Arizona Shooting

I hope we are all not forgetting that rather than blaming society and everyone else, that he is responsible for his own actions?

 

Different states have different laws that govern what is and is not ready public knowledge concerning the individual criminal records of their citizens. I know of no national data base that collects and/or allows the publication or access to documented law enforcement contact reports with citizens that did not result in an arrest.

I've seen many comment on the fact that the shooter had "multiple" contacts with law enforcement in his adult life, and lament that somehow they dropped the ball and let this guy go . . . but it appears most of these contacts did not result in any chargeable offense under statutes the officers in question were empowered to enforce.

It's unreasonable to expect a carpenter to pull a bent nail without giving him the tool to do it with; or at least the 20/20 second sight used to judge him that would tell him the random nail is bent enough to be pulled to begin with.

 

If any of you have never bought a gun, and are curious about what the federal requirements are, here is the form you fill out for normal firearms. www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf (Normal firearms would be rifles, shotguns, revolvers, semi auto weapons. Others require more federal forms and fees, I am not familiar with.)

This form must be filled out and a FFL dealer calls in the info, and the sale is approved or denied. The obvious exception for this is a face to face transfer of a gun between private citizens. If you buy a gun online, it must be shipped to a FFL dealer, and when it comes in, you have to pay the FFL a fee, fill out the Form 4473, and then you get your gun if approved. It is a felony to transfer between citizens via UPS or FedEx without the FFL.

Unless the Arizona shooter had been diagnosed with a mental disorder by a Doctor, he would be able to legally buy a gun. I believe some states add more restrictions to the federal requirements, and I am pretty sure a gun store can refuse to sell a gun if they think the customer is impaired. But, the guy in the local gun shop is most likely not a doctor of mental illness.

 

Not just for that reason. A blogger I have followed for years wrote this a few months ago. If you scroll down in the comments you'll see that when asked, he adds that the store clerk refused to sell a gun to the customer, and the store manager backed him up on that. Fortunately, I might add.

 

Exactly. This was my point about a data base for contact reports on an individual. Maybe John Doe wasn't arrested, but during the contact the officer was told by citizens they feared violence by him in some form. Not enough to arrest Doe, but handy knowledge if you are about to approve a handgun sale. Not sure about the legal aspects of such a data base; and at any rate it wouldn't prevent all such horrors like what we saw in AZ.

Sorry, Mimsy - I got so wrapped up in the law enforcement aspect I forgot the other part of your point. You are spot on - the issue of mental health care must addressed and improved in this country. That is one thing in the health care bill that is worthwhile and should be kept and expanded on. People have the right to freedom, mental illness or not . . . but that right sure won't keep them from freezing to death on the street.

 

Yeah, that is pretty bad. The people at the main gun store I go to know me, and I shoot at there indoor range, plus, my Grandfather taught me the basic safety rules years ago.

Plus, he called it a clip... It is a magazine! Clips is for loading rifles! :-D Guy pointing a gun like that around here would most likely get tackled by another customer.

I am impressed that this thread has not been closed.

 

Exactly. And that aside, the mental health issue is still overwhelmingly sad all around. I once tried to explain to the very young brother of a close friend what it meant when someone said that the older sister he adored (my friend) was "mentally ill", and after I've been groping for words and metaphors in what started to feel like forever this little boy gave me this very direct look and said, "So she's sick in the part of her that makes her who she is? That's really sad."

Out of the mouths of children...

This friend of mine was very important to me and still is, and that makes me a bit, ahem, unbiased, on mental health issues. :-o The worst thing about them is that people who genuinely need help refrain from reaching out for it because they are afraid of what their friends and family will think of them. It shouldn't be that way.

In my world, a clip is something you use to keep your hair out of your face while you wash away your makeup. LOL

 

Looks like Arizona has done some good legislative work.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110111/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_picketing

On other forums, I have seen the opinion that with soldiers, at least they were adults. But to protest at the funeral of a 9 year old child? Both are wrong in my opinion, but truly sick in this case.

It is a funeral for a 9 year old child. Murdered. OK, I am out for now. Prayers for the family.

 

Utter and complete agreement here.

She was a child, she hadn't had a chance to experience even a fraction of all the joys in life. Hat off to the Arizona Legislature. :major

 

Post number 1 sums it up as far as clips vs mags. The rest is civil, but is an old post.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=270656

 

Amen to that. Well done AZ! All 50 states should pass the same legislation.

 

The morning show of a major radio station here made a deal with Shirley Phelps, giving her airtime in exchange for keeping the WBC away from the little girl's funeral, and now they are receiving all sorts of criticism from people saying that they "gave into terrorist demands". Horsedroppings, if you ask me. :hammer

 

There are very few people I truly hate. Those well, individuals, who belong to the westboro baptist church that protest at funerals are in that small group. Lack of capitalization is intended.

 

I don't even know who those people are.
Judging from the comments here, I'm not missing much except maybe another stomach ache.

 

FYI

Yes, you're reading the URL right. No, they are not joking. Yes, we despise them.

 

Well, that station gets a thumbs up from me. Let Shirley babble all she wants on the radio.

Let the family bury their child in peace.

 

First time I used your link, my browser stopped the download and I got a big warning
with Red Stop signs that said "This site has a bad reputation".
Second try, I saw the page. Looks pretty bad.
Don't think I need to read any of that, but I kind of get the idea.
There was a young girl holding some hate signs.
So sad and terrible that they teach this crap to children and poison their hearts and minds. That Is hateful.