10 Issues

Hello
My lap and desk top are almost alike yet the lap accepted the upgrade from 7 to 10 well; the desktop hangs randomly and has mouse issues. I even did a clean installation. I changed mice and all the remedial steps.
I have done all the diagnostics I can even running the Dell dx program -clean.
It seems the desktop does not have "guts" or drivers for 10. Dell does not support 10 drivers for this XPS 8300.

Question, if I reinstalled Win 7 that the desktop came with and then updated all the BIOS etc. because Dell recognizes it as 7 not 10, then upgraded or imaged to 10 would that help or is that not advisable.
Would it provide more support for 10, if 7 was beefed up?

I hate to regress. All was well with 7,8, and 8.1.

 

It may simply boil down to your Graphics Card. See here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3028846/problem-system-xps-8300-dell.html

 

I sure am glad to see you, David. Hope you are having a gr8t weekend.
No marks in device manger.

I am just using Defender and MBAM behind the Comcast(ISP's) router.

[irrelevant - My router is old b,g,n etc. so I unbriged and am using theirs. Phones pick up the AC account while the old pcs pick up the b.g.n etc. from their router.]

I will see about safe mode and if it runs with no problems I will do one 3rd party app at a time.

I run Kaspersky software updater, Secunia, Unlocker, Treesize, Wise uninstaller, Revo free, and Speccy.

The similar lap runs fine with the same but as you say they are fickle.

@mdonaah.
I will pull the NVidia to see how it goes with the onboard card, also.

Be back when this is done.

Thanks much,
Peter

 

Ummm comparing a laptop to a PC is like saying an orange is like a watermelon. In terms of personal computers, they could not get much different.

You might try W8.x drivers.

I would dump Kaspersky software updater, Secunia, Wise uninstaller, and Revo. You don't need them.

That's what I use on all my systems.

 

Could you explain W8.x drivers?
Do you mean got to Dell and enter the OS as 8 and see if it will recognize my system?

Regarding updaters you likely go to the program itself and update if necessary.?
Also, you are likely proficient enough to remove a program and maneuver the registry for orphans with Ccleaner or some other app like it?.

You would keep Treesize, Unlocker and Speccy, correct?

 

I kept Wise, Revo, Secunia and MBAM and did not have any trouble in safe mode. Once the mouse did not cooperate for about 2 seconds but all was fine besides that.
Would you remove the video card to further investigate? Once, although I hand an anti static band, my hand lightly touched the video card and there was a little zap.
I am going to add each of the other apps one by one to see if I can find the bad one.

 

>>I found a forum that says Speccy is not compatible with Windows 10. So far so good using Belarc Advisor instead.

 

Well that's a bunch of BS. It works just fine with W10. The only area where I have seen problems is with system voltages being way off. For example, Speccy is showing my +12V as +.048V. If that were true, this computer would not be working. But that problem is not limited to W10.

Yes, I mean try W8 drivers, if Dell has them.

As for updaters, most programs already have updaters, or allow you to check for updates. It is most important to keep Windows and our security apps updated. Windows Update already keeps Windows and Windows Defender current. And MBAM and other security apps regularly check for updates too. Those 3rd party updaters are just taking up system resources (RAM, CPU cycles, and disk space) needlessly.

Treesize, Unlocker and Speccy are "on-demand" applications. They don't run full time.

I use CCleaner's Registry cleaner frequently, but only for routine maintenance. Never to fix a broken Windows.

Did your card work fine after that zap? Wrist bands are great, but only if proper conditions exist. The band must be snug (not too tight, but not loose) on the bare wrist. The band must also be in good condition and clean. An old band full of sweat, grime and dead skin may not effectively keep static from building up in your body. The alligator clip must form a good "mechanical" connection to bare metal of the case interior to keep you and the computer chassis "at the same potential". When two conductors are at the same potential, voltage cannot "arc" from one to the other.

 

>>David I read some of the features of the latest cumulative update and one is app compatibility. My system has been stable so perhaps some of this affected me for the better. Anyway good to hear from you.
Peter

 

A laptop is a PC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer#Types

 

Hardly the point, is it? A Volkswagen and a 18-wheeler are both vehicles. But that does not mean they are "almost alike" as the OP claimed his laptop and PC are.

 

I think peterr meant they were set up similarly as far as software is concerned.

 

Thank y

>>Thank you, mdonah for your kind, thoughtful, gentlemanly reply. It is nice to discuss issues with nice people.
BTW, IObit's update driver updated 11 drivers and I am running perfectly. I have tested this machine from every aspect. I could not get them from Dell so had to resort to that not recomended tactic.
Thank you also, Eldon, for you civil dialogue.
Peter

 

I've had to use IOBit's Driver Booster on occasion myself. Glad everything's working. You're welcome.

 

I note it was Eldon I was replying to but to your point, even if you have the same software installed, notebooks and PCs are still entirely different. Virtually every single device driver Windows uses will be different because the hardware is so different. They have different motherboards and very likely will have very different CPUs, GPUs, RAM, drives, sound devices, network interfaces, I/O controllers, and more. And I note this topic was not about the installed programs.

Sorry, peterr, if you felt I was not being civil to you. But this is a "technical" forum. Technical discussions should be technically correct - if for no other reason than to ensure everyone is on the same page and using the correct terminology. That does not suggest uncivility.

 

Technically 'PC' is the abbreviation for 'Personal Computer' of which there are now several types:
Desktop, Laptop (both terms used correctly by Peterr), Notebook, Netbook, Tablet.
They are all personal computers.
Many of them, within the same 'type' have a wide variance in their hardware and software, and between each other. Any attempt to define them in any other way is a bit technically meaningless.
'PC' has merely become shorthand for a Desktop, but only in common word use. Nothing more.
The technical differences, where they exist, are what is inside them - not their size or shape.

 

While true, I note "PC" started out explicitly as a term for a desktop, the "IBM PC", specifically.

I agree PC has become a common use term, but it still has a specific meaning in technical circles and is used specifically to differentiate personal computers from one another. For example, a "desktop" computer generally means one where the case sits in a horizontal orientation while a "tower" is upright - though both are often called desktop even though towers often sit on the floor. Both are PCs but neither are notebooks.

The point I am emphasizing is notebooks are still very different from "PCs" - even though they perform many of the same tasks. A notebook is totally self-contained with an integrated keyboard, mouse/pointing device, speakers, and monitor. And a notebook can operate off its integrated battery. PCs have none of those built-in and never has an integrated battery.

How many times have we seen posters join a thread about a computer not booting by saying, "I have the exact same problem" only to find out it is totally different hardware, different version of Windows, and in fact his PSU is shot where the other guy had a bad RAM.

How many times have seen a poster say, "my CPU does not work" only to find out he was referring to the whole computer (the case)?

Yes, a tablet, notebook, AiO are personal computers - even a cell phone these days might be considered a personal computer. But that does not mean they almost alike.

So when discussing technical issues, proper terminology is important to ensure understanding, and applicable and timely advise without unnecessary delays for clarification or due to misunderstandings.

BTW, I put much of the blame for this on marketing people. They routinely make up their own catch phrases and buzz words that are 100% technically inaccurate. "Wireless router" is a perfect example. Technically, there is no such thing as a wireless router. A router is strictly a wired device that has just one input and one output and is used to connect or isolate two networks.

What is marketed as a wireless router is really three totally discrete network devices; a router, a 4-port Ethernet switch, and a WAP (wireless access point) that just happen to share a common circuit board, case and power supply. Three separate device, just in one box.

Again, I apologize if I seemed uncivil. But I don't apologize for attempting to ensure proper technical terminology.

 

Even before this, it also meant "plug compatible" in some mainframe environments.

 

The OP used the correct and most useful terminology when they asked for help in post #1

. The OP never introduced or used the term 'PC' That was you.

 

I don't understand the point of your persistence in this matter. I am NOT faulting peterr in any way so there is no need to defend him, or are you just being argumentative? Do you not think proper terminology matters in technical discussions?

But to your comment, I find it interesting how you decided to leave out the most important part, the focus of my entire point! And that is where he said his "lap and desktop are almost the same."

Not only are they not almost the same in terms of hardware, that comment provides no insight as to the software that might be installed. I note the notebook was successfully upgraded to W10, the desktop apparently was still at W7. Okay, both are versions of Windows so does that imply they are "almost the same?" No!

Are we to assume, as mdonah noted, and "think" he meant the software is "setup" the same? I won't make that assumption. Windows 10, for example, comes with Windows Defender enabled by default. W7 does not even run the antimalware version of Windows Defender. It only runs the completely different antispyware version of WD and must run MSE or some other antimalware for security. So because WD in W10 replaced MSE in W7, does that make them "almost the same"? No.

 

I'm glad you got it fixed peterr. It is sometimes necessary to use a Driver Update program and as long as a user creates a restore point first, then if the program's recommended updates for the issues giving problems work, then that's good.
I personally use Driver Talent as it's the only one I know that says don't update drivers for a function that currently works fine. It also has a facility, that it asks you to carry out, to do specific back ups of each driver so any problems can be resolved without a full system restore.
I think you are right that when two systems have broadly similar hardware specs it's strange they don't both update successfully, but as you see Dell not providing itself the later OS drivers is the nub of the problem. Given that the specs of the XPS 8300 are actually quite high it's annoying Dell can't even provide support for Win 8 let alone Win 10.
All the best

 

Curious??? I don't see any listed specs for the notebook, or how old it is. We don't even know which XPS 8300 he has. I note this XPS 8300 comes with an Intel i5 2300 2.8 GHz processor and 6GB of RAM, and this XPS 8300 comes with an i7 2600 3.4GHz processor and 16GB of RAM.

Does the notebook even have an Intel processor? If so, does it use the same chipset as the PC? Does it have AMD graphics too? Is the notebook even a Dell???

I note that Dell buys their motherboards from several OEM suppliers, including MSI, ASUS and Foxconn. And while Dell is notorious for using proprietary parts, all notebooks are particularly proprietary because there are no ATX Form Factor standards for notebooks, unfortunately.

I agree and wish hardware makers provided drivers forever too, but that is just not practical with legacy products. Driver development is expensive and they get $0 return on those investments. And in many cases, the older hardware just does not support the newest operating system so they can't develop new drivers even they wanted to.

This is not Microsoft's and often not even the hardware maker's fault. IT is industries within industries - many are totally independent. For example, USB, SATA, M.2, DDR4 and even AMD and Intel do their R&D on their own terms - with input from Dell and HP, ASUS, Gigabyte, but still on their own terms.

High specs do not ensure future proofing. The best insurance for future proofing is buying the latest technologies when you buy. But of course, you pay through the nose when you do that.

I note according the available BIOS versions for the XPS 8300, it would appear the computer came out in November 2011, so it was designed sometime before that for W7 and before. W8.1 came out in April 2014. Again, it is too bad Dell did not develop W8 or W10 drivers, but for all we know, the hardware does not support those more current operating systems. And since Dell (and HP, Acer, ASUS, etc.) buy many of their mounted components from other suppliers, that too may make it out of Dell's hands.

 

>>>Thank you, Max, for both the reference to Driver Talent and you kind note. I will keep that app in mind - that is a good feature in that it will not install a driver unless necessary. Also the backup is thrifty by not having to do a complete restore. I am going to see about it now.
Peter