Which Cpu To Choose?

I've been looking at Intel Core i5 processors for an upgrade.
Current prices and supply are in flux and I'm uncertain of which to choose, given the differences in price, performance, power consumption and TDP.

As of a couple of days ago, the difference in price between the lowest tier i5-8400 and the highest tier i5-8600K was only $40.
For some reason, I'm more concerned about the higher power draw of the 8600K rather than the higher TDP and heat dissipation.
I don't know if that even makes sense or if it's a reasonable concern.

I'm not planning on overclocking and not planning on getting a MoBo with a Z chipset.

How much noticeable difference in performance is there between these CPU's?
How much more power consumption will there be with the 8600K?
This https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator shows a 28W increase in load wattage for the 8600K over the 8400.
Is it worth going for the top dog?

I've already gotten a cooler. I've been looking at reviews for a long time and really had my eye on this one.
All of a sudden, they began to disappear from vendor inventories, so I jumped on the last one I could find.

Reeven Brontes - Impressive test results and good reviews:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mini-itx-cpu-air-cooler-round-up,4406-6.html
https://www.modders-inc.com/reeven-...reaching-new-heights-in-low-profile-design/4/
https://www.eteknix.com/reeven-brontes-rc-1001-low-profile-cpu-cooler-review/3/


Motherboard
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asrock-h370m-pro4-lga-1151-micro-atx-motherboard,5721-4.html
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813157816

Compatible RAM
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013H7QBTG/?tag=pcpapi-20&th=1

Opinions and suggestions?

 

See https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8600K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-8400/3941vs3939

You didn't state the purpose of this computer.

I would not worry too much about the power. Remember, the specs rate when the CPU is under maximum load. It is rare for any CPU to sit at or even near maximum load for extended periods of time.

As for heat, it is important to remember it is the case's responsibility to provide a sufficient flow of heat through the case. The CPU cooler need only toss the CPU's heat into that flow. So you need to make sure your case is providing plenty of good "front-to-back" (or bottom-to-top) flow through the case. And also, like power, maximum heat is mainly a problem when the CPU is being taxed.

Don't forget a decent TIM (thermal interface material).

Did you consult the QVL? Virtually every motherboard maker maintains RAM and CPU QVLs (qualified vendors lists) for each of their motherboards. Your QVLs are posted here. To ensure compatibility, you must use a listed CPU. But there are too many RAM makers and models for board makers to test them all. So you don't have to buy listed RAM, but you should buy RAM with the same specs as listed RAM to ensure compatibility.

I generally recommend you buy all the RAM you think you will ever need for the life of the computer during the initial build purchase. While 8GB is a nice chunk, I recommend 16GB these days. It will not give twice the performance as 8GB, but it will increase performance of the OS. And if the OS is performing its duties faster, over all computer performance improves too.

I don't see a graphics solution listed. Both of those CPUs and that board supports integrated graphics so you don't have to get a card now. Note having gobs of RAM can be even more significant with integrated graphics. Just another (very good) reason to go with 16GB now.

I also don't see any storage. SSD is the way to go these days. And since you [wisely!] have concerns with heat generation and power consumption too, going all SSD just makes sense as they generate less heat and consume less power, not to mention take up less space and weigh less. But more importantly, they significantly improve over all computer performance. If someone tries to tell you they only help with boot times, say "thanks" then ignore them. They clearly don't know what they are talking about.

Then, I don't see a power supply. Do NOT try to skim cents off the budget with a cheap power supply. You don't buy a new BMW then fill it up with generic fuel at the corner tobacco and bait shop. Get a quality supply from a reputable maker. I like EVGA and Seasonic Gold 80 PLUS supplies. Get at least Bronze but Gold would be nice. And for the record, that OuterVision PSU calculation is the only calculator to use and recommend. It is great! But for better future proofing, I recommend you bump up CPU Utilization to 100% and Computer Utilization to 16 hours per day. While all calculators pad the results, this one is the most conservative (because it lets you customize it more thoroughly). So increasing those options will pad the results just a little more to compensate for extra drives or a bigger graphics card 2 or 3 years down the road.

That said, if you do plan on adding a graphics card, understand a graphics card is typically one of, if not the most power hungry device in our computers (often way more than the CPU). So if a card is in the future, factor that in now when sizing up your PSU.

Last, understand for licensing purposes, a new motherboard constitutes a new computer. This typically requires the purchase of a new OS license as OEM licenses (the most common) are not transferable legally to new computers under any circumstances. Only full retail licenses can legally be moved to a new computer. That means you cannot move a drive from an old computer to a new computer/motherboard that has a previous OEM OS installation and expect to be legal. So if necessary, you need to budget for a new license too (or plan on using Linux). The good news there is if you purchase a retail W10 license, you will be able to use that over and over again in the future.

 

Thanks, Digerati. You answered my questions and addressed my concerns about the CPU power and heat.

My case is a Fractal Meshify C with three 120mm fans. One front active intake running at about 2300 rpm - remarkably quiet and lots of air flow. One rear exhaust at about 950 rpm.

Regardless of what I do with fans and ventilation, nothing affects the CPU temps. It never runs hot, but I've never gotten it any lower than 32 to 33 C at idle. Only room temperature seems to have any effect. I used the stock Intel cooler with the pre-applied thermal strips. Cleaning and replacing that with good thermal paste might yield better results but I have no verified evidence of that.

Yes, I did. Both are compatible - the RAM is listed.

I've not had any trouble with insufficient RAM, with Windows or Linux. Currently running (on Mint) a web browser with 180+ tabs, a text editor and System Monitor with 2.2 GiB in use (30% of 7.5). The board has 4 DIMM slots, so adding another 8GB later is available.

No graphics card needed, as per our previous discussion. Upgrade For Onboard Graphics
Power supply is an EVGA G3 550W 80-plus gold.
Currently, 2 SSDs (multi-boot), one for Windows and one for Linux, and a 550GB Caviar black hard drive.


Dealing with the Microsoft license is now the main hurdle.
I installed Win-7 Home 64-bit OEM which was upgraded to Win-10; definitely not transferable.

I was planning to move the current MoBo, CPU, RAM, system SSD and probably the H.D. back into the previous case.

Is there a viable, cost effective way to run Windows on the original equipment, and access that with KVM switching and/or networking with the new computer?
I have never networked two computers. Also, I don't have enough space to setup a second monitor, keyboard and mouse.

Most of the KVM solutions I've seen use VGA video connections. I use and definitely prefer DVI.
The few that I found that have DVI connections are more expensive.
That plus a new hard drive with the upgrade for backups and downloads would be very close to the cost of a new Windows 10 retail license.

I'm using Linux Mint 19 about 95% of the time but the multi boot setup is very convenient and works very well.
So, I'm not sure which would be the best route to follow.

It looks like this is mostly an issue of cost. Installing the hardware upgrade and plugging in a new Windows license would be the easiest and most convenient.
It just seems stupid to spend $140 plus for an O.S. that I don't use that much anymore.

What would your preference be?
Thanks!

Happy Thanksgiving

 

Nothing wrong with 33°C at idle. Of course under load is what really matters. You might get a few extra degrees with a fresh application of a quality TIM, but I don't recommend trying it. For one, your temps are already well below any concerns. The problem is, while removing and replacing the cooler, cleaning the mating surfaces and applying a proper new layer of TIM is a fairly easy and straightforward task, there is always the potential of damaging the CPU through mishandling or ESD, or improperly re-mounting the cooler, or zapping the motherboard or other nearby ESD sensitive device. It is just not worth it when your temps are already good.

I never suggested 8GB was "insufficient". In fact, I specifically said it was a "nice chunk". I am just saying 16GB is nicer.

Yes, you have the option of upgrading later, but that in itself is not always that simple. In 2 or 3 years, a lot can happen with RAM. New RAM technologies can emerge, pushing current RAM types out - thus raising prices. Finding compatible RAM may be more of a challenge. It is not uncommon for users to have to discard their old RAM just to find 4 compatible sticks when upgrading. So it often costs more to upgrade later than it does to buy more initially.

If you use a KVM switch, you are simply switching your "K"eyboard, "M"ouse and "M"onitor over to your old computer. You are not using the new computer then. And that's perfectly legal.

Then just build your new machine as a Linux box and keep your old as a Windows machine. I like W10 so my preference would be to suck it up and buy the license and be legal and done with it. But since you use Linux almost exclusively, it makes sense for you to just go that way.

 

Yep.

• I bought that power supply for the upgrade, not knowing which components I'd get.
• Got a 30% discount with free shipping!
• It was the runt of the litter - the lowest power unit of that series.
• Excellent reviews and a 7 year warranty
• No one can fault me for going cheap on the PSU.

I've never investigated Wine. It has been said (I have read) that running Windows programs within Linux introduces security vulnerabilities.
Pursuant to that claim, I followed the link to Common Myths about Wine.
https://wiki.winehq.org/Debunking_Wine_Myths
That page is empty. :LOL

The programs I miss the most with Linux are Macrium Reflect, Syncback Free, PSPad and Pot Player.
I'm using Sublime Text and doing manual backups with Double Commander.
There are a number of software packages listed for "wine" in the Mint software manager, including Playonlinux and Winetricks.

Would it be better to install Wine using the "package" method described here?:
https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_User's_Guide#Getting_Wine

==================

Thanks for the reassurance and tips.
The UEFI always shows higher idle temperature than every monitoring app I've ever used, both in Windows and Linux.
While in the UEFI, the temp may initially show as low as 29C from a cold boot, but slowly rises and eventually gets to about 40C.

Would there be advantages to more RAM if typical usage is under 50%?

I'm thinking I might do that and even do without the KVM at first to keep the initial costs to a minimum.
I will have to add a bootloader to the second SSD because that is on the Windows drive.

I may also get a new backup drive, which would be either a 500GB SSD or a 1TB hard drive, since they are similarly priced.

==================
Thanks for the responses!

 

Click Nastaveni > Programu and select English.

 

Typical is not the same as maximum. But also, Windows loves having lots of RAM to play around in even if it will work fine in less. And operating systems use "virtual" memory which is your system RAM plus the page file. The more system RAM you have the less often the OS will have to stuff higher priority data into the page file which is located on the slow (even if SSD) drive.

Plus, do you really know what your RAM needs will be in 2 years?

 

I tried VLC Player again. Same frustrations as before. Can not get the video to use the full screen area. Web searches found others with the same question/problem, but no solution.
Also, there is no keyboard shortcut that I could find for setting/unsetting/changing A-B Repeat.
All of those functions are done very easily with Pot Player.

I was able to install Wine 3.2 (Staging) with MX Linux 17.1 through the Package Installer.
What are you supposed to do with an installer .EXE?
I got the .ZIP portable of PSPad, but the extraction process doesn't really create the folders - only a kind of prefix to the filenames.
============

That did not work with the portable in Linux. The language files have to be located in the Language folder, otherwise there are no language selections available in the program settings.
I created a \Language folder and put the English.ini file in that folder. It did then appear in that selection box, but when it was selected, that caused an Open error on the file.

Maybe I'll have better luck with Mint.

 

Use Lang for the language folder.
http://gogogadgetscott.info/pspad/

 

Finally got Wine 3.21 Staging installed in MX Linux and Mint.
The process went pretty smoothly in MX, but Mint was troublesome. It took several attempts with different methods.
Haven't yet got winecfg in the menu for Mint. Have to run it from Terminal. It was added automatically in MX.
PSPad installed in both distros. Got it configured properly and seems to work fairly well so far.

The program interface, including menu text, was pretty small.
Going to winecfg > Graphics tab and increasing the DPI to 120 made it much better.

Thanks, Philipp for getting me into this useful utility!
===========

Language is the proper folder name.
The extraction process added the folder name, including the slash, to the filename, instead of creating the folders.
That's what caused the Open File error.
Philipp's method of running unzip from Terminal works properly.

VLC fullscreen does work, but the image is still smaller than the screen dimmensions.
Adjusting the Crop setting helps, but even at the best setting, there is still a good bit of empty space around the image.
I've also fiddled with the Aspect Ratio, but it's still not as good as Potplayer.

Yes, it was.
I tried Playonlinux in MX briefly but I didn't like that and it seemed unnecessary.
I'm going to look at Winetricks and Fonts-wine.
I'd like to keep things as simple and uncluttered as possible - avoiding the bloat.

I can run Macrium Reflect from the flash drive, but would like some real Linux solutions.
Can you recommend some imaging or backup programs for Linux?

 

You are correct.

 

Yes, VLC behaves the same way in Windows.
With widescreen format DVD, it will go edge-to-edge horizontally, but it is never able to display anything in fullscreen as in 5x4 TV.
Potplayer loads with Wine, but displays an error message when attempting to load/play any video.
Not that big a deal. I'll just deal with it.

Thanks for the backup article. I've seen about half a dozen articles and reviews of Linux backup software.
They each have different picks for 'best' choice and options. Your link is the longest list I've seen.

Mint comes with Timeshift included since version 18.3.
It does not have all of the capabilities as Macrium Reflect, but seems to have what's needed to create and restore images of the Mint installation.
A live session of ver. 18.3 or later can be used for restore. Have not yet tested a full restore using Timeshift.
Timeshift is also available in the MX repositories.

I have BackInTime installed in Mint.
MX comes with Lucky Backup by default.
I'll just have to try a few.
=================

I have ordered the Intel i5-8600K and the ASRock H370M, but no RAM yet.

That motherboard supports up to DDR4-2600 and XMP 2.0.
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H370M Pro4/index.asp#Specification
These are the RAM types I'm considering:

HyperX FURY 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4 2666
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAD8U8H29075

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 2666
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820232175

The HyperX modules are listed on the motherboard memory QVL, but the G.Skill is not.

Will the G.Skill work if it has the same specs?
Will I be able to get the full 2600 RAM speed with that MoBo and CPU?