Windows won't start

Got a problem with my new computer. Had just finished building it, installed WinXP Home w/SP2 and transferred/loaded all my software and various programs from the old machine. Had downloaded and installed the latest updates for some of the programs. No problems, so far -- machine was humming along fine. Then I decided to run some Norton Utilities. As soon as I started "Speed Disk", the blue-screen-of-doom appeared with the announcement "windows has detected a problem and is shutting down". There was a lot more, but I didn't have time to read it because it turned off the computer. That's the last time I've seen Windows on that machine! No matter what I do, it refuses to go beyond the BIOS POST. After that, it's just a black screen. I've checked all connections. Tried booting from the XP CD, but it does nothing. I can detect the CD drive spinning but there's no activity light. Ditto the HDD. Tried another CD drive -- same thing. Tried memory swaps -- sameo, sameo. Can get into setup mode but can't get Safe Mode. Whole thing is giving me major headaches! Here's the scoop on the machine: Asus K8V with Athlon 64 3000, Seagate 120GB HDD (SATA), 2 512MB sticks of Crucial DDR (only 1 installed for now), Windows XP home SP2.
Can anyone out there give me some suggestions?
Thanks.

 

are the HDD's and CDROM's detected in the BIOS?

 

Sure are. BIOS looks normal. I reset to default, too.

 

It's a long shot, but I wonder if you've tried swapping out your RAM since you're only using one of the two sticks you have. Just because it's new stuff doesn'[t mean your RAM couldn't be defective or have become defective after a few days of use.

Good luck!

 

That was one of the first things I tried. No effect. Plan on removing the HDD today and taking it out for testing (I don't have a spare to swap). I enjoy the building of the thing, but getting it up and running is a royal pain in the butt!

 

Well, maybe I'm getting somewhere. If not in fixing the problem, at least in defining it. Perhaps Windows is simply extremely slow to come up. Decided to simply wait it out on the black screen (since I could hear the HD spinning). After 15 minutes, a broken white band appeared across the lower screen; rather like a bar code. After a couple more minutes, the XP start screen appeared, with it's running bars in the little box. After watching that for longer than I cared to, I hit restart. Black screen filled with white script; "we apologize for the inconvenience, -- Windows did not start successfully. A recent hardware or software change might have caused this. ----" etc., etc. It then gave me the choice of starting in Safe Mode, Last known good configuration, or normally. I chose Last Known Good configuration. Ten minutes pass, and then the white "bar-code" was added to the page of script. Couple minutes later, the script drops out and only the "bar-code" remains. Couple minutes after that, the Win XP start window comes back. At that point I had to power down and go run an errand. Could it be that if I were to wait long enough (say 4 or 5 hours!) Windows would actually start? And if so, what is causing this? As I mentioned in my original post, all was working beautifully until I tried to run Norton Speed Disk. I had also run AVAST and found no bugs. Any ideas will be eagerly entertained! Thanks one and all for any input.

 

I would wait.. it sounds like you might have bad sectors on the drive. If XP does boot up eventually, I'd run a chkdsk /f on it

 

Hi .. I agree with Kodo if you can get into safe mode boot.. and run chkdsk from there. also if you can boot to safe mode try a system restore after running chkdsk..

 

Which version of Speed Disk are you running? I presume it's a recent one that's compatible with NTFS file system?

Given that it sounds like you've installed a lot of software on the new 120 GB drive and perhaps copied a lot of data over also from your old system you should be aware that chkdsk can take a long time to run, especially if there are lots of problems on the drive. ["running CHKDSK can take anywhere from a few seconds to several days" -- quote from MS article linked to below]

Here's a link to an article in the MS knowledge base with info about using chkdsk and some switches you can run it with to reduce the amount of time it takes to run. But read the article carefully as there are caveats about the uses of the /C and /I switches: [most of the article is a detailed explanation of how chkdsk works...the info about the use of the /C and /I switches with WinXP is about 3/4 of the way down the page]

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314835

As long as you read and understand it might be useful to do a more restricted run of chkdsk first to see what it finds and then move on to running a complete check of the entire disk.

Another quote from the end of the MS knowledgebase article linked to above:

"Note however that running an abbreviated CHKDSK does not repair all of the corruption that might exist. You still need to run a full CHKDSK at some future time to guarantee that all recoverable data has in fact been recovered.

Note also that NTFS does not guarantee the integrity of user data after an instance of disk corruption, even if you immediately run a full CHKDSK operation. There might be files that CHKDSK cannot recover, and files that CHKDSK does recover might still be internally corrupted. It remains vitally important that you protect mission-critical data by performing periodic backups or by using some other robust method of data recovery."

Good luck!

 

Thanks, guys. In answer to Eezak; the Norton Speed Disk is from the 2002 Professional version of Norton Utilities. Don't know whether there's any problem with using it with NTFS (and, as fate would have it, that's how I'm setup). If such were the case, what would happen? Could that have precipitated this mess? I'll await your further input before starting it up and letting it do it's thing for however long! An interesting sidenote: While it was cooking yesterday in it's attempt to start, I noted that the CPU temp was about 5° cooler than it had been when everything was working normally. Thanks to all of you for your assistance. I'm getting the idea that building from scratch "ain't what it's cracked up to be".

 

Take a look in your Norton Manual or check online to see if your version of Speed Disk is NTFS compatible. I'm no expert on the matter but I'd think that attempting to use a defragger that wasn't designed specifically to work with NTFS might cause some serious problems like yours. That's not to say that it wouldn't also handle FAT and FAT32, but the question is was it also NTFS capable/compatible.

And I hope you haven't confused what I said above about the chkdsk command with running Speed Disk. chkdsk can take a long time to run on a HD with serious problems but it's a Windows command, nothing to do with Norton Speed Disk. The switches discussed in the MS article I linked to can be used to selectively to decrease the amount of time it takes for chkdsk to run, but you have to read the details and understand the limitations if you use the switches. You'll still likely need to run chkdsk full bore eventually which may take quite some time. But you could run it with some features turned off (selective use of the appropriate switches as discussed in the MS knowledgebase article) to see what it comes up with initially and maybe get a little better handle on exactly what's happening with your drive.

Good luck!

 

Oh yeah...forgot to ask if you have tried to boot up in safe mode as the other posters suggested? Or are you unable to get even that far now where that's an option to try. As Kodo and Toke said, if you are able to boot up in safe mode, run chkdsk from there and see what happens.

One other thought -- have you done anything that might have modified the MBR (Master Boot Record)? If you have a bootable floppy (preferably formatted for XP, but I think even a Win98 bootable floppy might work) you might try running fixmbr /mbr to clear out any junk from the master boot record and see if that helps. I don't think it's likely that Speed Disk would have cause some corruption of the MBR even if it wasn't an NTFS compatible version but maybe something else happened to the MBR?

Kodo and Toke...if you guys see this, did I get that command right for clearing out the MBR? fixmbr /mbr is that it?

 

Eezak,
Thanks for the further input. I'm attempting to boot into Safe Mode now. So far, the only result was a whole string of lines --- "multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows|system32\ntoskrnl.exe" This is then repeated with various endings, eg. hal.dll, KDCOM.dll, BootVid.dll, config\system, c_1252.nls, c_437.nls, I_intl.nls, You get the idea. This then becomes a whole page of similar lines, most of which have endings indicating drivers. It then reverts to the BIOS POST process where the whole thing starts all over (asking for boot method, i.e. Safe Mode, Last known - or Normally. Does any of this ring a bell?

 

One last thought (for today at least)...if you check and do find that your version of Speed Disk isn't NTFS compatible you might contact Gibson Research:

http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

They make a rather exotic hard drive data recovery tool called SpinRite. It's not cheap, but I think you could email them, describe your problem in detail, and ask if they think that Spinrite might be helpful in recovering your data from the drive and maybe even fixing it. Lots of info about Spinrite on the grc site and you can download the documentation for the program to look it over before you buy. But currently they still don't have the docs for the newest version of Spinrite, version 6, so the documentation currently available is for Spinrite 5. And it's a bit pricey -- $89 -- and not much point in buying it unless you can get a little more info about what's happened to your drive. Incompatible defragger? Corrupt Master Boot Record? But if you email Gibson Research (there's a tech email link on the website somewhere...I'd try the tech support page) and give them whatever info you have they may be able to tell you whether it's likely that Spinrite might be useful in recovering your data and putting things right with the drive.

OK...enough...I'll shut up for awhile! *L*

Good luck!

 

Thanks, pal!
One final note for today. I'm attempting to go to "last known good configuration". It's at the Windows start screen and trying to get up. Will let you know more tomorrow.
Thanks, again, eezak!

 

Well, I said I'd shut up for a bit but I see you've just responded to one of my recent posts on your thread so....

I'm far from being an expert on this stuff and I certainly can't say I can make much out of the info you posted. But I don't think you'd even be seeing any of that stuff....the boot disk/partition info, the list of drivers...if your MBR was corrupted.

Can you find out for certain if your version of Speed Disk is NTFS compatible? And, even if it is, have you checked the Norton website to see if there are any updates/patches for it? If it was a very early NTFS product it may have had a few glitches and in a defragger that could be disastrous I'd think.

Apparently you have access to the net with another machine so I'd really take the time to check out the version of Speed Disk you have. It could just be coincidence that your problems started immediately upon running Speed Disk but maybe not.

 

I guess you're doomed to keep getting more posts from me here! *L* One thing I should have asked much earlier -- can you put the drive in another machine as the slave drive? Perhaps your old computer if you still have it. If you can put it in another machine and connect it as a slave (and change the jumper on the drive to set it to slave) see if you can access the drive, see your files and data you want to recover. It may be that most of your stuff you want to be sure you don't lose is on the drive but you just can't boot from the drive because some of Windows key files have gotten corrupted -- whether caused by Speed Disk or the drive being defective or by something else.

Given that it's a newly built system I guess you may not have much to lose if you tried to do a fresh install of Windows -- letting the install routine repartition and reformat the drive. Then see what happens. But that's also assuming you still have your old system or at least the old hard drive with all your data that you can't replace and don't want to lose. It's a hassle, of course, to re-install Windows and all your software but that may be worth a shot if you still have your old hard drive so you can copy any pictures, documents and whatever else you accumulated on the old drive that you don't want to lose.

You mentioned that you "installed WinXP Home w/SP2 and transferred/loaded all my software" in your very first post. How exactly did you "transfer" your software other than reinstalling it? Did you use a utility for that purpose? The drive tools that came with the new hard drive or what? Not sure that info will be helpful but I'm grasping at straws.

And do check your version of Speed Disk to find out for certain if it's NTFS compatible. I'd think a 2002 version would be but you need to find out for sure. If it's not NTFS compatible that knowledge may be crucial in figuring out the best way to attempt to recover your drive.

OK...I'm done for now....no, really, I am!

Good luck!

 

Thanks, Eezak!
More info for you. Last Known good configuration didn't work. In answer to your questions: Yes, my version of Norton System Works 2002 is NTFS compatible; no, I can't put the HD in my other machine as slave because my other machine never heard of SATA. I've considered taking it to the shop and having it checked out, tho. Yes, I'd thought about reinstalling XP. Didn't know whether I'd be able to, though, since it didn't appear that the CD was being read when I attempted to boot from CD. Transferring everything again would be a hassle, but it's only been a week since I did it the first time so no big deal. (Ha!) I used Intellimover and it's still on the old machine. Only real hassle is downloading all the updates again. Thanks for all your help. I don't mind all the posts at all. If someone else learns from my adventures, we'll count it as a plus!

 

Wondering if there's one cause at the root of what seem to be two different problems? Your SATA hard drive not booting and your CD drive not working properly. Wonder if you've tried plugging your CD drive into the other IDE controller on your motherboard to see if that'll work? Could be you've got two different and unrelated problems. Not likely, but it surely could happen, even with a newly built system.

Regarding your SATA drive. If you still have your old system with a bootable drive in it and a free PCI slot you can buy a SATA controller for, I believe, about $30. Tiger Direct sells one for that price I know because I bought one about a month ago. I forget the brandname on the box (and on Tiger Direct's site), but inside it said Koutech Industries (some other company name was on the box though). But the controller chips and drivers were by Silicon Image and it installed and worked fine. Like many controllers it's also includes some RAID features (RAID 0 and 1) but you just ignore those if you don't want or need them. Should be cheaper than taking the SATA drive to a shop (but take a few days of waiting after you order the controller) to order a PCI slot SATA controller. Then install it and your SATA drive in your old system, boot from the drive in your old machine and see if you can access the SATA drive and copy some stuff from it or run some diagnostics if your old system has XP on it also. Might be able to run chkdsk /f on it that way and begin to put things right.

But then while that would be cheaper there's no guarantee that you'd get things straightened out and you might wind up having to take the SATA drive to a repair shop anyway. Still, you'd have another piece of hardware, the PCI SATA controller card, and that should warm any geek's heart! *L*

Good luck!

Good luck!

 

Hey Sarge, forgot to mention one important thing in my previous post. The suggestion about putting a PCI slot SATA controller card in your old system so you can install the SATA drive in it (but not as the boot drive) and try to get a look at it is only worthwhile considering if you have XP installed on the old boot drive in that system. If you have Win98 on your old boot drive it I'm pretty sure that OS won't be able to read from the SATA drive because of it won't understand the NTFS file system. Not sure about WinME but I don't think it's NTFS file system either and if that's so it wouldn't be able to see the SATA drive and run diagnotics or chkdsk on it either.

 

And here's a link to the Tiger Direct page with some SATA PCI controller cards:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=1455

The card I ordered was the CP Tech one. I see the price has gone up to $35 since I ordered mine. With shipping and handling you're probably talking between $40 and $45 -- still cheaper than taking the SATA to a repair shop, but no guarantees. Still, as I said, you'd have another new piece of hardware! *L*

 

Eezak, you're a gem! I appreciate all the thought and time you're putting into this. As luck would have it, my current machine does, indeed, have Win 98SE on it I'm going to make another attempt at using the XP CD, this time to see if I can get it to the point where i can do a repair of Windows. If that's a no-go, I'll throw in the towell and take the HDD to the shop and bite the bullet. --- Stay tuned!

 

Just started reading this thread. Any software written in 2002 should correctly handle NTFS (if not XP itself) since NTFS goes back to NT 3.5 or NT 3.1 (1995).

The text lines you described are a normal safe mode boot - the crashing out to a re-run of POST is not normal! But it shows your MBR is OK. I would concentrate on Safe Mode for the moment as its much simpler.

It looks as if something further down the boot chain is pretty badly screwed up if you can't boot into safe mode. I assume you are forcing the boot options menu by hitting F8 repeatedly during POST. Is there the option to do safe mode with logging??. At least you would find out how far it is getting.

An alternative option I have used in this sort of circumstance is to boot the machine from CD with a bootable LinuxRescue CD http://www.sysresccd.org/ which can read NTFS. That allows you to see that the hardware ( memory / processor / PCI ) chain is basically sound, and to see what is on the hard-drive and that it can be read reliably. But if you have never played with Linux and got to a reasonably confident level then now is NOT the time to start!! [Find someone who has?]

My 2C worth - hope it helps.

 

> Is there the option to do safe mode with logging??. At least you would find out how far it is getting. <

Yes, as I remember, there is. Guess I'll give that a try. Haven't been working on it for a couple days due to other commitments. Will try to get something posted this morning, vis-a-vis your suggestion and also whether I can do a repair from the XP CD.

 

follow-up: Well, Safe Mode with logging was not offered as an option and I still couldn't boot with the CD to accomplish a repair, so I'm yanking the HDD and taking it to the shop to see what they can find. It's been spinning but it just didn't sound right to me. Maybe bad bearings. Would be unusual, tho, in a new drive.
The game continues after this break!

 

Well, game's over. HDD is bad. Guess who won't be buying any more Seagate HDs? Apparently there's a bad platter in the HD. Seemed to work fine when the tech hooked it up to his machine as slave. But there was a different story when he did a diagnostic on it. Didn't make it more than 5 minutes before giving him a red screen. This is the second Seagate HD I've had to return in the past 2 months! The other one was bad from the get-go. Lesson learned! It's Western Digital from now on. My sincere thanks to all of you for your assistance and input. I'd never have attempted this build without all of you.