Curbing binge drinking...

Binge drinking, particularly with our youth is a major concern.

Politicians are on a binge drinking education campaign, by highlighting the dangers of binge drinking and seeking action to tackle alcohol abuse, which is seen as being out of control, particularly with young adults (ie under 21yrs).

As a consequence, there are discussions if our pub (hotel) opening hours be cut to address binge drinking. That is, using the same approach of restrictions to alcohol as that applied to smoking and being sun smart.

Smoking restrictions in work and public areas appears to have dramatically cut back on the number of smokers (though I'ld need statistics to confirm that).

Are we sun smart now (to avoid sun cancer)? Nope, lots of bikini clad gals on our beaches...fashion rules.

So can binge drinking successfully be curbed if restrictions are applied?

 

I doubt it as it's the 'cool' thing to do it seems. I've done more than my share of drinking over the years but nothing even close to what these kids do on a regular basis! What fun is it to pass out puking into a toilet at eye level? I don't get it. Give them a joint instead.

 

Oh, augie...that's something else they are trying to curb! (What am I going to do with you?!)

 

The thing that bugs me about the whole "binge drinking" thing is that they define it as having three or more drinks in an evening. Um...ever been to a bar? Maybe a hockey game? According to them (whoever "they" are), I regularly binge drink. rolleyes

I get that there's a problem, but I highly doubt it's as widespread as they claim it is with that incredibly narrow definition. Basically what they're saying is anyone who drinks is a binge drinker. And really...when have high school and college kids NOT drunk themselves sick on weekends? It's not like it's a new thing, we're just having a huge thing about it now because the parents of those kids became conservative when they grew up. They were worse than their kids when they were their age, for the most part.

 

Disagree with you there Tibbs, because I don't see you as being classed a binge drinker.

When these people binge, they go from not drinking at all, to drinking in excess. That is what we class as binge drinking.

It's particularly visible around beaches areas that are full of pubs (hotels). At these popular haunts, young people are seen "legless", and/or asleep and/or throwing up in parks and beaches. Popular beach areas have police patrols, particularly Friday through the weekends which keeps order.

With binge drinking are incidents of rapes/sexual abuse (young girls are so out of it, they become easy targets), fights break out (most the time, they don't know what it's about anyway), and there has been serious damage to persons and property. These are the main reasons why binge drinking is such a concern.

 

I'm going to have to be careful here as I don't want to give a wrong impression. I hate seeing anyone have to alter their state of consciousness to have 'fun'. I've been there and done that and pot is a much less hurtful substance compared to alcohol, the liquor often brings out the bad in people but the way these kids do it, they bypass the bad part and go on to stupid and near dead part from alcohol poisoning.

I guess your legal drinking age is 18 but upping that or reducing pub hours is not going to change that fact. They'll find a way as they always do or I did. As long as it's 'cool' and anti-establishment then they'll continue. Just begs the question, how much pain are you willing to endure to drink like an alcoholic who doesn't get hangovers?

I wish I could express myself as well as you do legalsuit, I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

 

I Gov is hilarious where this is concerned They are constantly having debates about binge drinking,the dangers,health problems,strain on Police,strain on hospital ER at weekends ect.

THEN they extend licensing laws so we can drink all through the night! Oh and now they are discussing this new ingenious plan now to curb binge drinking,drastically increase the tax on alcohol so people can't afford to binge drink

Did I mention we already have some of the highest alcohol tax in the EU:confused Now people are gonna have all the same problems and be broke too.

http://www.renegadecopymonthly.com/images/smiley_money.png

 

Understand exactly where you're coming from...I've had/have my share of good times and parties (though I've only ever been "legless" once in my whole life that taught me a lesson and am now an occasional 2 drink limiter since to enjoy my times)

Unfortunately, it often is a combination of pot and/or alcohol and sometimes, with the more foolish, drugs thrown in. Alcohol is the more accessible and of great concern, and like you said, kids work out means to get it.

Education in my view would be the key. Personally, I would go for scare tactics of what can happen/types of possible futures (along the same lines as having kids meet hard core criminals in gaols who scare them enough to understand consequences to avoid crime). Some might think that too heavy.

 

A lot of binge drinking happens at home, before "they" go to clubs, pubs, or wherever due to the excessive costs of drinks at those venues.

Also a lot of binge drinking happens at private parties.

Both of which the government cannot legislate against.

I think this is mainly a feel good exercise by the government to show voters that the government is seen to be doing something.

We (in OZ) probably do have too many hotels and bottleshops but heavy drinkers will get their grog from somewhere no matter what restrictions the government brings in.

Witness the slygrog running into Aboriginal communities, and the migration of alcoholics to the nearest town, or city, away from where the Alcohol Management Laws (read Prohibition) have been put into effect. Bazza

 

Binge drinking will never be curbed. The more rules and regulations put in place to stop it, the more it will be driven underground.
No smoking in pubs is bad enough, but now they want to stop binge drinking.
Its just part of the social scene here, has been for 100's of years.
Educate who? The kids or the parents?

IMO

 

As Rikky said in the UK they are talking about pushing the price up with taxes but i don't think that will curb the heavy drinkers, Solange can probably confirm the taxes in Sweden are astronomical but there are still some serious drinkers.

binge drinking is a phenomenon that has evolved from HAPPY HOUR where young revelers get as much alcohol inside them as possible in the shortest possible time.

the fact that young people have a lot of cash in there pockets does not help but thats a product of the affluent society in which we live? (would anyone go back to the 30s)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5861/nodrinkingsigntf2.jpg

 

Tax increases will do little to discourage, same as increases on tobacco...even the powerful photos showing cancerous body parts on cigarette packs weren't deterrents. Like you said, people will still have same problem, and now be broke.

 

True points Bazza. I still reckon an educational approach to try getting the message out, and some form of support to make it all happen...tough to get education out to target groups, but perhaps it has more of a chance to at least get the young adults attention(?)!

I wonder how effective an education strategy would be that pulled in community service with groups that deal with alcoholics (eg St Vincent De Paul's Society - street beat - where you actually hit the streets to interact with alcoholics or work with them at Matthew Talbot's Hostel or Mission Beat, similar, but you also interact with them at the Mother House).

I reckon being at such close range to people who have suffered the effects and consequences of alcoholism/drugs and particularly those who reached such a low point in life, would be an eye opener for them. I've actually dealt with these organisations, and pardon the pun, but it is a pretty sobering experience - particularly for those affected. Many become volunteer workers.

Alternatively, awareness of how vulnerable drunk people can be (even if they are partying at home or at some one's private residence)...there are a lot of sexual and physical assault cases that are growing concerns, because not only the females are victims.

Binge drinking to excess that gets one to such a vulnerable stage is an added concern to the health aspect.

 

I have to agree with you re how effective rules and regulations would be.

As for education, I reckon there should be an education strategy that caters for different situations and all age groups. Parents can also binge drink, and if they don't, then they can perhaps make their kids aware of the dangers, which doesn't stop at affecting one's health.

I'm all for "scare" type tactics as part of the education. For example, women nowadays are careful as to what strangers handle their drinks due to many cases of them waking up later and knowing something untoward had occurred. So, perhaps it could be a step further to highlight the risk and dangers of being vulnerable through binge drinking when not in a sober state.

BILLMCC66 pointed out "Happy Hours" encouraging binge drinking, but it isn't only young adults that these cater to. A walk around our CBD particularly on Thursday and Friday nights shows a broad range of people of all ages and all walks of life, relaxing after work with their friends over a few drinks. Most then go home to their partners, it is the singles who stay on, and not necessarily the young ones either.

 

Education is the key.

Something that needs mentioned here though, it is almost impossible to OD on pot. You might die of lung cancer, but that is another story.

Pot, however, supresses nausia. This is one of the things that make it so good as a supliment for chemotherapy. With alcohol however, the conciquences can be deadly. Usually when you OD on booze you get sick and throw up, which is self limiting. If you've been atoking however, you can keep it down. A lot of people have died from the combination that wouldn't have otherwise.

 

Though I have not drank heavily in a number of years I can remember the days of drinking as quickly as possible to get the buzz and then realizing too late that I had crossed a barrier I wish I hadn't. Took a long time to learn a lesson. I have been legless on numerous occasions, up into my thirties, and looking back feel a fool because of it. I think that youth will drink one way or another, just as they will smoke pot (which I do not have a problem with in adults), and do all sorts of things that are potentially bad for them. The only way to really curb the abuse of alcohol, IMO, is to educate parents and to have parents be more responsible and active in their children's lives. When that child is out binge drinking, where is their parent or guardian? I understand giving them some freedom to grow but most of us have been there and done that and should have enough common sense to realize when our children are on the same path. Not much has changed with regards to where and when kids do these things so it should be relatively easy for a parent or guardian to deter the problem from starting, and ending it quickly once discovered. Just my two bits on the subject.

 

True, but according to the official definition, and the people who are included in the statistics, I am. So are a lot of people who would never have guessed it. Simply having more than three drinks in an evening, or more than one drink an hour, classifies you as a binge drinker.

And as I said, and as someone else has mentioned, this is NOT a new problem, it's been going on for decades. It's just that now we've narrowly defined it, and with 24/7 news channels they have to have some drama to report, so we hear about it a lot more. Of course you see it more around places where there are pubs/bars, and of course it happens on weekends. That would be where and when most drinking occurs, binge or not.

I know what you're saying...personally, I would also classify binge drinking as slamming as many drinks as possible in the shortest amount of time to get as drunk as possible before getting sick and/or passing out. But that's not the official definition, nor is it the only thing included in the numbers when they are bandied about when discussing this "epidemic".

I know it's a problem, but I maintain it is no more a problem than it ever was, and quite honestly I've not run across a teen or college-age boy who after drinking so much he threw up was capable of raping anyone. Which is not to say it can't happen, but I would bet my next paycheck that those issues are related to drugs rather than alcohol.

 

I'm all for education...however it's delivered, I reckon it should be a strong message, to avoid those sad possibilities if ignored.

 

Agreed...Problem has been going on for decades, but it is evidently more on the increase now which has given it focus...it doesn't have to be 24/7 news but rather personal observations by the general public that gives it the focus...self and others have also seen this on the rise.

For example, it is customary for our school leavers to head up to our Surfers Paradise on our Gold Coast (up North in Queensland), which is invaded at year end, to celebrate finishing school. This is a very old tradition, which now is dreaded by residents. I used to regularly visit friends there at the same time of year and through personal observation, it now is totally out of hand. As a need, the area has police mobiles stationed there 24/7. This never used to be the case.

As for the rapes and sexual assaults, the drunken persons are the victims and not the offenders. Hence the concerns.

 

Solid points, in particular since there appears to be more freedom given nowadays.

 

Every country in the world has some kind of mood altering concoction, even in the remote jungles where they chew a root and spit it into a pot where others drink it to get a buzz. Oh lord, now I'm gaging.
Anyway, it's a passage into adulthood, liquid courage, an escape from the norm.
Even more of a problem (here at least) is speed, meth, crank whatever it's called. It's an epidemic.
Have to go with augie and Bill, the safest thing you can imbibe is pot, (marijuana).

 

Hey. Wait for me guys.

 

Alcohol vs marijuana is an old argument.

Alcohol and marijuana both produce effects on the brain. So rather than educating the public, is the argument here to instead encourage the use of a "drug" weed like marijuana instead of alcohol?

What about the dangers such as those who start with pot can then go onto harder drugs? I've had a couple of friends who went from pot to harder drugs...seen same cases with persons at our rehab centres. So there is evidence of the probability of this occurring, when one just first started on pot.

 

I believe thats the nature of the person rather than the drug. Perhaps they move on to harder drugs because marijuana is the mildest of anything you can take and they were looking for more of a mind numbing experience.

 

Pot can't be taxed so it will never be legalized,moving on theres only two parts to this problem if there is indeed a problem

1.stop people getting alcohol

2.persuade them to drink less

Two is impossible IMO after a few drinks everyone thinks "Its party time!" and start knocking all sorts of concoctions back even if they planned to go easy alcohol lowers will power too much.

The only way to stop people getting alcohol at bars anyway would be to have some kind of drinker valeting system where the bar staff discourage heavy drinkers maybe each patron has a card they must swipe each time they purchase a drink and when a certain limit is reached they are cut off?

This will never happen though because it imposes too much on freedom and the Gov will lose too much revenue.

 

Being It is the only legal drug (alcohol) people are going to get as screwed up as they can with no guilt.

 

Lots of alcohol commercials on TV also associating liquor with fun.

 

@ STEVE i find you make a very cohesive argument, i grew up in the 50s and 60s where we socialized with all ages and genders and if you had a little too much drink the landlord would suggest that you go home and sleep it off which normally we did without argument also a familiar site in the pubs were police on foot patrol but that has all disappeared.

today the young have no social skills that allow them to integrate with society they only see the material things in life.

to be fair it's not entirely their fault materialism has been a fact of life for a while.

here in Belgium the drinking laws are very liberal in fact some would say non existent,you can drink in bars at 16 and the penalty for driving under the influence of alcohol is 14 to 21 days loss of you driver permit but for some reason we do not have the binge drinking that occurs in other parts of the world and yet just over the border in Holland (where pot is legal) drunkenness is a really big problem which makes it very hard to generalize.

 

Reminded me Bill, back in the 50's 60's the police would pick up pop (not mine, pop in general) up off the sidewalk and take em home. Can you imagine that happening today? You can get arrested for drunk driving even if your in the back seat asleep as long as your keys are accessible. (the old just in case law)

 

That is terrible, worse is the family of the victim drinking a toast outside the court.

 

i believe that to be the case in the UK as well,if you leave your keys outside your ok but if they are in the auto your in the :crap.

here in Belgium i am not sure but i doubt it as the penalty for drink driving is so trivial.

in the 60s (about 61 i was 14 at the time and our local cop caught me smoking he promptly gave me a thick ear if that were to happen today the cop would face charges (how the world has changed) thats progress.

 

No,I didn't,cannabis can't be taxed because of the amount you need to reach the desired effect,sure legal cannabis bought in shops will be taxed but considering a small block can last a year compared to the crates and crates and multiple trips to the store to buy alcohol,its obvious the potential revenue and loss to the alcohol industry as a whole will be huge and who will buy it from the shop if its legal?Everyone will be growing their own with minimal effort compared to brewing your own alcohol and again only a few plants would last for an entire year.

I'm not going to argue this any further with you its not the thread for it,cannabis is/will be hard to tax like alcohol or tobacco,its a fact,Google it

Wrong!Binge drinking has been going on steadily for the last one hundred years,in England in the 1900's thats all they didThey finish at the the factory and go to the pub and drink 12 pints and stumble home, lads as young as twelve,ever notice how theres a pub on every corner in England?They didn't go there for the atmosphere they were getting hammered,also I have a lot of older friends and they tell me exactly the opposite,around the 60's and 70's it was crazy the things they got up to,especially with the hippy movement every night was a party not just weekends,ever heard the phrase if you remember 60's you wern't there?This is mainly due to alcohol the most abundantly available legal drug.

It may be only lately that it has made the news,mainly because of undisciplined yobs running around causing damage to places but that doesn't change the fact that binge drinking has been part of British life for a long time.

The slumps you see in the middle are caused by WW1 and WW2,if anything we are still have some catching up to do to our Ancestors,better get the drinks in!

 

I don't know just how binge drinking nowadays compares to overseas drinking 10, 20+ whatever, years ago, but here, it definitely is on a dramatic rise.

This is not just a personal opinion and that of my friends through personal observations (per my earlier examples posted re "Schoolies" at year end celebrations in Queensland, and after work gatherings in the CBD), but publicans and police confirm it is a greater problem nowadays to years ago.

Police are all the more concerned with those under 18s to a point where they are actually giving "education" in schools (which I personally don't think is effective enough - needs a better strategy)

Where there was never a need for police patrols or stationed mobiles for certain areas, now is the norm. That in itself is evidence of a different trend in drinking, without even considering the rise in number of persons under the influence after a night of binge drinking.

 

With all due respect Steve, may I request you consider your wording before posting a response...this thread isn't intended to turn into a flaming war.

I started the thread as a genuine concern of what is happening and am interested in views and opinions that maintain civility and respect in responses towards each person who posts.

Cheers

LS

 

Let's return back to topic so I don't have to take all the balls (and bottles) away and close the pub early or issue any ASBO's

Good discussion.....

 

Okay, so how do you think this type of problem can be handled...personally, I would go for an strong education strategy.

 

I think the rise population densities play a big role, during the weekend everyone flocks to the Towns and city's which has been the norm near me for the last few decades but now theres just lots more people and obviously when you have huge numbers of people from different areas crammed into a small area it brings rise to conflict,I don't go out much anymore but quite a few people I know say you just can't move,two guys rubbing shoulders all it takes to start a riot then throw in alcohol and its a time bomb.

Maybe as another solution they could limit how many people are allowed in and around the city centers,again I'm sure how it can be implemented.

 

What is the legal drinking age down under?

 

I used to get drunk all the time :cry but now im married :drool and we only drink 1 or 2 days a week we have enough for are limits are we binge drinkers who cares i blame the UK way back in the olden days to prevent bugs from water the chinese used to boil their water we brits made beer to sterilise I BLAME THE SYSTEM Hic

 

18years. IDs are requirements here too...no one gets away with fakes either.

 

In our CBD districts and generally other areas, binge drinking isn't limited to the young. So there is a mix of young and older persons.

The venues with dancing and drinking that cater more for 18yrs to late 20s usually have security/bouncers who keep a watchful eye out as do bartenders and in accordance with law, refuse alcohol to anyone already too inebriated. Unfortunately, not all same type venues follow same ethics.

Some aspects already in force:

• Employers do have things in place for staff who have drinking problems. Outreach sources do involve employers and community groups quite effectively. As a matter of fact, many university faculties (eg law, etc) include clinical involvement as part of a student's elective. So in this respect, education is reaching youth in a most effective manner.
• Mainly larger companies proudly boast community efforts and works with community groups
• "'youth' only business models" depend on the locality of venues.
• Govt ban on alcohol advertising is already in force on certain products that contain alcohol where advertising is directed to the young (can't think of specific brands).

TV shows such as "a Current Affairs" here air incidents captured from security cams as a shame exercise.

Beaming on public buildings takes on a different aspect. It becomes a complex exercise for approval/permission/allowance from/according to private enterprises who own buildings/local council/State Govt/Statute provisions.

I do agree "*real* public pressure" is required, but difficult because of harassment issues that can be raised by the actual culprits. Alternatively, if criminal charges laid against culprits, then pressure as well as public pressure can be applied.

 

It was divided in the US a few years back. Some states were 21 others 18 I believe one was even 17. It's all very odd too considering there are dry states and counties, (no liquor) at all.
Then the government suggested all the states use the same age (21) or risk loosing funds.

 

Athough binge drinking can cause organ failure, brain damage and death, it's not a message that youthful offenders can relate to. Youth, from all socio-economic and cultural groups, feel somewhat immune to death and damage, but none are immune from insult and ridicule. Therefore, the consequences of their binge drinking should be legislated insult and ridicule. A few tweaks to the Criminal Justice system, could have public displays of binge-drinking rewarded by a time-indeterminate stay at a drunk tank. That's colloquial for a local jail cell that is usually vomit and urine soaked and very unsanitary. The conditions for release - simply clean the cell until it's antiseptic. This is then video-taped for possible release to the Internet for repeat offenders. Hardened criminals would love to have their cells cleaned by some punk kid - kids would hate the humility of it. Public binge drinking would soon lose it's cachet after a few doses of humility.

 

I really don't see population and densities as being the cause. but rather a change in trend.

Over the years, I have worked in many areas including interstate that were in CBDs or outer city areas. Using Sydney as a good base and example, CBD area for after work gathering has been common for years, but mainly in restaurants. Consequently, hotels started opening up restaurant/ upgrading eating areas in competition to attract clients. Having worked in Sydney's CBD, Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights were pleasant experiences.

Now, there appears to be more emphasis on "water holes" where there are the most crowds, rather than gatherings at restaurants. These "watering places" are not as enjoyable when you have to shout for conversation, and people don't appear to know what or how to apply the "drinking bar standard".

 

Your suggestion here is in line with the type of message conveyed on cigarette packs and TV commercials for the dangers of cigarette smoking. It does have some merit...though I've noticed it takes a long time to work as a deterrent for long term smokers.

And it is true that youth do "feel somewhat immune to death and damage", and your latter comment: "but none are immune from insult and ridicule." could be the tactical approach - but with some care so as not to impinge on legalities.

Ridicule from peers in my opinion is probably the strongest strategy - just to find an effective approach.

Changes to the criminal justice system goes under extensive reviews prior to approval and implementation. Your suggestion here goes against human rights provisions so wouldn't even be considered.

Any person charged may be placed in detention cell - and again in accordance with legal provisions, the cells are in a sanitary condition. Detention also depends on a person's age. An under age person cannot be detained.

However, you are hitting on the right chords as far as giving culprits a nasty taste.

For the 18+ year olds, I'ld be inclined to have these culprits do some community service work such as that done by our Mission Beat...have them pound the footpath late at night with volunteers seeking out, meeting and dealing with alcoholic derelicts, and helping out at the Mother House with these derelicts (which includes showering those brought off the street before putting them to bed). Now that's an eye opener to see how low these poor souls have fallen.

 

The advertising you speak of sounds negligent, irresponsible and illegal...I'm surprised it is allowed.

Not sure of our statistics, but I do not believe to be as high as what you've stated. Though we do have the same instances here...and again, this is a new trend occurring in hospitals that didn't occur and with such regularity before.

I agree that education needs to include such levels as teachers, carers and parents and implemented at an early age to ensure its influence is sufficiently deeply rooted.

 

Incarcerating 'kids' in unsanitary cells wasn't the idea. Having them clean the unsanitary cells, seemed to be something that could work. It's worthwhile to try to save the saveable, by any means necessary. That's why there are 'Automobile Seat-belt Laws', which have been implemented and consequently challenged on human rights grounds. All challenges have failed. Both the lawmakers and I think, that saving humans, should trump 'human rights' every time.

 

I hold my hands up and state I am over 35yrs old and go out Binge drinking around 6 times a year. Commonly known as going on a 'Bender'; go to pub at 11am with mates and have only one thing on our minds, to drink as much as we can and enjoy ourselves
Its a deep rooted culture thing to prove that you can 'hold' more drink than your friends can. Who can stay upright the longest! Around 5pm, time to shout for Hughie,uke and with stomachs empty get some fish and chips then start drinking again until you cannot physically drink anymore. This goes on until you cannot remember anything Funny enough we all somehow manage to get home or wake outside the door .
My dad, grandad,great grandad, etc did this and all my mates families did it. It is sort of passed down the line.
I am old enough to know about the damage that I am doing to my body, but that is my choice and it is something I enjoy.

When binge drinking involves youngsters aged under 18, then I believe that they do not know about the danger and damages that they are inflicting on themselves; this is where it can be dangerous.
If you tell a 14 year old not to binge drink, they will probably go ahead and do it because thats what most teenagers do. They want to be part of the 'in-crowd' and will experiment anyway.

Well thats my opinion on the subject anyways

 

and I was going to ask you for a loan of your liver roflmao

G

 

Unfortunately peer pressure can be an unforgiving enforcer to encourage drinking.

Thankfully you don't drink like that now, because you don't have anything to prove to anyone. Nothing wrong with drinking, so long as it is done in moderation.