California and $5.99 gasoline

Sigh, they go to a town 35 miles North of Ventura and tell how the gas is "too high" and post those pictures. I did not get pictures, but did look around to add $50 to my tank on Friday morning. I found $4.59 at a station that was $4.69 by the day end. rolleyes

It only went from $4.15 to $4.69 in 3 days here.....

I did see the Chevron retailer now surcharges 15 cents for credit. Yet ANOTHER reason I never shop at the local Chevron stations*.

Regular 87 Octane $4.69 ----------- Credit $4.81

Plus 89 $4.69 ----------------------- Credit $4.91

Premium 92 $4.69 ------------------ Credit $5.01


*in some areas the Chevron retailers are lower than others.

 

Here in Belgium the gas price is regulated by the government that sets a maximum that can be charged.
We are currently paying on average $6.52 for a US gallon.

 

$1.50/l, (5.67/US gal) over here. Price goes up and down like a yo-yo. So much for govt. regulations rolleyes.

 

$1.33/L here about $5.32 US gallon.

 

I know, it's provincialism, but I listen to those of you who live in Europe and comment on gas and think: Yes, but how many countries can you drive through on one tank of gas?

 

...In the case of Australia, with a million square miles, and Perth 2,500 miles to the nearest capital city, not a lot, I assure you.rolleyes ~ I live in the largest state in the world, that makes Texas look tiny. The stupid thing is, we have oil and gas in abundance, but we sure as crap don't see any benefits.:mad

 

$3.99 - $4.04 on Long Island.

 

In Holland price per liter = 1.30108USD. 1 US gallon equals 3.79 liters.

Price = $7.15931 per US gallon. The most expensive in Europe as taxes (2/3rd) + + etc. are the highest.

My brother overseas says that driving 10 km. (6.213 miles) is far ......

Here in Ontario, $1.30 per liter.

 

Here in Tucson AZ, regular gas is $3.439 - $3.699 per gal.

 

3.38 right now in Texas.

 

The irony of it is that Diesel is more expensive and yet Diesel costs less to make...

Greedy oil companies. I look forward to the day we run out of fossil fuels and they no longer have control. May it be in my lifetime.

 

I didn't know you lived out here.

My condolences.

We save up points with Frys Food and get big discounts when we fill up.

 

Sen. Feinstein to FTC: Investigate Calif. gas prices

Feinstein wants federal probe of record California gas prices

From the video:
Demand for gasoline is way down, but prices have gone up substantially.
Gas sales in 2006 were 8.5 million gallons a day.
Gas sales in 2012 have been 4.9 million gallons a day.

 

Had a bit of a gas war in town today. Got down to 1.99 before they ran out.

 

$3.39 a gallon here. I blame W's dad, HW. :-D

 

CA pollution regs made diesel more expensive now due to the sulfur content.

:confused

 

What is the excuse in AZ where that is not the case? :mad

 

Ever wonder what the technology would be like if there was no greed? What is the last innovation to come out of Cuba? What does your average PC user want? Open Source free version of Linux, or Microsoft and Apple. Greed can be good.

:-D

"This winter, Texas ranchers may have to fight the cold of night, perhaps blizzards, to run down, feed and care for stray cattle. They make the personal sacrifice of caring for their animals to ensure that New Yorkers can enjoy beef. Last summer, Idaho potato farmers toiled in blazing sun, in dust and dirt, and maybe being bitten by insects to ensure that New Yorkers had potatoes to go with their beef.

Here’s my question: Do you think that Texas ranchers and Idaho potato farmers make these personal sacrifices because they love or care about the well-being of New Yorkers? The fact is whether they like New Yorkers or not, they make sure that New Yorkers are supplied with beef and potatoes every day of the week. Why? It’s because ranchers and farmers want more for themselves. In a free market system, in order for one to get more for himself, he must serve his fellow man. This is precisely what Adam Smith, the father of economics, meant when he said in his classic “An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations" (1776), “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." By the way, how much beef and potatoes do you think New Yorkers would enjoy if it all depended upon the politically correct notions of human love and kindness? Personally, I’d grieve for New Yorkers. Some have suggested that instead of greed, I use “enlightened self-interest.” That’s OK, but I prefer greed."

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/12/ILoveGreed

 

Many years ago I worked in the credit card department of the largest oil co. here. When there was a price hike, the CSR's would be given a script in advance in what to say when angry/upset customers would be calling and so many did. Glad I wasn't working on the phones. While greed maybe good, unbridled greed/avarice is not. Having a monopoly kills a free market.

 

"While greed maybe good, unbridled greed/avarice is not."

That is the tough part. You can't 'regulate' greed, or laziness... Either extreme is bad, but how can you have one without the other?

 

The problem is, the oil companies don't treat it like a free market. I have no doubt there is price fixing and other illegal activities going on, but because they control the country, they get away with it.

 

Co's and individuals can sure regulate themselves if they want to. Since the eighties there has been too much emphasis on "greed is good" and not enough about the common good, morality and good citizenry. Excesses galore!!

The same oil co. I worked for said in a personnel meeting in 1990 that their sole responsibility was to the shareholder. I had to bite my tongue.

I HATE the wording: HUMAN RESOURCES!! Makes me think of oil, trees, etc., anything that can be consumed. *Personnel Department* was way more friendly.

 

"The same oil co. I worked for said in a personnel meeting in 1990 that their sole responsibility was to the shareholder."

What other responsibility is there for a corporation?



"The problem is, the oil companies don't treat it like a free market. I have no doubt there is price fixing and other illegal activities going on, but because they control the country, they get away with it."

I agree. Not a perfect system. But going to the other extreme, socializing the oil industry would not work either. Think food shortages in Russia

"The equal land shares among the peasants gave rise to food shortages in the cities. Although grain had nearly returned to pre-war production levels, the large estates who had produced it for urban markets had been divided up.[2] Not interested in acquiring money to purchase overpriced goods, the peasants chose to eat their produce rather than sell it, so city dwellers only saw half the grain that had been available before the war.[2] Before the revolution, peasants controlled only 2,100,000 km² divided into 16 million holdings, producing 50% of the food grown in Russia and consuming 60% of total food production. After the revolution, the peasants controlled 3,140,000 km² divided into 25 million holdings, producing 85% of the food, but consuming 80% of what they grew (meaning that they ate 68% of the total).[4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union

 

Well, in your opinion, what is the solution?

Let the oil companies keep pillaging folks until only the rich can afford to drive? That is precisely what they are doing. As less people drive because of it, they keep raising the prices to make up for the loss.

 

Fred, what you don't get is - that good economics isn't - maximize profits at all costs, to the detriment of the society they are living off. Therefore only a few, (in some cases - one?) benefit, until the consumers eventually get so annoyed and frustrated, most of the business goes elsewhere. This benefits the get rich quick greedy only. It doesn't even benefit them as much as what they could be making in productive profits.
Companies can and do, in some cases, provide a service to employees, society and the economy as a whole, whilst still making huge profits. They make huge profits because they are the best at what they do and give Jo/Jane Citizen what they want. THAT"S smart business and good capitalism, not the "Greed is Good" mentality, B.S. That's just barely legalized theft, and in many cases, not so legal, either.rolleyes

 

I don't know what the solution is. I am not an expert, but I think getting off of or vastly reducing the foreign oil we buy would help. Seems like every time there is a rumor of instability over in the Middle East, the price shoots up.

What do you think would solve it?

 

I honestly think the oil companies look forward to those rumors, because it gives them "justification" whether it affects them or not.

 

" that good economics isn't - maximize profits at all costs, to the detriment of the society"

I agree with that. There has to be a balance. Imagine trying to run a hospital by hiring minimum wage people. How many brain surgeons are going to work for $7 and hour? Obviously, a corporation has to offer benefits (salary and or other benefits) in order to attract skilled people, so they can offer a desired product. Using the same example, try running a hospital that the minimum pay is $1 million per year. You would have plenty of applicants, but that ain't gonna work either.

"best at what they do and give Jo/Jane Citizen what they want. THAT"S smart business and good capitalism, not the "Greed is Good" mentality,"

Again, I agree. But greed, in my opinion is good. It seems many think of greed as evil.

"Definition of GREED
: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/greed

I disagree with that definition of 'greed' as used in this thread. Who defines what is 'needed'? How many of you have told your boss to pay you less per week, because you make more than your rent and bills. Or do you take the extra money and save it or invest it? I don't want to get half a stock dividend and a letter telling me about the charity the corporation donated half my dividend to. I will handle my charitable donations.

Do you buy a stock with the hope that in 6 months you can sell it for half of what you paid for it? Evil 'corporate greed' seems to be overused.


"What human motivation gets the most wonderful things done? It’s really a silly question, because the answer is so simple. It turns out that it’s human greed that gets the most wonderful things done. When I say greed, I am not talking about fraud, theft, dishonesty, lobbying for special privileges from government or other forms of despicable behavior. I’m talking about people trying to get as much as they can for themselves."

"Free market capitalism is relatively new in human history. Prior to the rise of capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving one's fellow man. Capitalists seek to discover what people want and then produce it as efficiently as possible. Free market capitalism is ruthless in its profit and loss discipline."
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/12/ILoveGreed

 

I suspect they start half of them. I always love how the electric company always says that people's bill are high due to 'the unexpected demand' yeah, winter, it is such a random season. Never know when it is going to start. :-D

Same thing with gas every summer. Wow, we did not anticipate all the demand for gas this summer. I mean, when the heck else are most families going to take a vacation... :-D

 

Re: Fed:- Whereas I do agree that a fair degree of self-interest is required in order to motivate oneself and improve one's lot in life, it doesn't necessarily follow that "Greed is good", anymore than it follows that "Greed is evil". The concepts of good and evil are subjective to an extent, yes - but to debate these issues, one needs to define, not only what 'greed' means, but what 'good' and 'evil' themselves mean. If good can be loosely described as "an act or acts or motivation that has constructive intent and/or results to others lives', i.e. benevolent intent. Then 'evil' can be described as "an act or acts that have destructive intent and/or results to other's lives, i.e. malevolent intent.
Getting back to the point, the analogy of 'Greed is good' can be to "War is good'. Sure, a lot of inventions, discoveries and relative political stability can come from war, but then again, dying or being enslaved can really ruin your day, also.
I.O.W. "Greed" is neither good nor evil, it simply exists, as do the consequences of greed.
By your definition quoted:-

The "selfish and excessive" and the "than is needed" are the operative words and are definitely not desirable, i.m.o.
Ironically, it has been my experience as a Company Director myself, that you can make a lot more money and power, and be liked for it, than you can with dishonesty and ripping folks off, just because you can, i.m.h.o. Same applies whether it be a one-man operation or a multi-billion dollar Energy Corp.

 

I know a couple of seriously rich people (one is said to be worth 200 million euros and the obsession with making more money is unbelievable, he works 16 to 18 hours per day and his only driving force is wealth.
I am not so called rich but have enough to pay my way and have a new auto when i want one and am happy with my situation, i think it is in the genes this striving for more wealth and it is a certain mind set that is needed.
The top people in business would appear to have this attribute the there is never enough.
I have a lot of respect for Bill Gates who is a true philanthropist admittedly he will never run out of money but he does give huge sums to the community.
The Gas and oil companies are just avaricious but so is government (a huge part of the cost of a gallon of gas is tax) and they use the fluctuations in the world oil price to inflate profits,when the world price rises the pump price follows immediately but when it falls the delay is interminable so they reap a bonus once again.
I have never been able to understand why the gas price in Europe is so much higher than in the Americas when we are so much closer to the middle eastern oil fields other than our governments are more avaricious and treat the tax on fuel as a cash cow.
It is always the poorer folk who suffer the high price of oil because most of the rich can offset the cost of fuel against tax but the poor just have to "pay up and shut up".
As you will understand this is a fly in my ointment but i am just a grumpy old man:-D

 

Funny. I thought we no longer had a Hot Button forum because of topics like this...

 

Why?...:confused
Nobody is talking about Religion or being political, except in the broadest of terms, or even disagreed much with each other. We're mainly just philosophizing about the Corporate 'Greed' mentality, amongst other things. Not only is there nothing wrong with it, it should be discuss more often, i.m.h.o.
Would you rather we just stuck to talking about picking our nose, or something?:booger

 

:foolish

 

I agree. We are discussing in broad terms the cost of gas, and perhaps some ways to lower the cost of gas. How could you have any 'learned discussion' about the price of gas in the US without touching on Economics, corporate 'greed', gubment regulation and Capitalism?

 

Yeah for it to be a "Hot" topic, you need disagreement. I've not yet seen anyone saying, "Omg you idiots! I LOVE the gas prices!"

 

California supply, tax on the gas in the ground are still showing prices nudging $5 per gallon this week.

My 2000 Toyota Tundra with 4.7 8 cyl gets 15 mpg. This hurts..... since I am driving 36 miles one way to commute.

 

Ouch! I am lucky, my 4 cyl 'Yota gets a little over 25MPG. And gas is staying under $3.50 so far... Anyone seen the 'reason' being given for the high prices in CA? I heard a couple of refineries had some problems, not sure if that is correct.

 

I am not certain about the source I am quoting from, but it does make sense. I do recall that CA does have a lot of regulations on how the fuel is refined.

"California has strict fuel specifications, and its fuel is produced almost exclusively by California refineries. The specifications for fuel in surrounding states are different, so California is really an island as far as their fuel production is concerned. If they have a shortage, fuel can’t flow in from neighboring regions due to their more restrictive specifications. This greatly increases the risks of a supply disruption in the case of refinery problems."

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/The-Reasons-Behind-Californias-High-Gas-Prices.html

If they have to refine all of their fuel, that could cause a shortage if some refineries were down.

"The Chevron fire alone was enough to drive gasoline prices in California higher, but an unplanned outage at an ExxonMobil (NYSE:XOM) refinery in Torrance further crimped supplies. In a market that was already seriously constrained, this resulted in very low gasoline inventories that caused some stations to completely running out of fuel. Obviously, in a case like this gasoline prices are going to rise, and if stations are running out of fuel they are going to rise sharply."

From the same article.

 

I was reading a bit about Exxon.

This was a bit surprising.

"The company reported total revenue in 2008 of over $477 billion, giving the company a profit margin of about 9%. That's in line with other manufacturing industries, and far below the margins seen in other sectors, such as tech."

I can't imagine a company making $477 billion, but 9% is not that much of a profit.

This goes back to my thoughts on letting the market work:

"Some have said the company returns too much money to shareholders and not enough finding new oil, a situation that drives up oil prices for everyone."

Who are these people to tell Exxon how to do it's bidness?

"Analysts have credited the company for a shrewd, if controversial, management style - avoiding lots of spending on expensive projects to find and develop oil when prices were high.

"ExxonMobil's financial strength continued to support its disciplined capital investment approach in the midst of a growing global economic slowdown," Exxon chief Rex Tillerson said in a statement."

Quotes above are from this older (2009) article. http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/30/news/companies/exxon_earnings/index.htm

Exxon also makes products used in tires, medical applications, plastic, and tires. I did not know they did such a variety of products.

http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Chem-English/productsservices/products_services.aspx

So, Big Oil does not get all of it's evil profits from gas. I just picked Exxon to Google on, but I am sure the other oil companies do similar stuff. And I am not trying to defend Exxon, I was just curious about how much $ they made. I would have thought their profit margin would have been at least 25%.

 

They refine 27 grades of gasoline in California. Some goes to Nevada and Arizona who have the same strict additive-to-reduce-smog requirements. :-o

I am told that not long after the Exxon Valdez fiasco, the regulations were placed that ONLY allow CA crude to enter refineries for CA gas markets. There are oil wells in Santa Barbara and Bakersfield that do supply CA at least some crude.

The price was due to supply/demand and it will take about a month to restabilize the prices back down to the 65 cent lower prices. Unless there is another attack spiking crude futures again.

 

Wow, 27 different grades... Well, looks like that is the reason for high gas in CA.

I knew there was a summer/winter blend, but other than that, I thought it was regular, mid and supreme.