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Backup Multi Boot Pri Drive

Discussion in 'Software' started by Joe Ciaravino, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    I'm looking to buy a new backup drive; preferably an external HDD like the one that I have now that is not working.

    I have Ubuntu and Windows 7 on the primary drive, which is a 1 TB SSHD.

    I have no idea how to duplicate the primary drive.

    What can you recommend that I buy for hardware.

    What software program will "clone" the original Boot Partition as well as Ubuntu and Windows.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  2. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    The drive will need to be the same size or larger than the one you're going to clone. WD Blacks are the best.

    Since you're cloning both a Linux partition and a Windows partition I recommend MiniTool Partition Wizard run from the CD you'll burn. The file you'll download contains both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the ISO. Choose the appropriate architecture for your computer.
     
  3. AtlBo

    AtlBo Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Joe...wouldn't recommend a straight clone of your hard drive for backup. If your main drive becomes corrupt the clone will be too.

    I recently purchased a Western Digital By Book Mirror. This is two drives in one, one of which mimicks the other. Superb little unit, which will give you the ability to run image backups to one of the drives and then have a spare copy of the backups should that drive fail.

    Not bad considering the price tag for two drives 500 GB and that much peace of mind was $50 delivered. It is a new unit also.
     
  4. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    Thanks mdonah and atlbo. You have both been very helpful to me in the past.

    I made a mistake in post #1. The primary drive is a 210 Gb SSHD. The secondary drive (where all of My Documents, My Music, My Pictures, My Videos and My Downloads are stored.....................I moved all the files and mapped to the D drive and out of the Windows , C, drive) is a 1Tb HDD.

    I want a shadow copy of the primary drive, which would preserve the boot sector (which I had an extremely tough time setting up!!!!!) in case my computer quits for some reason. I could simply boot with the clone, and transfer the shadow to a new SSHD. Will a HDD work for this type of recovery setup? I could buy a 250-350 gb HDD for the clone drive.

    I want a straight backup for the "data" or D drive. Of the 1 Tb, I only use about 75 Gb after 4 years since I built this. So, I don't need a very large "D" backup. I use Sync Toy for this "straight" backup of "D".

    I'd like to buy a 500 Gb HDD and partition it in approximately half. Use "Min Tool Partition Wizard" to shadow my SSHD which contains both Linux and Windows.........................use Sync Toy (or something else which you experts might recommend) to back up the Data drive. Does this sound like a good plan? I hope so because I understand it.

    ATLBO: I'm not worried about cloning a corrupt drive. The whole purpose of the shadow is to have a good copy on hand IF AND WHEN the C drive becomes corrupted. I'm not sure that I understand your reasoning for the Western Digital By Book Mirror, but I certainly will look into it. Can I use IT to accomplish my "simple" plan underlined above?

    I have to do something soon because both of my backup drives are KAPUT.

    BTW: MDONAH, you are about 3 weeks older than me.:)
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  5. AtlBo

    AtlBo Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Joe...mdonah has you on the right track. Mistakenly thought you were just wanting to add a second drive that you could clone to.

    Not very efficient. What it would do is create a copy from the clone, so you would have three bootable drives. I don't think you want to go that far.

    I use the MyBook (dual mirroring drives) to store standard image backups that contain the boot sector and then can be restored bootable (similar to a clone in that way). There is a rescue media disk that I boot to if I have a problem and then from that disk I can restore any old backup from any attached drive. You can also use this system to backup normal files if you have lots of those. Data on the MyBook drives will be identical no matter what I put on them.

    The advantage of duplicating (RAID mirroring) the backup drive is that I am at far less risk of losing backups to mechanical failure of one of the drives. If one of them goes, I just add one to the unit, and the MyBook mirrors the contents of the remaining drive onto the new one. Long as I change a drive when necessary, nothing is lost.
     
  6. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    I have been looking at what I need to do. First, is a "shadow" copy another way of saying a "clone" copy. There is another term I seem to remember which is "ghost". Are these all the same thing?

    Next. Should I create a "bootable clone" or a "non-bootable clone"? Can I create either of these with Min Tool Partition Wizard?

    Finally, as I asked earlier, can I use a HDD to clone a SSHD to restore a desktop with a dead "C" drive, or do I need a SSHD to clone a SSHD?

    What I need, is a bootable HDD that I can connect to a USB port, change the boot order in the BIOS if my original SSHD dies, boot after replacing dead SSHD with a new one, and then copy the cloned HDD to the SSHD.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
    AtlBo likes this.
  7. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    You are reinventing the wheel Joe. The conventional way to do this would be to plug in an external drive and boot the computer to a Macrium Reflect bootable CD or something equivalent such as Aomei Backupper and image the SSHD to the external. In the event the SSHD failed or ever needed replacing for some other reason you would put a new one in and again plug in the external containing the image file, boot to the CD and restore the image, job done. OK, the restored image will be the system config as of the date the image was created so you would need to decide how frequently you need to update your image.

    According to this thread Macrium will backup a disk which contains both Windows and Ubuntu, though I can't personally confirm that as I would never choose to configure a system that way. Anyway, it's easily tested.
     
  8. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    An SSHD is a hybrid drive that contains both a smaller SSD AND a larger HDD. They're put out by Seagate and came about after Samsung sold it's HDD division to Seagate for $1.1 Billion. The SSD can be treated as a separate drive contained in the same housing as the HDD.

    I don't know which drive you've got your OSes installed to now.
     
  9. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    I've got a Seagate 1Tb SSHD and disk management sees it as a single drive, not surprising as there is only 8Gb SSD. I'm a bit doubtful about the description of the SSHD as 210GB as I can't find one less than 500GB and even the latest models seem only to have 32GB SSD memory. If disk management does see it as two separate drives then my suggested method would not work but I'm doubtful about that. Clarification needed.
     
  10. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    I agree about the clarification being needed.

    I came across 2 SSHDs on Amazon.com. Both had 120 GB SSDs and either a 500 GB HDD or a 1 TB HDD. On one of them, the description said the SSD hadn't been initialized. I was considering buying one or both but eventually chose the Samsung 850 EVO SSDs I have in my laptops now. But, this is off topic.
     
  11. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal


    I am sorry for the misrepresentation. It is a SSD (no moving parts, just a small solid state device). I read somewhere that a SSD uses something different in its boot(?) sector than a HDD, and that's why I want to know if I can use a HDD to clone a SSD. I am by no means an expert in this, and I realize that one small difference is enough to stop the whole process. My primary drive (210 gb SSD) has a 100 mb partition labeled "EFI, healthy" in Disc Management................this is what I am referring to. Don't know what it is and I didn't put it there.

    Untitle.jpg Untitle.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
    AtlBo likes this.
  12. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    You may be able to read your screenshot Joe but I can't, but as it's a single SSD you are trying to backup I ask you to read again my post #9. That is the way to backup your system, not your massively over-complicated and clumsy proposal.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  13. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Re-read Earthling's Post #7 (not #9). You've apparently got your two OSes (Windows and Linux) on that 210 GB SSD and everything else on the 1 TB drive (correct?).

    The SSD could be imaged rather than cloned and the image would take up much less space on the disk you're imaging to than cloning the drive would. You could image your SSD to an HDD and if you replace the SSD for some reason, you could restore the image you put on the HDD to the new SSD.

    As Earthling stated, Macrium Reflect will image a drive that has both Windows AND Linux on it. I'm pretty sure MiniTool will also (I'm not so sure about AOMEI Backupper).
     
  14. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    This is too complicated for me to wrap my head around. Too many questions still unanswered. I'll print this entire thread and study it thoroughly and then maybe I can figure out what I have to do. If I have any intelligent questions after I study, then I'll post them.

    Again, all I want is a backup for my SSD in case it ever dies. I want to be able to replace it with a new SSD if that happens and then have a way of duplicating its contents so that I can boot (I suppose, using a startup disk since I get the impression that it's not possible to boot from my backup drive). I intend to update the backup drive every few weeks (the content changes very little, if at all). I assume that I can use a HDD for the backup. I have a perfectly good Seagate Barracuda 500 gig unit which I can partition in half for SSD and HDD backups.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  15. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    ggggggggggg.JPG
    It tried uploading it but the website makes it too small to be readable. This is the best I can do......can't crop it anymore without losing what I want you to see.
    Try to zoom in "view"
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  16. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Sorry, Joe. Because of my bilateral cataracts, I can't read the screenshot even at full size. The black text on white background just washes out. Are all 6 partitions on the SSD (I can see that much)?
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  17. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    A little bigger.

    There are 5 partitions on the SSD.
    There is one partition on the HDD.



    [​IMG]
     
  18. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Interesting! Clearly Windows cannot see the Linux partitions at all, so Lord knows which partition Ubuntu is in. Hopefully it won't matter and the Macrium Reflect bootable CD will be able to see both it and Windows and be able to image the whole drive.

    You will probably have to install Macrium in Windows first in order to be able to create the bootable CD. Normally you would image a drive using the installed version but as Linux is invisible in Windows you will have to create the image by booting to the CD, as I said way back in #7.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  19. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    Ubuntu is in F G and H

    That 100 MB "EFI" partition is the one that concerns me. Apparently unique to an SSD, and not present on a HDD.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  20. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Just ensure Joe when you run the Macrium Reflect bootable CD that you are imaging the whole drive rather than selected partitions. That should produce the backup you would need should the SSD go down for any reason.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  21. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    I'll try it within the next week or so and post up results.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  22. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Please do, and good luck with it.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  23. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    AtlBo likes this.
  24. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    That's not right Joe. I've only recently - in the last month - used the free version to create an image of a HDD and restore it to a new SSD. No issues at all. Can you point me to the download site you used please?
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  25. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    I meant to add too that there is no time limit on images, and there is no 30 day trial on the free version. Either you have downloaded the wrong version or you have used a rogue site.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  26. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

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  27. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    I'm having trouble findi
    OK thanks!
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  28. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    Yes, the limits are on the trial version. I mistakenly thought the FREE version was a trial version, but I see that the trial version is for the FULL EDITION.............which I don't need.

    Thanks for the correction.

    I will download and use the FREE VERSION, which is as you describe.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  29. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    My backup HDD has a cracked/missing piece of the plastic socket that forms the 7 pin data section of its SATA plug. Can these be fixed or replaced? Seems a shame because the HDD is perfectly good, but the SATA DATA connection is loose and the slightest movement will interrupt data transfer.

    It appears that it's all part of the circuit board and I can't see any way to separate it. It's a Seagate ES 500gb HDD.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  30. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Move the drive to a USB HDD enclosure, they are cheap as chips.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  31. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    You folks are the greatest!!!
    I just bought
    3.5" USB 3.0 HDD Enclosure
    by J5 Create

    from flea bay.

    It got great reviews, and I have a USB 3.0 port in the front of my computer.
    According to what I've read, data transfer is (measured at) about 2x as fast as USB 2.0. That should come in handy!
    Case comes with 3' USB 3.0 cable (fat cable, with blue connectors), which I have never seen before, a power adapter and a stand for the enclosure.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  32. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

    FWIW.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0
     
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  33. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    The reports said "ten times on paper", but one, actually measured the time as 2x plus. We'll see. Ten times would be great, but I'll settle for 2x plus or anything between 2 and 10.
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  34. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    Thank you all!
    The HDD enclosure works great! Cheap and convenient too. Can't ask for more.
    I also figured out how to get the FREE copy of Macrium Reflect. Looks like I'm all set now.
    You people are the greatest. Thanks for being patient with me.

    Joe
     
    AtlBo likes this.
  35. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    Please look at post # 17

    I have FREE Reflect installed. What I need is to CLONE all of DISK O .
    I tried but can't get it to clone the entire SSD.
     
  36. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Joe,

    Try AOMEI Backupper. It's what I use for imaging AND cloning.
     
  37. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Joe,

    From your Post #17, there are 5 partitions on the SSD. This tells me the disk is initialized as GPT (an MBR initialized disk can only have 4 partitions).

    In order to be able to clone disk 0, the destination disk (the one you're cloning TO) must be initialized GPT as well, or it won't work. Re-initializing the destination disk can be done in Disk Management AFTER all volumes are deleted. The entire destination disk must be unallocated first, then you can right click the drive and choose to initialize it GPT.
     
  38. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    All right, I'll do that.
    I did manage to get Macrium to clone the entire disk 0. It responded when I checked off all 5 partitions (per post #17), and produced an output file. Of course, I have no way of knowing what's in that output file. Unless someone knows of a way that I can check the output file from Macrium Reflect, then I'm flying blind.
     
  39. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Open Reflect and select the Restore tab. Select your image file and at bottom right you will see Verify. It does sound as though your image is good and it isn't necessary to convert the drive to GPT first.
     
  40. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    OK Macrium verified disc O. It actually has 6 partitions, not 5. Reflect shows all 6 and all 6 were verified. Each partition in the clone shows to be the same size as in the original. I was able to browse the MBR and Windows partitions. The UBUNTU stuff shows up in the MBR partition as grub file, etc. Also, the MBR shows as "EFI".

    In any event, thanks for the help........I can now rest easy that the entire 6 partitions on drive O have been successfully cloned. Of course, because all of the Linux drives are not formatted for Windows, they cannot be read within Windows.
     
  41. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Now you have successfully cloned the drive you might want to get used to imaging selected partitions on a regular basis as your clone will soon become out of date.
     
  42. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    The only partition that will ever change over time will be the windows partition.
    Are you saying that in the event of a catastrophic failure of the SSD, that I should continually backup the windows partiotion seperately (I suppose that I can use Windows Backup) after the stable Macrium clone is installed.

    Eternally grateful.
     
  43. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    It's up to you but most of us here that backup our systems do so on a regular basis - monthly in my case and keeping just the last two. To do so you use imaging rather than cloning as imaging can back up just selected partitions rather than the entire disk. It means that after you have restored your clone to a new drive you can restore your latest system image to the system partition and Windows will be up to date. Top left of the Macrium interface is an option to image just the partitions required by Windows. It's quick and easy.
     
  44. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    Again..........great information. That's exactly what I was looking for!
     
  45. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

    I have tried to "image" the windows partition as my first backup using Marium as you and others have suggested, but have not been able to do it successfully.

    I get the following message: "The destination path is included in the image. Please select a different folder."
     
  46. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    You're including the location in which you saved your backup image in your backup. Check your backup list before you re-run MR and uncheck that location.
     
  47. Joe Ciaravino

    Joe Ciaravino Corporal

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