church v. science

You had me up until the point where you quoted Poison....

 

I'm just going to sit here in this thread posting to myself while eating pancakes

 

Not believing in a personal God is not the same as not believing in a religion. I do believe that was the reason you posted this, to counter G.T.'s Einstein quote, no?

 

You think the reason I posted it was to posit that one must have a god to have a religion? Anyway, I wasn't countering G.T.'s quote so much as clarifying it. HTH

 

I fail to see where I said that.

I do see where I said that for clairification on what Einstein meant.

Maybe you are confused, when I said you posted it to counter G.T.'s quote.

At any rate, I fail to see how you clarified anything.

 

Well, let's walk through it slow-like then:

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"

"If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

Ergo
"Science, without the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it, is lame."

Based on those and other quotes of Einstein's I think this is what he meant. You're free to disagree. This is what I meant when I said I was clarifying. Does it make sense now?

 

No. It sounds like you are pasting two quotes together to come to your own conclusion.

But hey, to each their own

 

Perhaps some may thnk that way. You see...that`s one of the things that makes it so cool to be human. We can pick and choose what we believe in. Personally, trust in family, friends, and most people for that matter keep me going. Kind of a different sort of faith, but faith nonetheless.

 

and thats a good thing Sasquatch77. i will only add to that the #1 most important trust and that being trust in ones self. With that it is easy to trust others without fear of being robbed, screwed over , decieved and lied to.

 

I like smuckers raspberry syrup on my pancakes. I like that it has the little seeds in it....except when they get stuck in my teeth. I don't like that.

 

poison ,I quoted bill and ted from Bogus journey when they were tryin to get into heaven,If I'd have quoted poisen I would have posted this

"eevvveeeerrrrryyyy roossee hasss a thorn, dm de dm de dm just as eevveerry day has its daawn"

"just as eevveerry cowboy sings a saad sad song"

 

you're saying my wife is trying to kill me with her tofu flavored pancakes?

 

ROFLMAO

 

I dated a young woman when I was younger....she was extremely attractive and just loved me to death. She invited me to dinner one night...first time she was cooking for me...and she served<GASP> tofu. That was our last meal together lmao.

 

I think its funny how I incorporated pancakes into this thread. I had some yestarday. They were great. I put wheat germ and flaxseed in the pancake mix. mmmmmmmmmm healthy... the way God intended.

 

One of the arguments in favor of fundamentalism! Thou shalt not have rasberry seeds stuck in your teeth!

Well, not always. Microsoft comes to mind.

If we were all pre-programmed , we'd all respond pretty much the same to the same stimulus. That certainly isn't the case. Free will exists, and my mistakes are my own.

 

Hmmm,All very IMO the choices we make depend upon our need to feel happy,to be content and satisfied,someone who steels from a bank does so not neccessaraly because he is evil,but because for example money will buy his family a better life an in their happiness they will find happiness,normal people dont go around steeling from banks I for one dont because I still have nightmares of time I snook an extra few sweets in my bag at a local store ,if I stole from a bank I would have a nervous breakdown,my conscience would kill me,thats something I was born with I dont believe its my choice not to steel from a bank,I just cant.

This why I find it very hard to believe we are all born equal and we just choose to be good or evil

 

This is turning into Nature or nurture

 

Actually that's NOT something you're born with. Man has basically only one or two instincts. The instinct to swallow, and scientists debate of an instinctive fear of falling, IIRC. But that's about it. ALL other traits, values, prejudices, ethics, etc. are instilled by parents, society, peer groups.... by other people. And ocassionally by personal choice when we decide, for whatever reason, that what we've been taught is wrong.

Cannibalism is a perfect example. EVERYBODY know eating other people is wrong. Lots of people think this is instinct. It's not. Most of humanity has some cannibals in their background if you go back far enough, and a few backward tribes still practice it today. One of the native American tribes that Columbus found when he first came here practiced it. So it's certainly not instinctive. Likely nobody ever sat you down and told you that it's not NICE to eat your playmates when you were little. That ethic is ingrained by our society's horror and distaste for it, fairly subtly but very broadly.

Your distaste for robbing banks is a societal norm, instilled in you by others. Those that DO choose to rob banks grew up in the same society, so why do they make the choice to rob? They make the choice; it's not programmed.

Some people rise above their training, "programming" if you will, and live better than they were brought up. Others go the other direction. Freedom of choice.... free will.

Those of us that believe in God tend to make more ethical choices because of that, although some are much better at it than others. Those that do NOT believe in anything higher than themselves have less pressure to meet any specific standards, other than societal pressure, and some of THEM do very well. And some of them do spectacularly badly. Think of Jeffrey Daumer and cannibalism.

 

So who exactly were the "unecessarily evil individuals!!??" that were stricken with AIDS you were referring to? I think that's what everyone wants to know.

 

I dunno, I have never ever not known there was a God, since I was old enough to know such a thing. I hate religions too, your statement about that was like, "brother, is that you???" ... But to me, it's obvious as obvious gets that there is a God, and he tests people. Doesn't mean I don't curse Him constantly, or pretty much so, but I still believe he's there.

 

I kind of hold this belief, just not exactly. I still think there's freewill, just no punishment. Hell is the most ****ed up of all beliefs, to me. It's exactly how you say, God knows before He ever creates anybody where they would end up, if there was a dichotomy of where you could end up... so why would a loving God create you just to spend an eternity in Hell?

Think about it. The point of this thread is that the Bible says stuff that people take literally, when it should be taken metaphorically. Hell is just that. Think about what sends a person to Hell. The seven deadly sins. I don't know them all, and I'm not gonna look them up, but think about these.

Lust. As a person who is dealing with a pornography addiction, and has for a long time, I can tell you lust sux. When you look at porn, it takes over your brain. Your mind races with it, and you cannot get relief, except to quit looking at it, and letting it fade away in your mind.

Greed. You are not satisfied with what you have, always wanting more. Think of a person's mind who is greedy.

Envy.

Sloth. This one I don't get, exactly. I mean, I love to excersice, and feel like crap when I don't, but sloth is pretty good, to me... Just kidding, I kind of get where it's coming from.

Screw it, I looked them up.

Gluttony. I've had a food addiction, too, so this one I know. You are always eating, never satisfied.

Anger. Anyone who's ever hated anyone knows this one. It sux. Boils the blood.

Pride. Being too proud to admit you need help? Vanity, same thing? It always catches up with you.

So think about the effects of these. It puts you in a hellish place while on this earth, hell is just a made up fantasy, when really it happens NOW.

 

And BTW, you people are heathens, as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.perkinsrestaurants.com/images/menu/frenchtoast.jpg

Behold, the One True Breakfast.

 

Obvious as obvious gets? Waitaminnet. I was baptized a Catholic and it`s not obvious to me. I`ll not belittle anyone`s belief in a so-called divine entity. I just have a HUGE problem with a so-called GOD that lets people murder innocents or tell people where thier money should go in the name of thier "GOD" . Goodness, lets ditch religion and just be good for the sake of being good. Wait....then you wouldn`t be able to hurt/harm/murder innocents. Apparently "GOD" thought it was ok too for that pontiff in Arizona to grip and grope in confession. Oh Yeah apparently "God" thought it was ok for the parish in Rochester NY to disbar the church that withheld thier tithe(even though they did so to protest the ordainment of a gay priest...waitaminnet I thought priests were supposed to be celibate(BIGJOKE)even though the church that was kicked from the parish was 100 years older in place than the parish. BIG confrontation when the Episcopalian Parish that came in tried to collect the tithe that they just assumed was owed them because they were the "Parish" . If there is a "GOD"... good for HIM for giving those folk the courage to stand up to the so called authorities. Religion....what a joke. Faith inpeople, faith in human nature...maybe ok...but it seems such a good example of why the seperation of Religion and State is such an important part of life in general...

 

No more religious threads or replies from me

In that it infuriates me to see that so-called "righteous" people hide behind thier religion to defend oppression, torture and murder...it`s become apparent to me that I cannot rationally discuss religion in this sort of forum. Also, pedophilia, and sexual preferences by so-called celibate members of the clergy is defended as human nature. In that I`ve given this a fair amount of thought, and fought down a fair amount of frustration brought on by so-called righteous people...I`ll no longer discuss religeous topics here. It amuses me that I`m pretty much an agnostic...but a firm believer in the golden rule yet I see so many what you may call pious people so full of s**t. Seems to me that ignoring that kind of hypocrisy will allow me to sleep better.

 

Threads have been merged and I do believe this topic as a whole has gone far enough. There is no right or wrong answer and everyone is entitled to their belief's and to have those individual beliefs respected within this forum.

No more political or religious threads for a while..ok folks?

Thanks

AbbySue