, and at the prompt, I think you have to type in
D: setup.exe

 

I don't have ME...I only bought W98 and had no idea I needed ANOTHER OS, too!!!*ROFL* Boy, I really DID bite off too much, huh? I even called (dare I say it here?) the Geek Squad...they want $140 to install it for me! Nope, ain't gonna go there. But hey, if I ever find someone that has ME and will let me use it, thanks for the directions, I think I could actually follow 'em!*LOL*

 

You can download the ME start up disk off the internet somewhere. I haven't got a link, but I've see posts (not sure if they were here or not) about sites where you can get it.

Don't pay someone else to do it unless you absolutely have to. It's a shame to spend the money (yes I'm a tight git, I admit) and apart from that, it's more satisfying when you can say you did it yourself, and build up some confidence to do more things next time.

Link - for free download of bootdisk

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

I just downloaded ME Bootdisk (OEM) to see how easy it was. It's very quick and it's a self extracting file. Once it's downloaded, double click on it, put a blank formatted floppy in the drive that should do it.

 

http://www.majorgeeks.com/DOSBox_d4381.html
http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/information.php?page=0
http://vogons.zetafleet.com/index.php?c=7
USB 2.0 and wireless cards/adapters were a no go on my Win 98, 2.0 ran as 1.1 and no drivers available for wireless. 98SE is much better in these regards. DOSBox should run your old games on XP.
Bug

 

If you're still up to it...

First, boot the machine with a Win98SE Boot Disk and use fdisk to delete ALL partitions on the hard disk, ie; anyFATxx, and NON-DOS.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;255867

Create a new FAT32 partition (if your hard disk size is large enough to allow it) and make it ACTIVE.

Exit fdisk (ESC, ESC, until exited) and reboot the machine, again with the bootdisk.

Format the new partition. See link below.

Install 98. See link below.

The following link outlines two procedures for installation.
1) Installing from the CDROM,
2) Copying the setup files to the hard disk and installing from there.

Bootdisk link (containing fdisk and format) is above and there too:

http://www.d-a-l.com/help/showthread.php?t=50732

Post back if you have any problems.

 

If your hard drive is large enough, for a spare 30gb, or so, then keep XP, and use one of the partitioning software offered, and partition your hard drive, and then just put in your 98 (98se ?), cd and setup up 98- simple as that.
You will then have a boot option for XP, or, 98-

CMaguire, don't be put off, Tarquin,Bugballou, and Dan, have tried to help, but if you have 98se, it will be fairly straightforward- follow Dan's advice, which , if you click on Win98SE Boot Disk , gives you the 98se bootdisk!

Tarquin's link http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm will give you the ME version of installing,
AND Bugballou, has given you three.

Being a geek, like you will be, means trying , and sometimes feeling like crying, when it goes wrong. At least you have the answers- not as complicated as it seems.

 

The lowest version O/S (in this case 98 - FAT32) must be loaded/installed first. This is what gives you the "dual-boot" option on a single machine.

If you have an XP installation, ~AND~ it's on a FAT32 partition (which will allow 98 to "see" the partition) as opposed to NTFS, I have a link which I can post which gives an ELABORATE process of installing 98 after XP has been installed. But you're better off starting with the lowest O/S, then installing successively higher O/S's to get dual or triple booting on one machine.

 

Attempting to put some of this in simple language for a beginner (as we all were once - I remember getting my father to walk me through all this on long distance phone calls!)

FDISK - this is about telling the computer whether the hard disk is to be used as one big disk or is to pretend to be more than one disk. It's also known as partitioning. My laptop thinks it has two hard disks inside and it only has one. And before you ask, sadly no; pretending it's more than one disk doesn't give you more room - it has to be shared but not equally unless you choose to. You can make it pretend to be as many hard disks as you like but it isn't usual to go above 3. The main reasons for partitioning a disk are to keep your data and operating system separate in case the operating system goes wrong "big-time" and making backing up easier. If you decide to have more than one operating system on your hard disk, such as 98 and XP, they each need their own partition.

Format - this is about setting the hard disk up to know how to store files. Mostly about how big each little storage box is going to be. LET ME CORRECT THIS! "You can format in FAT or NTFS." Sorry, that should have read that there are two types of file system, FAT and NTFS. You have to use FAT for Windows 98 and you would use FAT32. HERE ENDS THE CORRECTION. Although there are different types of FAT around, the only one generally used these days is FAT32. Windows ME might be able to read an NTFS disk and 2000 and XP can but 98 and anything earlier can't. This is why people are saying to use the ME startup disk to set up your hard disk. 98 may turn round and say there isn't anything there.

When the hard disk is partitioned and formatted, it's ready for Windows 98 to go on. No, to whoever said that, the setup for 98 doesn't handle the fdisk and format; that is done before-hand using the startup disk and working at the command prompt.

So in order:
Partitioning (FDISK)
Formatting
Install Windows.

Partitioning and formatting don't always have to be done. They may be done already.

When formatting, you can just use format c: or you can add the /s and make it format c: /s which means certain system files are copied to the hard disk during the format. Also, during a format, the hard disk gets checked for errors but only the partition you're in. So if you're on the C: disk, only C: gets checked.

Best if you answer certain questions and then people will be able to help you make the decisions you need to make. So, let's start:

Do you know if your version is Windows 98 or 98SE?
Do you know if you're file system is FAT or NTFS? (Someone help me out here by telling CMcQuire how to work this out - I'm having a mental blank on this one!)

I'm sure there are other questions that need asking but that's a start.

 

The partitioning tool used is what determines the file system. Fdisk makes FAT partitions. Whether it's FAT12, FAT16, or FAT32 is entirely dependant upon the partition size.

The MSDOS (7.x, 6.x, 5.x, etc) format command will format FAT partitions only.


Win 2000/XP uses DiskManager to create partitions.

The format utility with these MS O/S versions can format either FAT or NTFS.

"So in order:
Partitioning (FDISK)
Formatting
Install Windows."

There's an echo in here here here....

 

Ok, guys, do I get this right? Fdisk...that's a command to format the disk. Right? That's not another 'gram, right? Should I first save anything to disk to reinstall? Like my video and audio drivers?

Oh, and thanks to help from this board, I DID know to get W98SE.*wink* It's an OEM disk. But I don't know how to tell what kind of file format this thing uses.

Now, this thing only has a 28G HD on it, so I don't want to keep XP, I just want '98...I think it's all I've got room for. Oh, and this machine has 512K RAM, a 16M Mobility Radeon, and to be honest with you, I can't seem to figure out what the audio card might be, does SoundMAX Intergrated Digital Audio sound like it might be it? I'll lose all that if I reformat the HD, right? And remember, the machine I'm trying to work on has a fried modem, so I can't get it online to download anything, though I can get online with my desktop. (And I want to make sure I can STAY online, which is why I'm willing to do this to the laptop, but not my desktop!*LOL*) Now, if I download that bootdisk to my desktop, it's self extracting...but not self installing, right? I don't want to mess this thing up, it's out of warrenty as of January. And as I'm sure y'all can tell, I NEED that warrenty if I intend to mess with anything.*LOL*

Still think I can do this? Maybe some of us aren't cut out to be geeks.

And a quick aside...my DH has a bud that used to work in a puter store, and he ran my problem past him. He said don't mess with partitions, just install the game and run it in 98 mode. So I tried doing that one more time...'95 games won't even install, and the one '98 game I really wanted to get back to installed and played in XP, but then glitched and froze the machine. In '98 mode? Wouldn't even load.*wink* So I totally trust you guys, YOU know whatof you speak.*LOL*

 

I have to go right now but,,,,,,,

Windows 98 (FE & SE) are FAT32 File System O/S's. They will install and run on a lessor file structure (FAT16), just as Windows 2000 and XP will install and run on FAT32, even though it's design is NTFS.

Fdisk (we'll call it command 1) is the tool which seperates a hard disk into partitions. It can be set up as one large unit (partition), or several smaller units (partitions). Each partiton (x MB or x GB in size) on a hard disk will receive a drive letter (C, D, E, F, etc).

Format (we'll call it command 2) is the tool which prepares the above created partitions to receive data. It applies the File System Format (structure) to be used.

The above two operations have to be performed (in the above order) before an O/S (Operating System) can be loaded. The O/S is what runs the hardware making up your computer system. Once the O/S is in place (installed), ancillary/third party programs can be loaded/installed.

Drivers for hardware;
Download, install, and run Everest Home Edition on this machine. (Clean FreeWare) Once it's finished loading and running, click on Report, Report Wizard in the Menu Bar. Save all hardware related pages (the default) to a TEXT file in a location of your choice. (It will default the location to C:\Program Files\Lavalys\EVEREST Home Edition\Reports.) Copy this report file to a floppy and keep it safe for use in locating drivers once Win 98SE is loaded.

Once you have this information saved to a floppy, post the same info here so we can locate and download the drivers you may need for 98SE before you fdisk/format/install. (Windows will supply drivers for some common hardware items.)


My bootdisk from my link; Win98SE Boot Disk*

*The bootdisk image file is a self extracting file and has to be executed (run) from a running Windows machine in order to create the actual startup diskette on one of your floppy disks. (This image file produces the same bootdisk which 98SE creates.) This downloaded image file will format the floppy disk to ensure its integrity, write the files to the disk, then verify the file write, so it'll take a minute or three to create the bootdisk.

Ensure the floppy drive is set as the first boot device in the bios.

NOTE: When you boot a machine with this boot floppy, it creates a RAMDRIVE in system memory to contain DOS system tools/drivers. Thus it will move your "normal" CDROM device/drive letter "up" one level. (If your CDROM is normally E: it will be F: when booting with this bootdisk.)

The path to the found CDROM will be set with the bootfiles, so entering A:\>f:\setup is the same as entering A:\>setup at the A:\> prompt. There is no need to include the cdrom drive letter. The CDROM device letter will be assigned near the end of the floppy boot process, right after MSCDEX is loaded.

 

Thanks so much for all the help, everyone...I downloaded that file, Dan, but ran into a snag...seems I have no CD in house to burn the file to, in order to get it into the laptop, and it also seems that when Dell replaced everything inside my case, they neglected to replace my floppy drive (actually, they didn't want to GIVE me a floppy, but...*deep sigh* I insisted). So now I'm on hold until I can get into town and pick up some CD's.*LOL* But I WILL be back.*wink*

 

My bootdisk link is for a floppy. I'm unclear as to whether or not you have a working floppy in the troubled machine......

You can make the floppy and use it as a "model" to make a bootable CD if the burning software you use has this capability.

 

There is another way, use removable hard drive bays, and keep the two OSes totally independent. If one pukes the other HD can pick up the slack until the first hard drive is fixed.

 

Everyone, I can't thank you enough for all the help, the tips, the links...but it seemed to be beyond me, so I found a local geek who installed it for me for a low price. GOOD THING I DID!!! Seems that none of the drivers already ON the machine would work with '98...they were all EP drivers.*LOL* Plus, that legit disk I purchased online from the OEM Software Store was NOT an OEM disk...the only thing that worked on it was the key code.*LOL* DUH, I never knew that legit MS disk have just that printed on the inside back! MY disk said "CDR". THank goodness my local geek had a copy of '98 on hand.*wink*

And while I didn't realize it, no, Dan, the laptop in question DOESN'T have a floppy on it.*LOL* But it's now running '98, and I'm playing my old games...boy, some of 'em were well worth the money I ended up spending to convert that laptop's OS.

I'll end this by asking one more question and statement...the statement is that I don't "do" non-legit. I don't buy hot, I don't buy copies...but I got snagged by a site that I thought was legit. The question is...WHAT DO I DO ABOUT IT??? Do I go straight to MS? Or do I contact the web police?*LOL* Seriously, I'm VERY hot about this (hot as in angry), and would love to take someone to task for selling me something not as advertised, that doesn't work, AND that charged me $50. Any suggestions will be seriously considered, and again...thank you all so much for trying to turn this geek wannabe into a true geek.