Cheap mATX case?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by biogenesis, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Ok well look.

    This is what I have.

    Asus M2N-VM HDMI mobo
    AMD 64 X2 6000+ 3.1
    3GB Kingston 800mhz RAM
    Coolermaster 600w pcar PSU
    2 IDE HDD's
    DVD RW
    Sapphire HD4890 Vapor X 2gb

    Now that machine runs Resident Evil 5 at absolute max settings including full AA and filtering. 1980x1050 res.
    It runs at the lowest (busiest parts, lots of fire/dust/enemies etc) 52FPS.

    Now a lot of that is the card, before I had it with a Sapphire X1950 512mb card and could run any game before Shader 3 at medium settings, again that was the card.

    If you can find a mobo with enough graphical power to run games at medium settings with 25+FPS then you will be pleased and so would I be.
    But you will know that when you have enough money you can throw in a good card and boost the system.
    I've run some tests on my system and have not seen any real evidence of my CPU bottlenecking my GFX.
    It does get a little laggy on Dragon Age in busy parts, down to 25FPS with high settings.
    But anything over 20FPS is playable, over 25 it's almost seemless. Lets just say that on a 24" 1080p HD monitor, I can barely tell the difference between 25-30FPS and 50FPS, you can see it, but it doesn't affect gameplay.
    I can run Crysis maxed out at an average of 25-28FPS and drops to 20-25FPS when it gets heavy. Crysis is a very very heavy game to run full spec.
     
  2. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    Sounds nice, Seems like a system I would be pleased with. So i guess that's the goal, To get a good start on building a system like that to be potentially as good later on when I'm able to invest more money into it. If you guys could help me get a set up like that which could possibly handle some of those games like R5 later on, that'd be great.

    Edit: Now the question is, will either the $241.00 or $285.00 rig, have the potential to be that good of a gaming system such as yours? Seeing that later on i invest more into it for Gfx cards and more memory and such.

    I don't want a gaming machine right away, I want a good start though, lets call it a "potential gaming machine".
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  3. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Ok well I'm looking and kind of torn, I can find you the same basic setup minus GFX obviously for about $200 plus PSU but it is a step up from mine and would future proof you a bit more.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130247
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134751

    Or I can find you pretty much mine and knock it down to $142 plus PSU

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103772
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130241
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134635

    Bare in mind I'm jst finding this stuff and not researching how reliable it is, well the RAM and chips are fine I know and the higher end board is ok but the lower end board I jut kind of grabbed as example.
    To get it right we will need a definite descision of what you want to go for.
    I would go for the higher end, but it would mean scaping together any tax or shipping involved on top of prices mentioned.

    The GFX on the top board is an ATI HD4200, from what I've seen it's not bad for onboard, the lower is a GeForce6150se.
    Onboard is never great but I think both will get you started.
     
  4. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

  5. pclover

    pclover MajorGeek

  6. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    R5 is a pretty high end game, so i'm sticking to what i said in the other post, if i can get a setup to play it on max settings, i'll be more than happy. Of course it won't do that right away but will have the potential. Cheaper PSU.. That's really good news lol.
     
  7. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    1) CPU, RAM, BOARD.
    1) $213.00 without psu.
    1) $253.00 with PSU.
    + $ 20.00 For CD Drive.
    $273.00.

    2) CPU, RAM, BOARD.
    2) $153.00 without psu.
    2) $193.00 with psu.
    + $ 20.00 For CD Drive
    $213.00.

    I could do either, IF i can use my IDE HDD, if so all i have to worry about is a starter case, that one on ebay is gone.
     
  8. scajjr

    scajjr Sergeant

    Most new motherboards still have 1 IDE channel so you can connect 2 IDE devices to it.


    About a year ago I spent the following to do my upgrade
    from an Athlon 64 3400+ setup:

    Phenom II X3-720BE &TA790GX-128m combo $210
    4Gb (2x2Gb) GSkill DDR2-800 40
    OCZ SXS 600w PSU 70
    Sapphire HD4830 512mb video 99
    $419

    (Cost to buy the same today $535
    The same memory is now $85, CPU is now only available in OEM and the 4830 is hard to find and now $140.)

    I could have used the onboard HD3300 video if I wasn't playing games. I reused the SATA 640Gb HDD and SATA DVD/RW drive along with the CRT monitor, keyboard, mouse and full tower case.

    Over the past year I've added 4 more Gb of ram ($45), a 1Tb HD ($99), 9800GTX+ OC 1Gb video ($140) and a 25" LCD monitor ($179). I also sold some things (the 4830 and some other older cards and parts I had around) for a total of about $200, so the upgrades cost me about $250 over the year.

    Currently have a HD 5850 1Gb vid card coming ($300, should be here tomorrow). May sell the 9800GTX+ or put it in wife's computer.

    Sam
     
  9. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    I most def like that first deal better.
     
  10. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Yeah acording to specs, personally I would want to go 600w min, but you're probably right, it would run middle of the road cards.
    I don't think it would run high end properly though.

    @Bio... The higher of the 2 is definitely the better one to go for, the chip and ram are both faster and the onboard GFX is more powerful.
    Bare in mind that onboard GFX isn't going to blow you away and you will still need a card, but for now it will most definitely be a major boost to what you have. And will probably acomplish your original goal of WOW.

    Now what you should do, is have the money in your hand and ready to order, then Maybe we couls squeeze a little more for your money with sale items. But thats not a bad deal, I'd actually be kind of jealous, apart from the GFX lol
     
  11. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    lol ok so, if i went with that one and later on put a nice gfx card in it would i be able to play games like R5 on max settings?
     
  12. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Well yeah, the cheaper one is basically what I have except the mobo. But you don't want my mobo, it's a pain in the butt lol
    This will be dependant on what GFX card you get obviously but the X2 6000 and the 2gb of 800mhz ram is enough to do it's part on Resi Evil 5. This comes from my testing on my system which is the same (although I have 3gb of RAM but thats a simple upgrade for $30 sometime down the line)
    Like I said, my setup is fairly old now and going with the more expensive setup will future proof you.
    Either will do what you want but for the extra money you will get a fair bit more power.
    The higher CPU is a bit quicker and the RAM is nearly 30% faster.
    Add a good card to it and you'll be set for a good while.

    Resi Evil 5 is not a horrendously hard game to run but it is up there.
    There will be a few select games that you may have mild issues with when maxing out everything. Games like Dragon Age and Far Cry 2 may give you mild frame drops at high settings because they rely a lot on CPU, BUT you will run them fine.

    If you don't expect to build a PS3 for $300 then you are going to be happy.

    I know I keep saying about Crysis but that game is so heavy.
    It looks beautiful and is still the graphical benchmark others are measured by nearly 4 years later.
    If I put it on medium settings I can run it at 40-50FPS.

    So the chip and ram in both options are enough for what you want and can afford.
    When you throw in a good GFX card you will be set.

    BTW, what Operating System are you going to be running?
     
  13. bigfurrykid

    bigfurrykid Sergeant

    Hey Bio, I see that you got that case. I emailed the seller yesterday and asked them to put 1 aside for you. :highfive
     
  14. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    Sounds good, from what you say either build will have the POTENTIAL to be just about as good as yours when I'm ready to put more money in it that is, with that in mind I think id be pleased. I think I'm gonna go for the higher one though. I'll probably run windows xp home, I can't afford to get vista or 7 right now.
     
  15. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    awesome lol. Kinda sucks though that's it's possibly gonna be shipped to my old address (parents place) in Ohio, I live in IL now, LOL. I don't think it's been shipped yet; so i sent him a msg and asked if he could fix my mistake and send it here; it all depends if he gets on any time soon and checks his ebay messages.
     
  16. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Well running XP will give you even better results, I'm running Win7 ult. on mine and it takes a fair chunk of my power from me. Not bad but quite a bit more than XP, it was the reason I got the extra gb of ram.

    So it's looking like you're just about there, getting excited yet? lol
     
  17. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    Yeah seeing that ive never had anything higher than a single core.
     
  18. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Just looking and a few people have had minor issues with the board I suggested, pretty much any board gives somebody issues to some degree but just though I'd fine a second idea.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131609

    This one is $5 more and has slightly better reviews, I don't think I would really worry too much about either, I mean if it's a lemon then you return it, wont kno until you get it.
    Personally I like Asus, but have had MSI boards too and had equal amounts of issues with both, niether have given me real headaches though.

    Just giving you some extra options, do some reading on other review sites, Toms Hardware is good for reviews.
     
  19. bigfurrykid

    bigfurrykid Sergeant

    If your parents are still there, either they can send it to you, or there's a built in excuse for a visit of some sort.
    Road trip!
     
  20. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131609
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171031
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134751

    Ok so this is the build I'm going for, I already have a case on the way, I have a Standard IDE CD drive and an IDE HDD So all i need is the above.
    If I done my math right, Including shipping that's all gonna come to a total of roughly $258.00, I'll have a total of 226.00 soon so I'm about 32 dollars short but I already ahve a plan for coming up with that money.
    Did i get anything wrong, will that ram and CPU work with that board??

    "Road trip!" Haha yeah, I think the guy from ebay got it all fixed for me though, he canceled the shipping and is gonna have it sent here. so all is well.
     
  21. scajjr

    scajjr Sergeant

    Yes the CPU and memory will work with that board according to the product page on Asus' site.

    Sam
     
  22. bigfurrykid

    bigfurrykid Sergeant

    Looks decent. Decided to go with a dual core? You can always step it up and use the left over parts to build a back-up system.
    I currently have 10 working desktops and 2 working laptops.
    Not to mention the projects that I'm currently working on.
    I have a bad habit of picking something up, or starting a new project before getting rid of the old ones.
    Luckily, wifey doesn't venture into my office too often. :-D
     
  23. Burrell

    Burrell MajorGeek

    OMG! Do you have uses for them all?

    Burrell
     
  24. bigfurrykid

    bigfurrykid Sergeant

    Nope! I usually rescue strays that never end up leaving. :grouphug
     
  25. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    lol..
     
  26. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Good, Good :)

    Yes that board is upgradable to quad when you want neabibg you culd buy the chip and keep the board and ram.

    It's all comming together now eh :-D

    You do know how to put this stuff together right? :-D

    @BFK... You're odd, but kind...... in an odd sort of way lol
     
  27. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    I did the biostar build with no problem, Ive never built an AMD rig. I'm sure it's not that much different to put together is it? and that's awesome about the quad core thing, i did not know that.. :-D

    btw, in the specs for that board how can you tell it supports quad core?? "Phenom II / Athlon II / Sempron 100 Series" one of those is quad core?

    one more thing, it says 2600MHZ fsb, what would that equal to in intel, still 2600Mhz fsb? that's like x3 + of my curent 800mhz board.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
  28. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Yes that is 3x your old board chip lol

    As for the Quad upgrade, now you've mentioned it I'm not 100% sure but it supports Phenom II upto 125w on an AM3 socket which fits most AMD quad specs :)

    Having said that I would always get CPU + Mobo, but it's nice to know you can upgrade.
    Maybe someone else could confirm this?
     
  29. scajjr

    scajjr Sergeant

    According to the product support page on Asus' site it'll take ALL the Athlon II X4's and Phenom II X4's including the 965 3.4Ghz.

    Once you click on a product on Newegg, there are 3 tabs under the picture. The one in the middle (combo is the laft one) is Manufacturer Info. Click that one and under Manufacturer Contact Info is a link titled Manufacturer Product Page. That'll take you to the mfgrs page for that item. With most motherboards the mfgr page has BIOS, driver and manual downloads plus supported CPU and Memory module lists.

    Sam
     
  30. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Thank you for confirming that :)
     
  31. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    I just noticed something about that board..

    "*Due to OS limitation, when installing total memory of 4GB capacity or more, Windows® 32-bit operation system may only recognize less than 3GB. Hence, a total installed memory of less than 3GB is recommended.
    **Refer to www.asus.com or user manual for the Memory QVL (Qualified Vendors Lists) ""

    This means id have to get a 64 bit OS to use more than a couple gb of ram?
     
  32. scajjr

    scajjr Sergeant

    Any Windows 32-bit operating system will NOT use all 4Gb of ram. It's the way 32-bit memory management is done. You will end up with about 3.5Gb that Windows will use. It's NOT the motherboard, it's 32-bit Windows. Nothing you can do about it.

    I have 8Gb in my system. Win 7x64 can use it all. When I boot into XP 32-bit, it only sees 3.5Gb of the 8.

    Sam
     
  33. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    yeah.. ill have to go x64 later on...
     
  34. bigfurrykid

    bigfurrykid Sergeant

    I had XP on my system with 4 gigs of ram before a fatal crash a few days ago. :***
    It would only recognize 3 of the 4.

    I did everything, but to no avail. So I ended up dumping everything and switching to Windows 7.

    Luckily, I don't keep alot of important stuff on any one system.

    Between my back-up system, wifey's system and my laptop, I still have almost everything that I lost, when my system went kablooey!

    Sorry, I almost forgot to ask, did you get your case yet? That guy ships really fast and I had mine in 2 days.
     
  35. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    That sucks, Backups are always good, I never keep anything important on my systems with out a backup cause I always expect that the worst could happen. Nah haven't got that case, I'm thinking I'll get it today. I've already ordered the case and PSU, still waiting for cash from my sister for the biostar rig.
     
  36. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    @BFK........ Don't you just hate it when that happens, but you will be pleasantly surprised with Win7 ;)

    @Bio.... What PSU did you end up going for?
     
  37. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    that 40 dollar one, i got it and the case today and also got my biostar sold for the other 100.00 i need. ordering all the rest now. :-D:-D:-D
     
  38. bigfurrykid

    bigfurrykid Sergeant

    Bio, glad you got the case. I hope it works out good for you.

    I've been looking to try Windows 7, but didn't want to go out and buy a new OS while I still had a working one.

    The crash gave me an excuse to go out and get 7.

    I could always reload XP if I don't care too much for 7 and put 7 on my spare system.
     
  39. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    yeah.. I just hope i can run the ide HDD and CD drive on the same channel or i'll have to come up with another 20 dollars lol.
     
  40. scajjr

    scajjr Sergeant

    I"ve been using 7 since the release candidate and haven't looked back. On my fiance's older Inspiron laptop (P4 2Ghz, 2Gb ram) boot-up time (from hitting power button to functioning desktop) went from about 2-3 minutes with XP to about 45 sec with 7.
    For me the Homegroup networking is the best part. We have 5 computers at home and 7 sets up the Homgroup networking so easy, just enter the password it creates and they all talk to each other.
    Perfect? No. But to me it's the best Windows so far.

    Sam
     
  41. bigfurrykid

    bigfurrykid Sergeant

    Thanks Sam. So far, so good. I still have XP if I don't take to this.
    I have Vista on my laptop and wifey's desktop and with enough ram, it doesn't disappoint me like so many other users feel it does.
    7 feels and acts like a more dependable, high performance version of Vista.

    Time will tell.
     
  42. scajjr

    scajjr Sergeant

    I ran Vista as well and after the first service pack I thought it was pretty good. 7 is what Vista should/could have been.

    Sam
     
  43. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    Ok got everything and put it all together, as expected it's fast. Just a couple problems, when I install sp2 on xp home, the computer just keeps restarting and won't load windows. Also, I am having problems trying to run an IDE HDD and IDE CD drive on the same IDE channel. It just won't do it, lol. Ive tried every jumper setting possible.
     
  44. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    Anyone have any clue why this is happening?
     
  45. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Glad you got the bits :)

    Not sure why you are having problems with SP2, a separate post in the Software section would get you more info than in this thread.

    Your Drive problem, little more info needed.

    What do you mean by it just wont do it?
    It's not recognizing the DVD drive?
    Is there power to the DVD drive (can you open/close it?)

    What make and model are your HDD and DVD drive?
    Knowing this we can double check jumper settings for you.

    I have a few ideas why if not the jumpers, but lets start with the jumpers, it will also give me time to wake up lol
     
  46. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    It just wont work, lol. The drive is old, like Pentium 3 old.

    It did recognize it, but even though i had a cd in the drive it said please insert CD. Other times at bios screen it would say ATPI something, not compatible.

    Yeah there's power to the drive and it opens and closes.

    I'm not sure what make and model the CD drive is, I pulled it out of an old P3 setup, but it's worked before, it's the same drive i used with the biostar system. The HDD Is a Maxtor 6Y080L0.

    On the CD drive there are 3 jumper sets, 2 give me the same error: Error loading operating system, the other one says "ATPI something, not compatible" It seems to me that the system just wont allow the CD drive to be set as slave.
     
  47. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Ok well the HDD jumper wants to be on the left as you're looking at it from the back.
    Vertical.
    Master.

    The CD drive depends, it may be the slave jumper is blank meaning you don't put a jumper in it.

    If it's not being recognised in BIOS then there is either something wrong with the drive or it's set up incorectly.

    Make sure the ribbon cable is seated firmly on mobo, HDD and op drive.
    Also set your Boot sequence to DVD/cd - HDD -
    You may also need to find drivers for it, pretty rare to need drivers for DVD drive but it's not unheard of.

    You could also try a different cable, sometimes I've found certain cables give me problems.

    If after this you are still having problems, post how exactly you have it set up.
    Cable positions.
    Jumper positions.

    Edit: Just thought, if your DVD drive doesn't work, how did you install Windows?
    Just suddenly thought, if you managed to install Windows ok from the same drive then it could be related to your SP2 issue.
     
  48. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    The HDD's Jumper is all the way to the left I believe, seeing that on the other side you can't set that jumper because the second pin is blocked in.

    I have tried every jumper setting with the CD Drive, "Right" "Left" "Middle" "None" They all gave me problems.

    Bios does recognize the CD drive and HDD but some of the jumper settings will cause it to recognize one but not the other.

    The ATA socket is a real pain actually, Ive never had any problem plugging in an IDE cable till now, I think it's in as good as it'll go, I thought maybe it wasn't so i have tried re seating it several several times but no change.

    "Also set your Boot sequence to DVD/cd - HDD -" First boot device HDD right?

    Ive tried other cables, still no change.

    I'm yet to try a couple things before i post how i have it set, once i post this i'll set my jumpers and let ya know how it turns out; along with settings.

    I knew you'd ask how i installed windows, I used an old MO/BO, let it install windows with out installing drivers or anything else, then i hooked it to the new MO/BO and all was well. I think? lol.

    I don't know how I'm gonna find drivers for it, No where on it does it state the model name.
     
  49. biogenesis

    biogenesis Sergeant

    Ok the IDE Cable i was using is bad, I put in the one that came with the board though it may be damaged as well cause the GF sat on it lol. BUT, Both the HDD and CD Drive are detected properly in BIOS, as well in My computer with the C drive. BUT when i try to play a cd it says: please insert a disk into drive D:. The HDD is hooked into Master, the CD is slave as it reads in bios as well. CD drive, No Jumper set, HDD Jumper all the way to the left.

    I would try finding drivers for the CD drive but lol.... i have no way of knowing what the model name is... Though everything looks fine in device manager.
     
  50. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Ok so we know the drive works and we know it's seen, so this could be either disc problems.
    Try many different discs and give it a few minutes to see if it will fire.

    Or, like I said, this could be related to your SP2 problem.

    The last resort would be a BIOS update, but thats a LAST resort.
     

MajorGeeks.Com Menu

Downloads All In One Tweaks \ Android \ Anti-Malware \ Anti-Virus \ Appearance \ Backup \ Browsers \ CD\DVD\Blu-Ray \ Covert Ops \ Drive Utilities \ Drivers \ Graphics \ Internet Tools \ Multimedia \ Networking \ Office Tools \ PC Games \ System Tools \ Mac/Apple/Ipad Downloads

Other News: Top Downloads \ News (Tech) \ Off Base (Other Websites News) \ Way Off Base (Offbeat Stories and Pics)

Social: Facebook \ YouTube \ Twitter \ Tumblr \ Pintrest \ RSS Feeds