Windows not loading

Working on a friend's HP Pavilion m9550f....Running Vista...8gb ram 1T HD. They thought hard drive crashed and gave me HP Recovery disks. They wouldn't run. Attempted to boot into safe mode but it freezes up before fully loading. Booted with Hiren's 15.2 and ran Malwarebytes & Spybot. Did a couple of HD checks and they showed healthy. Backed up their data using Teracopy. Ran chkkdsk which found and corrected some errors. I attempted again to boot from their HD and it sticks at "Windows Loading" scrolling across the bottom. From Hiren's, I ran MBRCheck and it states: Found non-standard or infected MBR. I've been unsuccessfully attempting to figure out how to backup MBR before attempting to run MbrFix. Not sure if I need to do either? I'm a Hiren's newbie. Input is appreciated. Thank!

 

Geekwanttobe...

If you have access to any imaging programs in any of your boot disk tools, check to see if any of them back up the MBR, too. You may need access to Google to do this research. At any rate, I think they all do, or I am assuming so. You can use any image of the drive to restore the drive to its current state, so that is one way you can go.

I use Paragon Backup & Restore, and I actually have the option to back up only the MBR. You don't have as many options, since you cannot boot into Windows or Safe Mode and can only use the tools you have.

I do think that it's possible with some of the imagers to find and create the bootable restore disk for the program and then backup using it. You would have to research which make this possible. The Paragon disk is burned from within the Windows program, and I think it's hard to find, otherwise. Been a while since I looked into that.

To sum up this, if you use an imager to image the drive, you will need to make sure it includes the MBR and that you have access to the tool from the same program to restore the image should you need to do so.

 

Embarrassed to write this...but thought of this after I posted. I don't believe I had BIOS set to boot from CDRom before I tried Hiren's. Which means it wasn't set when I tried recovery disks. Should I try them again first before proceeding further?

As far as a saved image goes. I have mine from a HP laptop, windows 7.

Thanks!

 

Geekwanttobe...

If the image .iso you have on your PC contains the drivers for your PC, the image might not/likely won't work on your friend's machine. Also, the Windows key will not match what MS will be expecting, even if the drivers don't crash the OS image restore.

Yes, you can try setting the CD/DVD to first in the boot order to check that out. Windows has always caught that in my experience and given me the option to boot from the CD, but maybe it is the problem with the restore disks.

One other thing about imaging. I don't use Windows images, so I am not sure of the procedure for restoring for those. With other programs, you must burn a boot program to disk to restore. I think with Windows the restore option is in the list of f8 options (?), or is it in the recovery options from a Windows installation disk only (?). Anyway, I don't think your Windows image will work on your friend's PC.

Keep us updated on how it goes. If you need to image from one of the Hiren's tools, you will need to find out how to restore the image before creating it, so you can be sure the procedure will work. It would require an external hard drive or a PC connected to the affected PC for you to be able to store the image when it is created and then so that you could access the image for the restoration.

 

I attempted the Recovery disks again and rec'd this message:

This CD contains a backup of the software originally installed on an HP Pavilion PC and can only be used with an HP Pavilion PC. If you are receiving this message on an HP Pavilion, please call HP Support.

It is an HP Pavilion but it is out of warranty.

I used Hiren's Macrium Reflect to make a backup of the local drive of the HD. I believe I also used Hiren's Image for Windows & did the same. I don't know if I specifically got the OS or how to restore if I did.

Does it sound like it's an OS problem or could it be the HD?

Thanks!

 

Geekwanttobe

Maybe at one time there was a restore partition that has been deleted? This probably would have been a full destructive restore to the original factory settings if so. That would have meant all programs and files would be wiped out.

I think it's an OS problem (or MBR), since you tested the HD already, and it's ok. There are a pretty good many options still to go through, so you should be able to confirm what the problem is eventually.

I Need to get a couple of things straight:
1. The disks were for Vista. Is that what's installed on the PC? Want to make sure about this, and that it's not upgraded to 7, etc.
2. You might want to take a look at the option you now have for restoring the Windows image you created. If it's a Windows image, the extension will be WIM. Good idea to take a look at the file to make sure it is one of these. WIM files can be restored in Vista using f8 during boot. To restore a Windows image, you f8 during BIOS manufacturer's splash screen and enter Advanced boot options. Next choose "Repair your computer" and press enter. Here is part one:

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/194765-system-recovery-options.html

and part 2:

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/99718-restore-complete-computer.html
3. Does the Macrium Reflect version you used in Hiren's have restore capability? Just want to make sure you have everything you need to restore if necessary. Two options is better than one.

If you are settled and confident you can restore (the Windows image should contain the MBR for sure but I think both will), then I think you can focus on seeing if you can repair the MBR. First, I would run another chkdsk to see if that will clear up any other issues. Sometimes running chkdsk multiple times will resolve a problem. Then you can try the MbrFix program.

I think the next thing to look at if this doesn't work is MemTest86, which takes like 10-12 hours to run through the required times. Hopefully, MbrFix will fix the problem.

One other thing. You might want to Google to make sure that the Hiren's version of Macrium Reflect you used to image captures the MBR. I feel certain it must, but it might be a good idea to know more about what you are working with with the images.

 

It is possible, I suppose that the restore partitions have been deleted?

Thank you for your help... I sure hope so. This has been an interesting new challenge for me.

There is nothing on the recovery disks to indicate which OS they are for. They rec'd the disks with the computer. Vista is OS listed on case & I am pretty positive they never upgraded but have a text to them to confirm. The disks have on them: HP-5011-9913.

I'm not quite confident at this point. I'm not certain I made the image correctly as I do not see any files with WIM extension. Making an image is something brand new for me and I am looking forward to learning this skill. I am redoing the image right now. I will include some camera shots of what I clicked to help you determine if I did it correctly. I originally chose the "Intelligent Sector copy" copy in advanced options. This time I chose the "Make an exact copy...".

The Macrium Reflect on Hiren's is version 2.1 2952 and it lists a "Restore" option as one of the choices.

As stated above, I'm not that settled yet. :confused I can certainly run another chkdsk though.

I hope so!

Okay, I Googled a bit and saw, on MajorGeek site, that it says disk imaging includes Track 0 (MBR).... However, it looks like it's referring to a different version. Also, how do I know if there is a Track 0? I've Googled other sites and have not been able to confirm that the 2.1.2952 version does capture the MBR.

Sorry, to be so dense on this matter. I appreciate your help!

 

Geekwanttobe...

From the pictures, it looks like both of your images should be good, but I am not 100% certain. I don't see any reference to the MBR, but that's standard for a full drive backup, and the first picture clearly mentions that this is a backup for a partition/drive, which is what I would expect. Selecting the "Make an exact copy" option wasn't necessarily required, but it's, honestly, not an issue. The page file and the hibernation files are not needed during imaging, because they will be reformed over time after a restoration, anyway, even if they aren't included in the restoration. It's not a bad thing, though. Just not anything to worry about.

If you would like to know more about imaging, I encourage you to start a thread about it here. There are some very experienced backup experts around MGs. I will only say that you can image a full 35 GB installation in about 16 GB. Then you can actually run daily backups off of that that will be usually 5 or less GB each. These use a large portion of the original backup during the restoration. Imaging is actually very efficient, especially when combined with file/folder syncing program for keeping your files backed up on a real time interval.

Hopefully, someone will come along who has used the tool you are using and who can verify that the image is a bootable one. Meantime, I have a copy of Hiren's so I will take a look at this myself and see if I can determine.

 

OK...

Just checked, and I have the 15.2 of Hiren's. The Macrium Reflect program seems the same in the Hiren's I have, and I am almost 100% sure that image will contain the MBR. The Image for Windows program definitely shows how to add the MBR, and there is a restore option for that program, also. You will just have to hunt down the file wherever you chose to create it in order to restore using that image should that become necessary...

You may not need the images, anyway, but as long as you got the MBR in the Image for Windows program image, you should be safe to try the MBR fix...

 

The .WIM (Windows Image Management) extension is used for OS install DVDs. Macrium, EaseUS and AOMEI use their own extensions to identify the images they create but, will contain "img" in the extension.

Depending on the amount of space you have available for storing backup images of your drive(s) [I make backup images of three system drives (XP, Vista and 8.1 that I run on one computer)] it may be better to use high compression, smart sector copy and VSS. I noticed you cloned (made an exact copy of) your drive which wouldn't leave much room for anything else especially if you do incremental or differential backups. Contrary to what AtlBo said about the System Volume Information and Hibernation folders, they are both saved with either imaging or cloning.

 

mdonah...

Thanks. I was going by the picture of the Macrium Reflect Hiren's tool Geekwanttobe posted. The sector copy choice I believe omits the page file and the hibernation file during the imaging process, but I could be wrong. Apologies if I got that wrong. Again, I was just looking at the tool menu in post 6.

I checked and that last picture is on the advanced menu that pops up when the advanced button is hit while creating the image parameters. I think that app leaves out the page file and hibernation file for normal image creation, again, unless I goofed on that. Also, not sure what version of Macrium that app is in Hiren's. It could be different than the normal app in some ways.

OK, I thought I had the .wim file correctly attributed to the Windows based images, but I see that is not the case. I haven't used the app, obviously. :-o I have a .wim file on this PC, and, after doing some reading, I thought that was the backup format of the Windows backup utility.

I use Paragon Backup & Restore, and the extension for those images is .pbf or .pfi. :confused

 

My exact clone attempt in MR was a total bust. It took hours and hours only to end up with an error message that said one of the drives was either missing or corrupted. There was nothing saved on the external.

I started over again with Image for Windows program, choosing the Backup [Full] option. I am attaching the pictures of what my options were and what I chose. I again was met with an error msg (The backup completed with 298996124 bad sector(s) encountered). But, this time I ended up with two backup options to view. The HP image has been saved. The Factory Image gives the msg: Unable to mount the image. Common reasons: dirty file system, incorrect partition file system identifier, unsupported file system, or an error occurred. Hopefully the HP image contains what I need.

I apologize that this is so confusing to me and that it's taking me so long. My experience with backups only consists of using the Windows system and clicking and backing up my laptop onto an external. I've never had to restore an image and I do not understand nearly enough how it all works.

The attached pictures are: Drive options to from which to choose. Images for Windows drives to choose to backup. The drives I chose. The partition to view. The HP partition viewed.

Again, thanks so much for all the help.

 

Update. I have repeatedly failed at using the MRB Utility to save the MBR file to a junk drive... until a moment ago. It says: The MBR was successfully saved to D:\MyMBR.dat. Don't know if that makes any difference to what I'm attempting to do.

Thanks

 

Geekwanttobe...

OK. Just ran a backup and restore on this W7 PC using the Image for Windows, and it worked fine. I don't have a restore partition as you do on that PC, however.

What I am seeing is that your I (HP partition) drive is the main drive for that PC. The C drive is the factory restoration partition. You will be booting into the I partition, once the boot problem has been addressed.

You won't need the backup of the MBR, as long as your backup is intact, which it seems to be. All the choices look correct to me for your Image for Windows backup, so that should be OK.

Not sure why the cloning process failed. That has me stumped, and the other thing is the atrocious number of sector errors listed. That appears to be basically every sector on the drive.

The chkdsk and hard drive scan seem to indicate that the drive is fine, so I am sort of stumped as to what could be causing the problem you are having restoring the images. As I mentioned, in Hiren's 15.2, using the Image for Windows app, I was able to backup and restore with no problem.

Kind of stuck at them moment as to what direction you should go. If you had a Vista retail version installation disk (not to be confused with the restore disks), you could attempt a Windows repair installation. Somehow I feel that this might be your best option at this juncture. Do you know which version of Vista (and 32 or 64 bit) is on the PC? I think you might be able to check the BIOS to see this. Press F10 repeatedly during the HP initial boot screen to get you into BIOS settings. Then see if you can find the Vista version and post it here. I may be able to find a way to download the correct version of Vista for that PC...not sure.

 

Geekwanttobe...

Started thinking about your issue with Image for Windows, and I wonder if the program is not configured to backup 2 partitions. That's the only thing I can think of at the present time. For now, maybe you could try restoring the HP partition that you were able to back up to an empty disk and then see if it is intact. Ideally, you could connect it to the PC and attempting to boot to the disk. Of course, this won't fix the OS problem, so it will probably still crash on boot, but at least you can see if you have that partition backed up. This should be the one with the OS and all of the files.

One other thing you could try is to see if the Image for Windows program will back up the C:\ drive by itself. If you select this drive only for a backup, and it works, then likely the program does not give the ability to back up 2 partitions on a single drive in one backup. Maybe this is a limitation of the program being a free version of a pay program.

If all of this works, you could restore the images for C:\ and I:\ in separate operations if restoration becomes required.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if it is a drive problem. After this msg I decided to run chkdsk again. My options to scan were: D - Ram Drive. C - Factory Image. H - HP. I - HBCD 15.2. X - Mini XP

I ran H - HP and at the end I rec'd the msg: Unable to read the Usn Journal $J data system. I cannot recall which two of the Hiren's HD testing tools I used that gave a healthy report. I am currently running HD Tune 2.55 and will post the details when it finishes.

I couldn't find the info in BIOS anywhere. I Googled the model # and both HP and Amazon sell it with Vista Home Premium 64 bit. In the files it lists both Program Files & Program Files (86) - isn't this also an indication that it is 64 bit?

I will give these a try.

 

After reading your response I again began to question the drive. I ran chkdsk again. Was given the options of scanning: D - Ram Drive. C - Factory Image. H - HP. I - HBCD 15.2 and X - Mini XP. I began with H - HP. I rec'd the msg: Unable to read the Usn Journal $J data stream. Then C disappeared as an option to scan. I restarted and it still didn't show back up and neither did H. I completely shut down and they returned.

I cannot recall which two of the Hiren's HD scans I previously used that resulted in the word - Healthy. I Googled for a good one to use and just completed a quick scan using HD Tune 2.55. This resulted in almost half of the drive/s being bad, I believe (pic attached).

I was unable to find this info anywhere in the BIOS settings. However, I Googled the model and both HP & Amazon sell it with Vista Home Premium 64 bit. Also, in the files there is both a Program Files & Program Files (86) - doesn't this also indicate that it's 64bit?

Thank you.

 

Sorry, forgot to include the picture.

 

Geekwanttobe...

I think I see where this is going. Looks to me like the rocker arm on the hard drive is not extending to read one half of the disk. I guess that would explain the errors you have been getting. Hopefully, all of the data you retrieved early on is all complete, because I think that PC will be needing a new hard drive.

OK, here is the best I have come up with for downloading a Vista .iso for burning a Vista installation disk. I haven't used this download, so I don't know how trustworthy this source is, but, since you are stuck, I thought I would present to you the option. The installer seems the right size, and I have referred others to this site for XP downloads with no complaints to date:

http://getintopc.com/softwares/oper...ista-home-premium-download-iso-32-bit-64-bit/

When you download you will, as you mentioned, need the 64 bit version, but you will also need the PC's installation key. If the MS key sticker isn't on the side of the PC, not sure what you would do, so hopefully it is there.

 

Would this explains why the drive keeps disappearing? After that last scan I tried another and again the drives had disappeared.

Thank you for this. I haven't seen a MS key sticker but may not be looking for the correct thing?

Would this model HP m9550F be worth investing in new drive? I know it went out of warranty in 2010 (according to HP personnel). Would it depend on whether I could reinstall their current OS?

Thanks!

 

It might. Now that you mention it, it would be a good idea to unplug the PC from the wall and then unplug hard drive power connector and then reconnect it. Make sure you don't touch the motherboard, because it can cause problems. I doubt this will resolve the problem, but I guess it's worth a try if you think you have the simple knowledge required.

I would say 100% for sure with this PC replace the HD. This was a great PC for its time. The Passmark benchmark for the processor is over 3100, and I have a 1st gen i3 that only benches at around 2600. The PC also came with 8 GB of RAM, which was very unusual for a new PC of that time.

It does make a difference obviously if you have to buy a key for the OS for the PC. Irregardless, it's a good enough PC to spend some money on.

If you can, I think this would be a good time to test one of your images on the spare drive. If you actually did get the HP image, that would mean you could use the image to restore to a new drive. To test, just take out the current drive and then add the replacement. Boot from Hiren's and run the restore for the image of the HP drive you have and then boot to see what happens. With an installation disk in hand, there is a fairly good chance the OS installation can be saved.

By the way, if you can get to the point where you can see the drive in Hiren's, you might be able to retrieve the product key from the PC. There are keyfinder programs in Hiren's. How to Geeks recommends ProduKey, which works on this PC and is in Hiren's.

If there is a sticker on the case, you won't need a key finder. The sticker should be on the side or maybe back, but it could be inside the PC. Just take a look around the case to see if you can see a MS sticker with a 25 letter code. That's the key.

 

I agree. I got a 500 GB drive for $40. The OEM Vista Product Key sticker should be somewhere on or in that computer case and Geekwanttobe shouldn't have to buy another one. The OS(es) that wouldn't have an OEM Product Key sticker now are 8/8.1/10 because computer manufacturers are embedding them in the UEFI. The only Microsoft sticker on those cases is a small one resembling the blue Windows splash screen you see on boot-up.

 

AtlBo, thank you so much for all your help.

I did try unplugging and I checked all the connections to be sure they were seated well. It's my (geekwanttobe) opinion that this drive is toast! I've tried it several times and it's no longer being recognized.

I relayed this information to them and they have decided to purchase a new HD and buy Windows 7 OS. Now I'm off to shop for the HD for them.

Would you enlighten me on OEM operating systems? This is something I should stay away from, is that correct? Walmart's online price is over $40 less than Amazon. Am I safe, based on previous posts, in purchasing the 64 bit version?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

Geekwanttobe...

Here are some links that will say it better than I could about OEM v retail:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...tail-and/4737adfe-8a76-e011-8dfc-68b599b31bf5

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/22055-63-what-difference-version-retail

With a good imaging routine, I don't see the downside of OEM. Anyway, the OS can also be reinstalled indefinitely on the one machine, as many times as required.

The PC owners will definitely require the 64 bit version of whichever version of Windows is purchased. 32 bit versions of all Windows products support only up to 4 GB of RAM memory. 16 bit versions of Windows 7 I believe support up to 128 GB of RAM. Since the PC has 8 GB of RAM, 64 bit is the right choice by far, no questions asked...

 

AtlBo,

Thank you, those links explained it very well.

Thanks for confirming the 64 bit.

Even though this drive wasn't fixed I've certainly learned a great deal through the experience. Thanks for your help and patience. :cool

 

No problem.

Glad to help out.

Tell the PC owner that's a cool PC. It's not the latest, but that kind of PC will always be very useful for sure and can still hold its own with some of the newer PCs. It even came stock with a 450w power supply, compared to 300 or 350 usually. Really unusual for a stock PC...:cool

 

Thanks, I'll relay that information as well.

 

-D