Alternative Energy.

WIth the soaring cost of oil, you would think that local governments would get serious about alternative energy sources.

Where I live a Wind Tower is going in for the purpose of collecting wind data. The Town Board immediately put a resolution on the table considering a moritorium on wind towers. Of course, the company that is erecting the tower is considering this area as a future site for a wind farm.

This area of NY the economy is mostly tourist based. The main objection to a wind farm is that is will ruin the view of the sky line. Now bear in mind the township 15 miles away is considering approving not 1, but 2 wind farms; and their economy is very much tourist based.

Lets get real folks, most everybody is feeling the burden of high fuel prices. When it comes time to put their chips on the table, they fold.

We have to get serious about alternative energy, what are we waiting for, a complete collapse of the economy; because the middle class can no longer afford to go to work. It cost too much, to get there.

 

Electricity based energy can be made from many other things aside from Oil (I think Nuclear has to be seriously considered as a replacement here) but in terms of a fuel for cars there isn't as much on the table.

I personally think Hydrogen is the way to go, though it seems there isn't a very affordable way to store the power yet.

I think the real problem is that whilst petrol/gas is increasing in price, it hasn't gone to the point where people cannot afford it, so people continue to buy it. It probably will take the price going silly high before people look to alternatives.

 

One thing I saw recently a bbc program 'It isnt easy being green'was a private turbine you could fit on top of your house the cost is around £1500 'compared to solar I think is around £10 000' but that included all the cable,the ac regulator a 30 foot mast fitted at ground level which you may or may not be need on top of your house, alot of house in th uk are already that tall and whoever has ever done a roof repair will know even 30 feet up is much windier than street level,this runs 24 hours a day and would be perfect for the uk's windy rainy weather

It also wouldnt spoil and countryside,one thing I'm not so sure about is the noise generated from them, one might not be to bad but every roof in your neighbourhood?

Time will tell,I try and find a kit on the interweb and a spec sheet

 

I'm not an expert, but I believe the oil companies spend big money buying up the rights to other alternate power sources. Something gets invented, They buy and copywrite it and sit on it. There are so many ideas out there and have been for a long time but seem to just stay in pause mode. You can probably see where I'm going with this so I will leave it at that

 

.Here in Queensland, we have diesel fuel being made from used fish and chip oil (should go well in the UK ). The private manufacturer can't keep up with the demand. Eat more fish and chips so he can get more used oil. This is no leg pull. As long as the diesel is made to a government standard he can sell it, at a much reduced price. He was on the radio in the last few days stating that he even made $100 in tips, from his customers. Bazza

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heres few different sizes starting with the smallest

http://www.d400.co.uk/index.html

http://www.provenenergy.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=34

http://www.windsave.com/

http://www.windsave.com/WS1000.htm

But if your 'all man' like me you want one of these,although the price of it and strengthening of the house would out weigh any finacial gain and the local council would lock me up before letting me put up such a thing

argh! argh! argh! More power !

http://www.provenenergy.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=37

 

Houses aren't what cause most of the pollution, cars do, so that should be tackled first at the very least.

Ethanol, although renewable, consumes a lot of resources and energy to grow and harvest, so it's not that "green", nor is it that much cheaper (at least here).


Americans (and Aussies to a lesser extent) don't know what high fuel prices are.

Here, we pay about AUS$1.30 a litre, compared to what Americans pay, AUS$1.00.


As far as I know, the Brits pay over double that.

 

yup and its all fuel duty,we actually export petroleum and oil to america who then sell it cheaper than we ourselves can get it

 

If we start introducing private wind turbines and solar panels we can produce enough electricity not only for house but for the new generation of electric cars like the hydro cell,ATM although its using clean hyrdogen we still burn fossle fuels to break the bond between hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis a pretty inefficent process which is why a hydro cell car releases more co2 into the enviromnent than petroleum

 

You'd be in the dark if you used solar panels in the UK.

 

Funny you mentioned that...

I was watching a spot on the news the other day about this article pretty interesting...
if this is in the wrong spot please move... thanks.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/05/990527043210.htm

 

Gasoline is $3.05/gal regular unleaded here. That's just the tip of the iceberg. K-1 Kerosone is $2.89/gal, only because it is still capped. That'll jump by at least 80 cents/gal when the cap lifts. Fuel Oil is capped at $2.59/gal, that'll go up $1.00/gal when the cap is lifted. Agricultural/Residential fuels have a annual cap from 1 Nov to 31 May. So, when the cap is lifted at the end of the month the prices will increase sharply. It cost me $4000 in fuel oil to heat my home this winter.

The cost of a barrel of oil effects energy costs across the board. Fuel Oil is the primary fuel used. Not just to heat homes with, but to fuel ships and power plants also. Now not all power plants use feul oil, but many do. Electricy was 8.1 cents/kwH before winter, it's 14.5 cents/kwH now and going to increase by 35% next month.

As energy costs increase so will the cost of other goods and services. Manufacters, distributors, wholesalers and retailers are going to pass their increased costs on to the consumer.

If your poor the government foots the bill; if your rich, well doesn't really effect you. Now, if your part of the middle class; you feel it in a big way.

I don't know what the answer is, but I can say with certainty whatever the proposed solution is; someone isn't going to like it. We as a people have to get serious about alternative energy sources.

Solor panels on roofs of homes. Great way to heat water, hot water heaters consume vast amounts of energy, and account for a large portion on one's monthly energy costs.

Eliminate diesel fuel as a means to fuel vehicles. Diesel is an extremely dirty fuel, and diesel powered vehicles are the least regulated, as far as emission standards, vehicles on the road. Automoblies are the most heavily regulated vehicles. Emission standards are so strict on cars that they barely emit any measureable pollutants.

Ethanol is a great idea, but meets so much resistance from the Oil industry, no one seriously considers pushing forward legislation mandating increased production of Ethol Alcohol.

 

My God, $4 000 to heat your home?

I'd rather freeze! (Didn't know New York, or NNY was that cold)

 

Yeah, the furnace is on 8 months of the year. This winter was mild. It didn't get anywhere near as cold as it should have. February is normally the coldest month of the year with temperatures rarely getting above 0 Fahrenheit during the day, and with temperatures dipping to as low as -60 at night. January and March aren't much better.

 

So this global warming is all your fault Shadow!

 

I'm doing my part to keep the rest of the world nice and warm.

Seriously, I'd switch to wood if I could afford a wood furance of sufficient size to heat my entire home.

 

Don't you guys have natural gas or similar?

 

Don't know if you will find this interesting, it was something I was looking at when I was living in Cardiff.

A barrage across the Severn would generate 7% of the electricity used in the UK. Tidal power is just about the most reliable renewable source of power there is, and we have one of the worlds highest tidal ranges on our doorstep!

http://r-energy.co.uk/barrage.html

 

No natural gas in these parts, but I can get propane. Cleaner, but not much in cost savings.

 

One reason I want to point out about oil is the burning of petroleum and simmilar is needed to get rid of the bi product of the most important part of oil, manufacture ,I dont have any numbers on hand to confirm this so if anyone can be bothered googling go ahead ,everything we use is made of plastic,rubber,polymers,there are so many products that simply couldnt be here without oil,the plastic keyboard I'm using right now

If we wernt burning this much fuel we'd have a shortage of manufacturing construction material,this would kill the entire world ecomomy,no factories,no jobs, social collapse,when we do run out of oil what are people gonna do if ,what will we make even if we have electric cars and heating,most of the plastic products we have made are buried in land fills with no way to seperate and recycle them

 

If they get dear enough, people will figure out ways to mine the garbage dumps. Stuff CAN be separated out, it's just expensive to do it with current technology.

Every little bit helps, but for mass energy, nuclear is still my favorite. Far cheaper per kilowatt than any fossil fuel, virtually zero emissions, and dependable. I forget the entire list, but there are something like 7 European countries running totally on nuclear electricity, including Sweden IIRC, and nobody is screaming that Sweden is going to end up like Chernobyl. Modern designs are SAFE.

 

They maybe safe, but what do you do with the waste?

 

Going back to the original subject of wind propellers and wind farms we only have one here locally on a test program,
expensive to buy - not really was helped with gov grant.
service maintenance charge- well that's an expensive problem
the worst thing is not necessarily the spoiling of the landscape with this huge structure.
The noise it's deafening

 

After watching the British sugar alternative i would hope things go that way.
and I'm sure the gov in the UK as per usual will tax us to death like they do on everything else, at least its renewable

 

One day GT we'll agree In this instance I agree but energy would have to become incredibly cheap before we can waste it digging up landfills and sorting out usable material especially when there isnt an easy way like magnets and iron

The wind turbine can be noisy if its a poor design,the current smaller private wind turbines produce only max 2.5 DB at 25 feet the average height, which can produce anything between 0 and 1.5 kw depending on windspeed

larger wind turbines do produce noise but is only a problem if you live directly under them as the air compression is very low which limits the distance the sound wave can travel

 

Recycle it. everywhere except in the U.S. After recycling, what's left to throw away isn't all that bad. What do we do with the "waste" from oil, coal, and natural gas plants? We breathe it. And actuarial tables can and do calculate the number of cases of cancer and other ailments that WILL happen downwind from them.

 

To my understanding, it's enough to be radioactive and dangerous for at least hundreds of years.

"Recycle it" is easy to say, but recycle it into what, there is always waste left to deal with.


I'm not aware of any recycling that deals with the majority of the waste, or renders it harmless.

Not to mention the security concerns with the nutcases we have to put up with.

I'm not saying I'm against it, but it's not perfect or the best solution either.

 

The highly radioactive components are removed and made into new fuel rods called MOX. What's left is still dangerous, but much less so than the enriched rods we keep around rather than recycling. What's left after recycling isn't worth terrorists stealing. In the U.S., thanks to Jimmy Carter many years ago, we are forbidden to recycle and re-use the radioactives, and plan to bury them HOT, which is pretty stupid, since a lot of the highly radioactive components are still present when the power plants are done with them. Yes, you need a deep hole that's geologically stable, but it CAN be stored safely. Other countries have been recycling it for years.

http://www.chemcases.com/nuclear/nc-13.htm

 

I'm confused, the link you supplied doesn't state that.

It hardly mentions the process of recycling, only saying that France has done so for years.

Doesn't mean it's safe, or totally recycled.

If it was, you wouldn't have to bury so deep or for so long.

 

The hot rods we're planning on recycling contain high levels of plutonium 239, which has a half-life of over 29,000 years and will remain radioactive for eons. And would be EXTREMELY interesting for terrorists. What's left after recycling will be virtually inert after about 300 years. Still a long time, but VERY short in geological terms, and it starts out with MUCH lower radioactivity, and burns itself out MUCH more quickly.

We're planning on burying our (still stupidly HOT) rods at Yucca Mountain in Nevada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain

Yucca Mountain is part of the government owned Nevada Test Site, where over 900 nuclear weapons were detonated back in the bad old days when such testing was done; it's not a garden site visited by lots of people.

 

Cheers to Verdant. I wish them well.

There are quite a few technologies being worked on, some promising, some a long way from practical for a whole nation. Figure probably ~ 100 million homes just in the US, plus industry, and many heavy industries suck a LOT of power.

Long term, we should be tapping sunlight from orbit and microwaving it to receiving stations on earth. Outside the atmosphere, it's raining energy, constantly, and we don't have a bucket. But that's more in Star's line of work. and won't happen soon. And there are "threat" issues with it, as beaming that much power would make an excellent weapon.

 

Burning coal could also be made much cleaner, at least until other technologies come along, but there is so much coal, it's so cheap, and the companies have so much political power, there is no incentive.