All Electric Cars

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Earthling, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

    Not sure of your point Eldon,
    How does that relate to limiting the number of people being more effective than most conservation measures?
     
  2. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

    What do you propose?
     
    Earthling likes this.
  3. legalsuit

    legalsuit Legal Eagle

    Down Under (as I expect in many other countries) "Hybrid" types are popular as a manner of moving from fuel towards electric cars which appear to be good for fuel economy while proving to be cheaper to run...
     
    Eldon likes this.
  4. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Plug-in hybrids are the better short term alternative.
     
    DavidGP likes this.
  5. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

  6. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

    Education is the best avenue. Second is not subsidizing the problem.

    Cobalt, Lithium and whatever else will have to be worked out. But the situation is not as dire as some say. Li battery recycling is coming to the rescue. New battery technologies are in the pipe. But in the end all the problems pale compared to global warming.
     
  7. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    I agree and I know you have/had a Tesla, great cars and the new Tesla Model 3 brings a great looking car thats electric we actually would love driving ( sorry Nissan Leaf.... NO) range ok for city, as you say can charge overnight and not an issue, if my work has charging points (it does but not in the carpark I;m in but that could change if I went electric). I know that Norway or Holland are looking at charging via the road as you drive like you can some phones, that is a game changer, as is KERS from F1.

    I think its a turning point in electric as said my bugbear is the charge time, but I see we need to go this way, even Hydrogen, but electric self driving cars awesome!!!!
     
    DOA likes this.
  8. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    Really interesting discussion- hope I can still add interest to it.
    I was a fitter (mechanic that actually repaired, not just replaced things, in the 'old ' days)
    I did some personal designs on engines about 40 years go. I even drew designs, etc :but working for a living with a wife, and 7 youngsters to provide for, never went much further-I did, however , explain several of them, ,as I will here....
    A thought, or, two for all interested---
    Take a Mazda rotary engine, a little design change, and, then use compressed air., add two small air tanks along sills ,add a compressor...........I have noticed such an engine being used not too long ago--
    Make an engine on the line of a turbine (a series of fans ,centrifugal clutches locking as the larger ones spin up) Start up with a solar electric fan, and you will get a fair bit of power, but the rest is for you to work out -(solar electric can work off artificial light, and a dimmer switch for changes to luminosity..........
    Steam ?...... Using condenser radiators, and lithium batteries (or, better as the are born) -include an element like an electric kettle element - create the steam, recycle much of the steam, using the condensers, .....just enough to get you all thinking. I think............
    Engines are fairly easy to design, just need the industry to concentrate more on not using fossil fuels.
    Nowadays, the oil producing money grabbers are realising they have to put their money into alternatives, before it is too late.
    Employment - somebody still has to make them, and the rest of the vehicle- Governments will still find a way to get taxes off us.
    I trust this will get a little more discussion going.
     
  9. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    • Ariel to launch world-beating supercar with 1180bhp-The vehicle, codenamed the P40, will be capable of 0-100mph in just 3.8sec, and is scheduled for production in 2020.
    • Well, looks like UK might be in for a prototype pf their own- 3 companies combined with Ariel to make this one- looks like it will not be cheap, wow! , will it go.
    • http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/...?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=spartandhp#image=AAqy2hq_1|3
     

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    DOA likes this.
  10. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

    Designing engines is the easy part.
    Take fuel cell vehicles, totally seem like a good idea on the shallow thought. But Hydrogen is always made from natural gas because it's so much cheaper than electrolysis. Fuel cell cars will NOT help global warming because of the CO2 produced making the hydrogen. Or if you have nuclear power and use electrolysis to make the hydrogen you still have the hydrogen transportation and fueling nightmare. That gives you 10% of the efficiency of using the existing electrical network and charging a battery powered car.
    Compressed air motor - OK, what drives your compressor?
    Solar cars? Surface area of a car will give you 600W for about 4 hours of the day, call it 2400 W/H per day. Average full size car uses 300WH/ mi at freeway speeds. Actual solar powered cars have a 5-6KW or larger array at home (20 - 30 panels instead of the 2 on the car) and a battery to store electricity until the car needs it. In my case the electric company is my battery, I sell at wholesale and buy at retail but overall it works out.

    Modern thinking demands you figure out your power source before you design your engine.

    BTW, my Tesla does 0-60 mph in 2.3 as measured at our local drag strip. 10.4 best quarter mile.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  11. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    Hi DOA,
    A compressor can run off a gear train, or, even a belt- Think on lorry compressor for braking etc: This would only come into action, as the vehicle gained power/speed.
    No doubt the Tesla is a great tool, but we need alternatives, too- that is what I was intimating. Power source a compressed air tank, and a second one for recycled air , a switch that changes a valve as one is depleted.....
    The one I favoured all those years ago, was the one using a simple variable , perhaps halogen light,( I have seen a working model of such a basic setup) to assist the first turning of the turbine type motor, as I partially described, with compressed air increasing the turning power, and air vents from the front of the vehicle giving extra boost as the vehicle moved off, flaps sliding as necessary to increase/decrease airflow.....
    Anyway, my setup was years ago,, and I just looked these examples up, and I still feel it should be pursued- with air, and steam.
    http://www.fuellesspower.com/1air_engine.htm
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...3E123EF099620234535E3E123EF09962023&FORM=VIRE
    GOOD EXERCISE FOR THE OLD GREY CELLS,AT MY AGE.....
     
  12. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

  13. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics
     
    Eldon likes this.
  14. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    Now it gets interesting. Yes, there is so much to take in with dynamics, and friction was always the problem, when people were looking for perpetual motion.
    No doubt, as the full electric car system becomes cheap enough, then it will no doubt take over - Meanwhile, it would be great if alternatives are brought in, ....If a power outage from a massive storm happened.......
    I do like the thought of a Tesla, but someone would have to buy it for me........
     
    DavidGP likes this.
  15. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

    Reading between the lines here. I think baklogic is saying power a compressor off the regular engine, store the compressed air, use the air when extra power is needed. This allows a smaller, more efficient main engine. A very effective idea.
    Pneumatic has not been tried, probably because the weight and reliability of existing components.
    Electrics are common, hybrids and many race cars.
    Mechanical (flywheels) has been tried but while durable they added too much weight.

    But perhaps we are at the end of the design chain moving the "engine" to a remote location where it can be large and efficient and only a battery and motor in the car.
    Tesloop has 300K miles on their Tesla Taxi and its going strong. Not without repairs but you can look up the cost analysis to see how much they saved over comparable ICE cars.
     
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  16. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    There is the hydraulic hybrid to consider. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/420071/garbage-trucks-go-green/
     
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  17. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    As DOA has said, there are more conceptions regarding power alternatives, or, boosters- the braking power there is a good example.
    We need to work on it to combat any greenhouse effect -
     
    DavidGP likes this.
  18. Imandy Mann

    Imandy Mann MajorGeekolicious

    Seems some are working on upgrades to older classics now. I still wouldn't ever try to make an electric an everyday driver 'round here, but a weekend cruiser allowed to trickle charge for a week or 2 may be fun for a sunday outing. I bet more mods and kits become available down the road.(pun intended). Would probably be fun in that old '78 Camero!


    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/19/motorsport/electric-ferrari-308-intl-supercharged-spt/index.html
     
  19. Anon-469e6fb48c

    Anon-469e6fb48c Anonymized

    It may be faster in battery mode but.You will run out juice quickly the faster you drive them.
     
  20. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

    Generally the newer performance electrics will not run out of juice before you run out of driver's license points. :rolleyes:
    A bigger problem is heat for the stock electric cars on the track. On the street this is not a problem.
     
  21. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    Just saw an article saying that Germany now has a major road that allows for charging while driving.
     
  22. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    Interesting, but how does the electric/hybrid compare carbon footprint wise? They are burning some coal in the US to get those electrons flowing.
     
  23. Replicator

    Replicator MajorGeek

    Good point Fred, is the advent of electric vehicles simply going to change our reliance from one fossil fuel (oil) to another......coal?
    As they become mainstream, the respective powers-to-be are not ruling out an increase in coal production or nuclear power if renewable energy cannot be developed fast enough to cope!
    But thats an argument for another thread,
    Carry on :)
     
  24. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

  25. gman863

    gman863 MajorGeek

    While I would definitely consider a hybrid gasoline/electric as my next car, the chances of my choosing a plug-in only model like a Tesla are zero. I only own one car and, should the need arise, I see too many huge problems will all-electric.

    Other than the home charger you get with the car, there are very, very few places to charge it up in the US. At the huge shopping plaza where I work, there is ONE parking space out of about 5,000 total that has a charging station. In the Houston area even this is rare; most major retailers (Walmart, IKEA, Kroger, etc.) don't have any.

    So why is this an issue if you get 500 miles per charge and plug it in at home every night?
    • You want to take a road trip or vacation. Plan your trip based on where charging stations are available? Wait at least a few hours to "fill it up" with electricity? Wait even longer if the one or two chargers available are already in use? I think not.
    • The above, but an emergency. I've had to evacuate three times for impending major hurricanes. Think of the worst traffic from Hell you've ever driven in. If it wasn't in a major hurricane evacuation, multiply it to at least 200 miles one way in near gridlock. With the AC on in 90 degree weather there is no way the car will have enough reserve power to get you even one way.
    • After the hurricane (or ice storm, earthquake, etc.) power at your home may be off for days or weeks. In contrast, many gas stations have backup generators and are up and running in hours after the storm. Oh,and those cool Tesla solar shingles you had installed to get off the electrical grid? They're now scattered in a two block radius around your property.
     
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  26. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

    gman863, you and I live in different worlds.
    Texas is an exception to most of the US because they have a very strong dealer association and big oil controlling their laws. This slows progress, but things are changing.

    On one trip back east last year I went through Texas. Plenty of Superchargers and destination chargers. EV's are not for everyone because, like you say, you do have to take a few seconds during your travel to plan meals and rests with charging. Unlike a gas station, the charger is at the same place you would stop any way. Every hotel we stopped at had chargers, San Antonio Riverwalk had four chargers (less than most) and we stopped at restaurants with chargers. The Aquarium had chargers, 3 museums all had chargers, only the Meteor Crater exhibit in the middle of no where (Arizona) did not have a charger per se, but they did have an RV outlet we charged from. All the chargers were FREE and we never had to wait. The wait will no doubt change as more EVs are bought.
    Here's a partial list https://www.plugshare.com/
    Another for just Houston https://chargehub.com/en/countries/united-states/texas/houston.html?city_id=309
    Remember each of these is a partial list that is growing. The "fill er up" mindset hinders EV adoption because chargers are supposed to be convenient to your other stops.

    I totally agree with emergency escape, My '86 Ford F250 holds 40 gallons of diesel and is reliable as a hammer. It's an excellent backup, but not a daily driver.
     
  27. DOA

    DOA MG's Loki

  28. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    Interesting DOA. It seems obvious to me solar and hydro would be great ways to generate electricity. I would like to see more options for new and existing homes and businesses. Not so sure about gubment mandating it, but that seems to be how CA rolls.
     

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