Cheap mATX case?

A problem I have seen with newer motherboards that only have 1 IDE channel is an increase of IDE HDDs & CD/DVD drives not working well with each other. Had it happen with my TA790GX-128M.

You can try a couple things. Try CD as master, HDD as slave. Or set both to cable select.

Sam

 

there are a lot of problems popping up, But that may be because I couldn't run the full driver disc for the board, I loaded the cd on to my gf's laptop and got the more important drivers like Video, Lan, audio, chip set, ect. But another problem I just noticed; my network connections wont show in the network connections folder, an error comes up saying make sure the network connection services are enabled and running; even though it is i still get that error; I found this problem while trying to network the two computers so i could load the full Driver CD on to my system. If you're wondering how i got drivers on here in the first place, i used a really small flash drive and copied one at a time, i can't do that with the whole disc, it'd take forever.

Ive never updated bios before EVER, from what i hear it's really touchy and if you mess up you may be.. screwed? lol.

 

Ok, just as a test, boot into safe mode and see if it works and boot your PC from disc using the XP cd and see if it fires, don't format obviously but see if it will get you to the format option. Given you now have the drive recognised it should boot to disc.
Then I'd suggest restarting, you said you installed XP using a different board, while that was good thinking I don't know how well it would work and could be the root of many of your problems.

And Scajjr is right, there are some problems popping up ith newer boards and older drive, newer drives and older boards.
They can be fixed , it's just a matter of working through it. Welcome to the world of home building PC's lol

And yes, BIOS updates can be very touchy and like I said thats a very LAST resort.

 

The drives seem to be the only problem now, I fixed the network connections issue when I fixed the SP2 problem as i said in the software post. Yeah home building PC's lot's of fun, LOL

 

Ok good stuff and also bad stuff lol

You could try Scajjr's suggestion.
It will be another one eliminated... or it may fix it.

It would be best if you could get hold of another Optical drive even if borrowed just to eliminate the drive itself. Although it worked with the other motherboard, man this is my problem from last week all over again lol
Mine was an SATA problem though so the solution wouldn't work here.

RE: Your software thread reply, I don't want to pull it off topic because I'll get wrong lol, at worst case if you need to buy a new Optical drive they are pretty cheap, $25 for a Sony DVD/RW so it's not the end of the world, pain in the butt I know.

I have to say, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who buys stuff and can't simply switch it on and have it work without having to "Get it" to work lol

 

Bio, not sure if this will help, but can you go into your start menu, under my computer, left click on that optical drive and right click on properties.
Try the hardware tab at the top and it may give you more information on the type of drive that you have installed.
Then you can see if you can find additional drivers online.

I believe that is what I did before to fix one of my drive problems.

May be worth a shot and surely can't hurt.

 

BFK just jolted my mind lol

http://majorgeeks.com/Nero_InfoTool_d120.html

This may tell you everything you need to know about the drive. Wonderful little tool and facepalming myself for not thinking of it earlier lol sorry about that.

 

I'll try that next time i hook the drive up, Got really aggravated trying to get it to work, I'm givin it a break.

Anyhow, The on board GFX (700mb) on this board seem pretty decent, I can Play ijji - s.u.n on full settings, cpu runs around 60 - 70 % I believe, I tried one of there higher end games, Alliance of valiant arms, on default settings, even for default settings it looked NICE, BUT it was a lot of strain on the CPU, it runs at 100 % the entire time (Ive heard something like i could unlock a 3rd core on this cpu, is that possible and would that help?) I know as for higher end games, this on board GFX won't do me much good, I'll have to get a card, But even then will i be able to play those games?? Or will i have to go all out, upgrade to x4 cpu, get a but load of ram and a video card, basically max the board out before i even think about playing any of those types of games?

 

Not at all, like I said I have the X2 a step down from yours and I play the latest games on max with no problems, currently playing Mass Effect 2 at max with FPS averaging 35-50.
Like I said, the only games that slow a little are games like Dragon Age, but I'm talking a drop to maybe 20FPS in certain parts and 40FPS most of the time.
Your next move should be a GFX card.
And the CPU running at 100% isn't anything to worry about as long as it doesn't lag out which I'm sure it wont with most games.
You can't unlock a 3rd core since you only have a dual core (as far as I know), some games wont use both cores which can cause problems but to be honest unlocking cores is not something I've ever needed to do.
You have an AMD, they are well known for their overclocking capabilities so if you wanted to do that you could get more from it.
Check out the overclockers sections for advice and techniques on OC'ing.

You can also grab Game Booster by IObit, it's a good little prog that shuts down processers you don't need while gaming, I drop 10% of CPU and 12% Ram with it.

 

The higher end game i spoke of, I can play it on full settings but default settings have a much smoother game play, but either way I get the 100% CPU usage, I guess i was just afraid that running at 100% would do harm.

Mass effect 2 looks like a nice one, how much did you pay for it? I haven't really looked into how much it costs, Not too worried bout it right now anyway cause it'll be a while before i get a GFX card. I'm pretty please with the way this thing runs right now though, I can do more than just browse the internet lol.:cool

I don't know if i wanna do any over clocking with this setup; from what i hear you can really trash your system by overclocking.

Yeah, game booster is a nice program, i was using it on the biostar rig, I haven't used it yet cause i wanted to see how far i could push this build, it does pretty good but I'll probably start using game booster anyway; I know it'll help some.

 

Bio, just my 2 cents. Regarding overclocking, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I've heard some horror stories about potential damage from overclocking and I personally would not attempt it at my experience level.
At least not on my main system.

I may be tempted to mess around with one of my spares, since I currently have 7 running systems, but I wouldn't want to risk any damage to my "pride and joy".

To me, building my own system was extremely rewarding, but blowing it up would really suck swamp water. :cry

 

yeah, lol.

 

No not usually, AMD's are pretty tough and mine runs high frequently, I put my PC under a lot of pressure one way and another and I got the CPU from my mothers b/f a year ago and it was already a year old and temps still sit around 35c.
If you have concerns then just check the temps now and again, but I don't foresee any issues with that CPU.

As for smoother game play, you will always get the best gameplay with lower settings, it's all about FPS (frames per second), anything over 25 is perfect in my opinion, I never start noticing lag until it gets down to 18 ish.
There's a myth that humans can only see 30FPS max (DVD movie speed) but it depends on what is going on in the game and how good your eyes and responses are, some people can see the difference between 40 and 60 while others don't see a difference between 25 and 50.
Basically, set the game up to play and look how you enjoy it most.

I got it from a friend for $25, he said it was too confusing lol, it is at first like all RPG's but you get the hang of it after a couple of hours and the game is HUGE! , I made a top 10 games of the decade in games section and if ME2 had been released last year it would have made my top 5 easily.

Pleased you're happy with it, I mean you can't expect super sonic speeds for the cost but I'm sure you are finding it much less frustrating than your old setup.

Yes and no, I've played with OC'ing a few times and really pushed the limits and not damaged, but it can happen. And if you're not comfortable doing things like that then you shouldn't attempt them, like BFK said, as long as it's working for you, leave it be.

Yeah it's worth doing just for that little extra kick, you probably wont notice near as much as you used to but when a game kicks in heavy it can be the difference between 15FPS and 25FPS.

 

super sonic speeds? lol. Well if i can play games like ME-2 on mid or high settings once i get a good video card, id say that's pretty close to that. lol.

 

For trying OC'ing, AMD Overdrive is a pretty safe way to go.
Put out by AMD, has novice and advanced settings so you won't get into trouble unless you want to.

As for the extra cores, there are some dual cores that are quads that didn't pass testing. Most common CPU though is the 720BE triple core. They are actually quads that 1 core didn't pass AMD's stress testing so they were released as triple core CPUs. IF your BIOS has the function to enable it you can activate the extra core.. My TA790GX did until I updated the BIOS. The updated BIOS disabled that function. I ran it with 4 for a bit but there wasn't a huge leap in performance so I went back to the stock 3.

Sam

 

Hmm, I get about 25 - 35 FPS for the most part on two of the ijji games i play.

---
http://ava.ijji.com/
35 FPS Default settings.
15 - 20 FPS Max settings (Not playable)
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3874/36ava.png
---

---
http://sun.ijji.com/
25 - 30 FPS Max settings
Plays fine, I get lag spikes in some towns with lots of players.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2640/28sun.jpg
---

I still wanna know if when i get a nice video card I'll be able to play a game like Mass effect 2 with out having to play on lowest settings. Right now I'm gonna say, No, no chance at all. lol. At the same time I wonder how much the FPS will Improve on those two games above, and will i be able to play ava on full settings.

 

lol, dude seriously, I've just come off ME2, I have a CPU less powerful than yours. I run it totally maxed out on the highest res on a 24" 1080p HDMI monitor.
Runs almost flawlessly.

A new GFX card will greatly improve everything, you're running slow at the moment because your onboard GFX is fairly weak, it's not horrible but it's certainly not good enough to run anything in the last couple of years on max.

It's going to depend largly on what GFX you get.
Your CPU has enough power, trust me, your RAM could do with 1 more GB for a bit of a kick but your GFX needs heavily upgrading.

Give you an Example.

Crysis FPS

My machine with X1950 pro 512mb = Medium settings lucky if I got 20FPS, lowest I saw was 8FPS

Same machine with HD4890 Vapor X 2GB = 100% Max settings (including DX10), average of 25-40FPS, lowest 18FPS

Hell I could get 30FPS with the X1950 on Doom 3, I got a steady unflinching 60FPS on Resi Evil 5 with the 4890.
Half Life 2 on X1950 got me maybe 25FPS peak, played it last week on 4890 and it was 78FPS and dropped to lowest 72FPS.

Nothing else changed, AMD Athlon X2 6000+ (yours is the Athlon II, it's slightly faster), 2GB RAM (now 3GB), just 2 different GFX cards.

While playing ME2 my CPU is 97-100% and like I said, it runs almost flawlessly with a few little stutters here and there but I think it's game glitches more than anything, also my HDD's are old and don't transfer data very quickly giving me longer loading times and the occasional stutter.

Your CPU and RAM are fine

Edit: The games you mentioned above I don't play but I'm guessing they are online live play? If so lag can also be created by connection to the server, not always your machine.

 

Missed the edit DoH! lol

I thought I'd do a comparison for you.

Your onboard GFX specs.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...es/ati-radeon-hd-4200-specificatications.aspx

My HD4890.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk.../Pages/ati-radeon-hd-4890-specifications.aspx

Whether you understand the specs or not, the numbers speak for themselves.
Onboard GFX are never very powerful even if you spend a lot of money on the mobo.

 

Ok you've assured me enough now that my machine will do well with a new GFX card, some time in the future when i get more money for one, which wont be any time soon. So i'll leave that subject alone for now. One question though, what are the requirements for DX-10?? You can't get it on XP or what??

 

There are DX10 installs for XP but as far as I know none of them work very well, Win Vista or 7 is required for true DX10.
Honestly it's not worth the hassle trying to put it on XP, unless someone knows an easy stable version.

Well I just took a few screens for you, just so you can SEE the issues you have concerns about.

This is the Video settings for ME2.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm230/Nedlamar/me2set.jpg

This is CPU use while the game is open but minimized.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm230/Nedlamar/cpuuse01.jpg

And here's 2 shots of the game in motion (tricky taking screen shots while trying not to die lol) I took them in action sequences to try and put a heavy load graphically.
The yellow number in the top left is FRAPS frames per seconds recorder.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm230/Nedlamar/me201.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm230/Nedlamar/me202.jpg

Yes I'm about to die in the second one :-D
The quality of the pic takes some of the clarity away from what I actually see but you get the idea.

Hope this helps reassure you

I know sometimes we expect more than we get from new hardware but until the whole system is up to par you wont really see it's potential.
Hopefully you will be able to sort a GFX card soon, good news is the longer you wait, the cheaper the older ones like mine get

 

Yeah I had a hard time taking an in game screen shot in AVA with out dieing, That game is INSANE, 2 steps around a corner and you get 10 ppl shooting at you lol.

 

I'm gonna have to pay ALOT, maybe almost as much as i paid for the build alone, to get a nice higher end gaming Video card aren't I?

 

Yes and no, you can get good cards for $120-150, mine was $320 plus customs, I had to get it imported from Hong Kong lol, no where in North America had one.

But you can get the HD4850's now for around $130 I think, thats what my son has and although it obviously doesn't match upto the 4890, it does the job. He's very much into graphics and wants everything to look good lol

It's a slow process I know, honestly I understand the lack of funds and wanting it now thing, but it will come. I'm sure there are some cards out there for $100 that will blow away your onboard. The idea of onboard was to get you up and running, now you're good for CPU and the rest, all you need is the card, you could start lowish end and build up, pretty much anything at this point is just going to continue to make your machine better.

 

Yeah the on board will have to do for a while, it's not all that bad, But when i get a card I'm probably just gonna go all out and spend 2 - 3 hundred, unless i give in before that and get a 100 dollar one. I'm guessing the more i spend on one the better of a card it'll be, meaning the more pleased with it i'll be. lol. I deff want a 1 or 2GB card.

 

Again, yes and no lol
You can get cheaper cards that are older, the 4800 series ATI's, they are cheaper, but the newer ones are not necessarily better for the money.
$100 isn't going to get you much, $150 will get you a decent card, I actually saw this morning that 4870's are now hovering around $160, only a year ago they were the better part of $350.
You will never be 100% satisfied when it comes to PC's, the technology moves so fast you have to be rich to keep up, but like me , you're not rich lol, so we have to find a nice medium between newest and performance. I'm happy with my system but I would love to crossfire my GFX, I would love a Phenom x4, but it will come eventually...... and when it does there will be something out thats better and I will want that.
The way I see it, build the best system you can realistically and stick with it for a while, then when you are ready, build a new system. Constantly upgrading bits and pieces is more expensive in the long run.

Your base system is gonna be fine for at least a couple of years before you start feeling it's age, throw in a decent GFX and you're set. Leave it there until you are ready to do it all again.

You'll get there I'm sure, like I've told you, I waited around 18 months for my GFX card, I had the money for it several times but something would always come up, car needs fixing, bills need paying etc etc, now I finally have it and I'm happy with it and not "Wanting" anymore, I know I'll upgrade, maybe next year, for now, it's playing all the games I want it to and running all the software I need it to.

 

When I got my 9800GTX+ a year ago I knew it was slightly below the more powerful cards out there. But it was on sale and for a 256-bit bus, 1Gb DDR3 card it came close to the performance of the higher nVidia cards.

The HD5850 is probably more than I need right now, but I figure it'll be good for 18-24 months until DX11 games need even more powerful cards.

I was going to sell the 9800 but then I asked why? I'd only get $80-$100 for it and it's a BFG so it has a lifetime warranty. I put it in the P4M900 rig and it'll probably stay in there till it or the mobo dies.

Sam

 

If i buy a card, i want to have a heck of a good chance at playing the more high end games for a while and not have to buy another card for a little while lol, might be impossible because how fast computer technology advances but.. don't the makers of any of these cards ever try to think ahead a little before they release new ones??? why buy a crad if it's gonna be about worthless in a year? That's exactly why id wanna spend a but load on a new card, new cards cost more and will probably be good for some of the future games that come out..

 

Bio, you may not necessarily need the "latest and greatest"!

Unless you plan on buying a bunch of new games as they come out and they require higher end graphics.

You can probably spend about $200 or maybe even less and be good for quite a few years.

Check around on the web and see if you can find gaming specific sites and see what's going on there.

Not that this site isn't great for all sorts of advice, but you may come across a site or two with some serious hardcore gaming junkies.

See what's going on there and bring that knowledge back here and I'm certain that our many awesome members can assist you with making the right choices.

 

Yeah i agree, seeing that I don't have a job anyway and probably wont be able to afford it lol, it's a nice thought though.

150.00 - 200.00 sounds reasonable.

The option of being able to play new games as they come out with out having to spend a but load more money on yet another card, would be a good thing.. But as ive said before, this computer right now is doing more than any of my old ones ever have. It'll be a while before i have the money to do any upgrades at all but when the time comes I just might get the hardware that i know will last me a while and have more of a chance to work with new games coming out.

I already know some time after i get a video card I may go quad core as well and will probably spend nearly $200.00 on it.

Anyway, thanks everyone for all the info and help, I think I'm gonna stop wasting everyone's time now until I'm ready to do my next upgrades.

 

Enjoy your new system Bio

 

Sorry I actually do have another question which i would post in software but i know you guys know my build so maybe you'd have an answer quicker than they would. I wanna try to get a copy of XP pro 64 bit seeing that I'm not gonna be able to afford 7, and i don't see vista as an option lol. Would i have any problem with xp 64 bit?? I had read something about for new computers & xp x64 there are hard drive detection issues, idk. I know because i use AMD that i had issues with SP2 and had to remove Intel stuff from the registry. So idk what kind of problems i may run in to.

 

I think the Intel/AMD problems you had stemed from the way you insalled XP, I've always had AMD and never had problems with any form of XP.
As for X64, I can't say I've heard of anyone having hardware problems, most issues come form people needing software that is not available in 64bit.
I use 32bit simply because my wife uses design software that will not work on a 64bit OS, even if I install it in x86 (32bit) mode.

I'd honestly say if you're going to upgrade your OS then Win7 would be the way to go, not only is it a great OS, it will probably make your PC run much smoother. Certainly has for me.
Obviously if you have Xp64 already then it's better to use that since it wont cost you any money lol

But to answer your question, I've only ever had software compatability issues with x64, never had hardware issues.

 

I had no clue there was software compatibility issues with x64 os's, that kinda sucks, I my self use programs like adobe photo shop, use to even do a little 3dsm. I don't think id be very happy if i get x64 os and find that a good portion of my software wont work. maybe i'll just have to try it out and see what works and what don't, I don't have xp pro x64 but i might be able to get a free copy.

 

The best advice I can give you Bio is to experiment.
Use a HDD that has no important data (picture, files etc) on it and play with it.
As long as you don't venture into BIOS and OC'ing the worst that can happen is you have to format and reinstall windows.
To be honest I'm not really knowledgable with 64bit OS's, I've treid XP64 a few times and found it to be a bit of a pain when it came to software, but many use it without issues.
Most major name software has a 64 bit version available, some are built with an option to install 64 or 32 bit and many 32bit progs work using the x86 install.

But to give you an example, when I last installed x64 I could not use my guitar hardware due to compatibility with the software, my wife couldn't use her design software for the same reasons.
BUT... the software we were trying to use is not really mainstream.

Best thing is to find out what you can and can't use before you install 64bit.

I would love to have Win7 64 so I can throw in some more ram, but thats the only reason and realistically speaking, my 3GB is doing fine, it' just bragging rights that I want :-D

Maybe someone who is more familiar with XP64 can give you more information.

 

I never save anything important on any of my pc's, so when ever i have to reformat, no loss, just the pain of having to reinstall everything. I think you were right about my Intel issue. But as for the x64 os's i think experimenting sounds like a plan, it's always been fun for me to get to play with my new hardware. I might have to get a new CD drive first, i might barrow one lol. Now that you mention it, i notice that a lot of the programs i use have the 32 and 64 option. x64 win 7 would be nice lol..
Bragging rights is always a good thing..

 

Bio, don't ever feel like you are wasting anyone's time when you ask for help.

I personally get almost as much enjoyment helping someone else as I do working on my own system.
Sometimes, it's even more fun, because it doesn't cost me anything and I can live vicariously through others.

Your project actually gave me the itch to do some fiddling around with my own system.

I just ordered a new video card, tv tuner and fan controller. My new video card is wimpy by almost all modern standards and merely a minor step up from onboard video, but nonetheless, still an upgrade.

In fact, in the last month, I got a new printer, monitor and speakers.

If wifey finds out what I've been spending on my toys, I'll be in the dog house for sure.

 

You can always go to Microsoft's site and run the Win 7 Upgrade Advisor. It'll tell you any problems you may have if you install it.

FWIW I've been running x64 Windows for 2 years now (Vista and 7) with no compatibility issues.

Sam

 

BFK makes a good point, if I thought or felt like you were wasting my time I wouldn't reply.
I enjoy helping people too, partly because I know whats it's like to be stuck and I've been helped a fair bit by people on here, just trying to give a little back.
And partly because I'm constantly learning, looking up specs and info to help me get someone answers is just me learning more and sharing, also flicking through sites like Newegg and AMD, Sapphire etc keeps me upto date with prices and new releases etc

 

lol yeah, my lady doesn't like when i spend money on hardware either..

 

Glad to hear you all don't mind helping lol. Cause I may have another problem / issue, I got bored and installed wow 10 day free trial and with the new build i had a big ego thinking id be able to play a game like wow of all things on higher settings; NOPE!! not happening, it lags and i can barley move, and even on lower mid settings the CPU usage looks kinda strange to me, one core is probably at 80 % while the other one is maybe 20 - 30 %. I don't know if this is a problem or not; Kinda disappointed though, I figured with my CPU, the 2gb of ram and 700mb On board, id be able to play wow with no problem; it's not a high end game at all..


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2764/50219426.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6939/10409148.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1032/45310103.jpg

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3166/20137359.jpg

 

Thats a little odd, what kind of internet connection do you have?
WOW is online yeah, so it's not only dependant on your PC specs but your connection too.
Pretty hard to tell from here but there's a difference between FPS lag and connection Lag.
They look very similar but there is a difference.

You certainly have enough to run it, no doubt about that.
Since you're getting lag at lower setting I would be looking more towards internet setup etc.
I'm not sure how WOW work to be honest because I've never played it, but forwarding ports in your router might help, this is more the kind of thing you would find on their website.
It's a shame you can't test it offline.

Turn settings to minimum and see what happens, then shove them to high and try to note the difference, realistically speaking there shouldn't be much difference, they should both run well, 20-25FPS at least.

http://majorgeeks.com/download3934.html

This should help in that little experiment.

 

I have a high speed cable, broadband internet, I'm lucky if i see 20 FPS when i play that game even on the lower setting, BUT there were two ppl playing it on the same connection, would of that caused the problem?? But then again i did consider that so i asked the other person if it was giving them problems too and they said no. Also When playing ava last night I was getting 80 - 90 FPS and that game is obviously way more high end than wow. I wont get 20 fps on high settings, no way lol.

 

Low: 40 - 45 sometimes 50 - 55
Fair: 19 - 30, the low points are really annoying cause it lags.
Good: 15 - 22 (Annoying)
High: 7 - 10 (unplayable)
Ultra: 4 - 5 (unplayable)

EDIT: I found something that I'm gonna check out: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3190959942&sid=1

 

Ok yeah it would seem like it's not utilizing your hardware correctly.
I would try the Patch first then move on to other options if it doesn't help.

Thats pretty poor on the WOW Dev department, multi cores have been around for quite a while now, although I know some games don't support them.

 

Hmm, Patch?? Lol. what, where? lmao. Oh Both cores were checked so I don't know whats going on. I hope it is just Wow and not something seriously wrong with my computer.

 

I don't know if you'll be able to access this page but check out what they had to say on the wow forums..

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=23425707130&postId=234234999771&sid=1#8

 

(Any idea why this guy linked me to this?? http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3755&p=2)​

Q u o t e:
Things change a bit when you go with a mainstream game.

You're a bit lucky as today's the release of the AMD 890 chipset series. Those contain derivatives of the 4200 so you get a lot of performance charts

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3755&p=2

still doesn't seem right that games graphically way better than wow run 100 times better.
Even the guys on majorgeeks forum who know there stuff when it comes to hardware say something seems REALLY odd about this. and they do know what there talking about when it comes to hardware.

 

Man guys on Game sites are arses.
Your GFX are onboard yes, it is not trash by any stretch.

On paper there is no reason you can't run that game on med-high settings and not get 25FPS +
Unless the site itself is lieing about requirements.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21085&categoryId=3720&rhtml=y

Shows the Radeon HD4000 series as supported.

I guess it simply boils down to poor requirements info.
I might have to check this out tomorrow because I'm curious now.

As for the patch, acording to the first link you posted there is an update patch.

 

yeah i don't get it my self, it's odd and funny at the same time that old games with better graphics run better than wow which has been around long enough.