Do drug laws work?

There is a lot of debate about how useful drug prohibition is. I've always wondered how much effect it has on a person's choice of using or abstaining. It's time to find out.

 

alaska this week is voting on if you can grow and have marrijuana


i also think the jails are way to full of non violent crime people. where as the killers are being set free earlier than anyone with a drug offence that is wronge

 

do a google search for Victimless Crime, you will get many peoples opinions.

 

Personally I think that "safe" drugs (i.e. drugs that are less harmful than currently legal ones) should be legal.

I don't see why beer is legal and weed isn't, to be honest. If weed was legal, do you think you would have the same issues with liver problems, people having to go to hospital because of drunken fights, etc.? I don't know, but I have a feeling the effect wouldn't be the same.

The problem would be regulating it. Really, all drugs should be regulated in some way, IMO. People going to bars night after night getting plastered is not a good thing, and it seems to be built into our culture now. More casualties are caused by this than by the taking of marijuana. The fact that its illegal simply forces the market for it underground, and so you end up with a load of people being shifty trying to avoid the police.

 

I've only ever been completley drunk twice, ever. And that was on spirits. NOT going there again.... ever. I've matured since then, I know my limits. It's legal for me to drink over here on private propertly, I just can't buy it myself.

I don't drink to get drunk, like a large percentage of the country does. I drink because I happen to like the taste of beer (surprising, I know!), and because getting the right ammount of alcohol in your system does calm you down and make you feel relaxed (actually, scientifically it doesn't, it actually makes your brain activity faster, but you feel calmer. Once you are near the threshold for drinking in a frame of about 5 hours, then you start to actually relax).

No doubt, taking any drug is a risk, but then so is walking across the road.

 

Drug laws do not work, obviously.

There are enough things on my mind to cause short circuits without the added effects of various drugs. Caffeine is my drug of choice.

Keep Clear !!

 

If your a drug dealer.

Steve

 

not true
only if you don't get cought. then they work
once you get cought then your fked manditory minimums come into play
trust me if you have read the thread about caning a sports player using drugs you will read this.

not to mention you will not get a student loan with any kind of drug offence
like possesion or paraphanalia ( bad spelling )even if it a gross missdemmeanor

 

Oh, it's true. Most drug dealers do not get caught, it is people like your friend who get caught and pay the price of current drug laws.

An actual drug dealer could care less about qualifying for a student loan or a credit check, etc.

When did we cane a sports player for using drugs? NBA?

I know what you are saying but I don't think current drug laws work like people expect them to work. I think they are designed to get the users, not the suppliers.

Steve

 

the caning link

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=46131

 

like Slider

 

I know many people who use or have used cocaine, meth, herion, crack, opium, pcp, acid,etc. .and yes they are or where extremly messed up, not all right in the head.
I have known and do know dealers(not proud of it, just a fact)
the biggest reason they dont get caught is because all the little ones(dealers) disappear *poof* just gone, they get in too deep and piss off the wrong people. .and those people have enough money to stay out of trouble
i.e. using the little guys to do the actual work, pay off cops, really goo lawers, etc.
marijuana, though not as severe, also has "users" that are completly usless
not all pot smokers devote their lives to the drug as others do to others(forementioned).
alcohol is "safe" in moderation that is why it is legal
weed, probably "safer" than alcohol in moderation is not
it is an odd question yes, but it is still the law

vicodin, valum, xanax and other perscribed medication are abused enough by those who get them legally. . .and those can be bought on the street
over the counter drugs are abused as well, caffine pills , ephidrine, minithins. . . "speeders"
they made ephedra illigel because of the abuse that killed many people

the fact is, is that people do not like to be controled. .in any way what so ever. .but if anything where legal than society will be worse off
people stay away from such things because they are illegal and are told why they are(the death and cancer blah)

then again if the stuff was legal. . it sure would be cheaper. . lol

watched a friend freak out on acid, had friends od on many things
I smoked a joint once in HS. .puked all over the place. .that was enough for me
I never drank till I got married. . lol
I will have one ore two drinks a month

but coffee(caffine) is the drink of the gods
and after a few pots. . .I glow with the thunder of Zeus

(then pee alot)

 

Do drug laws work? Yes and no. Everybody points to prohibition in the 20s and violation of it as "not working". While prohibition obviously did NOT stop everybody from drinking, incidences of cirrhosis of the liver, which is directly attributable to alcohol consumption, WAS markedly lower during the period affected by the prohibition, indicating that while it did not stop drinking, it significantly reduced it. No doubt, the current drug laws similarly discourage some, but not all drug use.

However, the side effects of prohibition are also the same in both time periods. Those that SERIOUSLY wanted to drink, got it illegally. Which caused some deaths due to wood alcohol in poorly made booze, much like the death and disease caused by poorly made unregulated drugs now. (A heroin addict using medical grade heroin can lead a fairly healthy life, unlike the wretches that get theirs on the streets here and share dirty needles.) Prohibition made the Mafia into a nightmare, much like drugs have turned gangs into today's monsters, and the crime and death from that is worse than that caused by the booze/drugs themselves. Doubly worse, as most of the victims of crime are innocent bystanders not just those that chose to throw their lives in the toilet.

Our "War On Drugs" has cost billions in money, has caused us to throw away some of the rights and privacy that citizens here formerly took for granted. "Asset forfeiture" is now big business for a lot of law enforcement agencies, even though the Constitution STILL says that property cannot be confiscated without a trial. "No knock searches" (a polite euphimism for kicking someone's door down & rushing in with guns drawn) are common from coast to coast. And drugs today are cheaper and more widely available than when we started the "war". Plus since drug busts are now moneymakers, police agencies are more likely to focus on those, at the expense of other types of crime. And our prisons ARE overcrowded with non-violent drug offenders, causing a revolving door policy with really dangerous criminals, causing MORE crime on the street. The war is over; we lost. Badly.

Marijuana IS a gateway drug over here, for 2 reasons. First, a lot of the drug dealers lace it with hard drugs to move their customers to more dangerous and more expensive drugs. Just good business, right? Second, the segment of society that condones breaking the law to get high is encouraging lawbreaking in general. Once you get used to treating the law as optional, you're less likely to follow other laws that you find inconvenient or distasteful. This has an overall degrading effect on ALL law. And once you get busted for pot and thrown in with real criminals, and have a permanent record that can and does impact getting a decent job, and lose what you DID have, you're halfway down to road to ruin. The worse things get the more likely you are to turn to something stronger to ease the pain.

That obviously doesn't happen in all cases, but it happens a LOT.

Memphis Tennessee, in the "Heartland", and the "Bible Belt" was invaded the the Crypts, Bloods, Disciples, etc. some years ago. Today they own the damned city. (And "damned city" isn't swearing, it's a clinical description.) Drug related shootings and crime in general is one of the highest in the nation. Mainly thanks to the drug fueled gangs. I don't like what drugs do to people. But the gang/crime environment that our war on drugs has created is far worse than what the drugs themselves do.

 

In respect to the poll.... then no, I wouldnt experiment. Why? Because all the drugs I've wanted to experiment with... i already have, lol, and any others have risks that outweigh the benefits.

In any case, tobacco could be seen as a gateway drug, just.... legal.

Making the drugs more illegal, more difficult to get, just makes them more expensive. More people are going to be attracted to distributing them, because of the amount of money that is on offer. If the government regulated the trade, they would have huge amounts of money coming in. But on the other hand, do we want another gov't sanctioned method of altering our consciousness? Alchoholics are pretty sad, and ultimately it depends on whether you see as drugs are a detriment to society or something that is a benefit.

 

kind of different for me as some drugs are allowed here.
and I'd have to say, yes, they work, but not in the way you mean it.
people know what drugs do and how bad they are for you, mainly because of the coffeeshops (which sell the "legal" drugs) also do a good deal of letting people know what the drugs do to you etc.

hard drugs such as xtc, speed etc, are drugs of which you are allowed to have something of 0.5grams or 1.5grams of, don't know the exact number, without being penalized.
we also have drugbuses which test the quality of your drugs, whether or not they're legal, so you know what you have and whether you can use them without more risk than normal.

the only downside I see is that because the allowed softdrugs can only be bought by people that are 18 or older, more and more younger people (from as young as 14) are finding ways to get them.
which is sad, when you're 14 you shouldn't be using drugs and as such I'm not the one getting them those drugs and feel punishments for such dealers should be increased and the police should actually do something about them.
I know how it works and I know the police doesn't actually use their mind, because you can stash your supply in the bushes and they won't check those bushes, whether or not they saw you stash it there doesn't matter.

however, drug use has gone down somewhat from when it wasn't allowed and that's a good thing.
we shall just leave the - sometimes - insane amount of THC in the dutch weed and hash out of consideration.

the gov't also has special programs for those seriously addicted to heroïn or the like, so they can get off it in a controlled way and work at the same time, so drugs related crime in the cities where those programs have been in use (they've largely been cancelled because of a like of junkies who seriously wanted to get off and only abused the programs) did go down.

on the whole I'd say it's better to legalize it, as you get benefits that by far outweigh the cons.
you, as a gov't, now have reliable stats as to how much drugs is being used ánd you cut the drugs related crime down by a margin ánd you get income from the taxes you get from the sales of drugs.
and usually, when you're allowed to do something, it's suddenly a whole lot less exciting to do then when you're not allowed to do it.

 

Basic business and marketing principles. Completley dishonest and anti-social, but business principles nonetheless.

• Where there is demand and no supply, one can stand to make a lot of money.

• If you want your customers to buy more expensive products, give them a reason to.

 

by the way, do you guys in the US really get penalised for having 'drug related paraphenalia'? it's easy enough to get over here, theres an 'alternative' store with a back room full of it pretty close to goldy and I

^^;ruby moon

Thats basically what it's about... but i doesnt actually act as much of a shop.

 

Ahh, Ruby Moon is a cool shop, quite appart from the back room. It's got some cool stuff in there, and a ridiculously large selection of insence (I have no idea how to spell it, but it's smelly stuff wot u burn), jewelry and other such things.

But their website? It should be eaten alive by the W3C. I might make an offer to rebuild it

 

YES we do.
i have gotten 3 tickets for having a glass pipe ( 3 different times )

first ticket=105$ fine
second ticket=150$ fine ( they found 1.5 grams of weed also )
third ticket= 105$ fine

 

In regards to whether drug laws really work, you bet they do.

They work for responsible, law abiding citizens.

As for people who do drugs illegally, the laws are irrelevant.

Those same people have no respect for the law, and as such would break other laws if it was to their advantage or convenient.

 

Omg, so you're not even allowed to have a PIPE?? that sucking finks!

Adryn - so you're saying that the laws are actually counter effective? I agree

 

Well, they sell pipes here, in stores, no less.

You can be ticketted?

As for laws being counter-effective--only for those of society who have no respect for authority or think they are better than everyone else that laws don't apply to them.

 

Those people with no respect being the people that should be suffering the punishment, but since they don't respect the law they get away with it anyway.

 

Good point.

So I guess the answer is, no they don't work, because people are not punished severely enough

 

As usual, GT sums things up quite well. Drug laws as written tend in the long run to create more crime, but do some good.

An experimental program that is going on right now ( I can't remember where - in Canada I think) allows heroin users to get clean needles, gives them a safe place to shoot up, has a nurse on hand and allows up to about 20 addicts at a time. I can't recall if they provide the heroin - I think they do. They also have a neighberhood van that looks for addicts in corners and alleyways checks them , supplies clean needles and offer minor medical aid.

The program was started by a former narcotic detective who became disenchanted with arresting the addicts and low level pushers.

The crime rate in the area has crashed to almost zero.

I'll see if I can find a link - he was interviewed on Fresh Air on NPR quite some time ago.

@cindysnoopy - I'm a pharmacist. Just in case anyone misunderstands.

 

The thing is, are those people who you would want to see in a position of power?

Behind the wheel of a car?

Watching children in daycare?

Fixing food in a restaurant?

IMO, the only thing that is doing is allowing the government to HELP people kill themselves and ruin their lives. Just my opinion of course.

You know as well as I do that having people who use mind altering substances are not enhancing society, but helping lower the quality considerably.

 

I agree totally. And those that lean HEAVILY on drugs manage to find success mainly in music and art, if at all. Fields that require a clear head shun them automatically.

BUT. The drug laws, like prohibition before it, is an attempt to legislate a facet of human nature that we find abhorent. And it can't be done. Borderline people that tend to remain law-abiding CAN be influenced by legal restrictions, but those that are seriously self-destructive and self-indulgent will not be detered by laws. They WILL find some way to screw up their lives despite our best efforts and good intentions.

Drug abuse is a moral problem, not a legal problem, and should be treated with education. Unfortunately, "moral" has pretty much been removed from our teaching systems, and just teaching laws doesn't raise and build people with solid moral foundations with the self-discipline to lead sane and rational lives. For both drug and alcohol abuse, treatment programs built around God and religious training have far higher success rates than any other kinds of programs, but God has been so removed from our public society that we can't use them broadly. And even with those, the final decision always resides with the individual. Individuals that are determined to wreck their lives and party 'til they puke will manage to do so, whatever laws we pass and whatever chemicals we criminalize. But education is more effective than prohibition, if you include strong moral training in the education.

 

Morality and religion go hand in hand. That's what it's there for.

 

I remember reading, and have heard it said, that if caffeine were discovered today (eg if coffee wasn't so ingrained into the western and wider world as it has been for ages and someone happened upon it) then it would be made illegal because of the effects it has on people.
It's just completely socially acceptable to drink it.
And Mr Starbucks has also made a pretty penny out of it...

 

Absolutely not -but these are not people who hold jobs, they are street people who steal or prostitute for drugs. Drug testing should be mandatory for all jobs, IMO. I am tested weekly and randomly, up to 60 + times a year, and I have no objection. Right now, the people watching your kids, driving your bus, fixing your food, etc are not drug tested, or only tested as a pre-employment screen. They can go home at night and use anything they want and not worry about being held accountable until a tragedy occurs, and sometimes not even then. I was barred from working after a positive test because I took 2 vicodin after a root canal, until I could prove it had been prescribed and taken over 12 hours previously. (The actual effects that impair mental performance usually last only about 4 - 6 hours, although reflexes can be slowed longer)

 

I think that is questionable - alcohol, if discovered today, would fit all the defintions of a schedule II narcotic - addictive, damaging, limited medical use ( it is used to treat wood alcohol poisoning - prevents the toxicity of wood alcohol)

Caffeine is along the lines of Sudafed in potency - although it is addictive.

 

I'm in the aviation industry, and we're all subject to random drug testing. Nobody that touches an airplane is exempt from drug testing except for private pilots of small airplanes. And they can lose their pilot's license from a drunk driving conviction, much less a drug offense.

And that is proper. Where a level head is critical, drug testing is just fine. People can choose to play with drugs or be serious successful people. Still their choice.

 

I too, agree

morality is brought to us by those around us, mainly the parents.
Thats where the whole "God" also stands. . .
to people believe on God because they chose to on theire own, or because mommy said so? The same with anything. . . . . .IMO

well, legally, you can sit in front of the police station with a giant purple bong
smok'n tobacco all night long(execpt for the loitering[sp])
and as long as there is no "leftovers" from anything illigal in the pipe, its just a water pipe
you can have a crack pipe, if its new and clean you just might use it illigally,
if there is reisidue in it from crack, weed, whatever you will get charged with posession of paraphenalia
but on the same hand if it is filled with tobacco( that comes with it when you but it at the store) its just a pipe

 

Perforation of the liver was up though, with the holes mainly being 0.45 inch or 0.38 inch wide.

 

Rofl!!!!

 

Definitely, which I alluded to in the following paragraph. Biggest difference between the Mafia in the 20s and the drug gangs today is that the Mafia were generally better shots. The druggies hit far more innocent civilians.

 

As long as a program like this is paid for privately, I have no problem with it. But if we are cutting down on welfare programs, we sure better not be spending money on giving users an easy ride. And of course the crime rate went down. The whole point of crime is something-for-nothing, with very little work involved. Looks like they got what they wanted.

It is a moral issue, and no government can legislate moral behavior. People ease their pain in all sorts of ways, from over-working, to over-eating, to pornographic addiction, to alcohol, to drugs. The only reason drugs are outlawed is because the consequences of use are much higher, both for the individual, and society. But if over-eating caused someone to commit a crime, such as, say, burglary of a grocery store, you can bet that they may get some court ordered attendance of Overeaters Anonymous.

Yeeesss, a phaaarrmacist, of course that's what you are, we believe you!

 

I pretty much agree.

There are a ton of people at my school who smoke marijuana; it's no big deal when you find out someone does. These kids don't give a crap if it's against the law - the thing they care about is getting caught by either the police or their parents. I do not do drugs; its appeal is lost on me.

Do prohibition laws work?
Well, in some ways I suppose. But overall, not really. People will do it regardless of that fact that it's illegal - not only with drugs though - speeding, stealing, etc. People will do it if they can get away with it.

 

imo i think pot should be legalized, it's supposed to have 3 or 4 times the cancer causing particles in it but people who smoke cigs prolly smoke a lot more cigs then they would if they were smoking pot, so they are probably about on the same plain as far as effects on the body go, i dont think there have been any documented cases where the cause of death was a marijuana o.d. them being high might have caused their death, but the actual pot did not i think i read that somewhere. i think that in something like 11 states i dont know ne any particular states but in those states it isnt illegal to possess a half of ounce or less of pot. im sorry if i repeated anything i jumped in late and didnt read all of the previous posts

 

Ya but weed is more intoxicating than tobacco, you would have to put restrictions on where you can smoke it, i.e. not when operating machinary, etc.

 

Ok I don't normally offer this information to just anyone, but here goes anyway............hate me if you must.

I started doing drugs when I was 9 years old & spent the better part of the next 20 years doing just that. I have tried most everything there was without a thought of what it was doing to me. With that being said............

In 1990 I was arrested, for what I thought was a bunk charge, & recieved a 20 year sentence in prison for selling a quarter gram of Crystal Meth. There were some extenuating circumstances that I won't go into. Now....am I proud of this fact? NO, but I am greatful for the experience. I feel the the Arkansas Department of Corrections saved my life.

I seen first hand that the current Drug Laws in fact do not work. I mean why was it that I got a 20 year sentence & some guy that walked up to another guys house, knocked on the door & stabbed him 18 times in the chest only gets a 10 year sentence. Yea something about that just ain't right. Am I complaining? NO, if I had not been out there doing the crap I was, then I would never have been put into that situation. It's just that so many people are being locked up for a drug addiction & the ones that are supplying that person with said addiction, are getting away with it.

Again I sat around thinking that I wasn't like any of those people in there, but I soon realized that I was just as bad if not worse than most of them.

With the laws as they are today it seems that it's worse to do drugs than to **** someones little girl. I seen so many folks there for 2-3 years for ****, but then others were there for 10-20 years on a drug charge. Now in my mind something about that is extremely wrong.

Maybe I'm a bit biased on this subject having been one to have an intimate experience with it all. I'm not blaming anyone but myself, though I do believe the laws need to be changed.

Like I said think less of me if you must, but that would just reinforce my opinion on the way drug laws are handled.

 

Why think less of you? you are what you are now because of whay you where, right?
I,myself, do not judge a person by their actions(people mess up). What you do is not who you are, it's why you do what you do. Some of the people I know may be the mosed screwed up people in the world, but have the bigggest hearts I have ever seen. They just can't handle life, to emotional or something.others O know just do things to be a complete waste of space. but that is who they are. . . .

 

Well you know so many people think, once a criminal always a criminal. I get that all the time. My record has since been expundged & I've managed to stay out of trouble thus far. Getting threw 7 years of parole was a bit annoying at times, but then again, if I had not been out runnin' amuck, I would not have been locked up right?

Back to the drug laws.........I don't think that the law enforcement community has a clue about what really goes on & this is why they go after the easy ones & not those that are supplying.

 

i just watched a really good special on MTV about where the presidential canidates stand on drug issues, and i also learned just how bad our drug laws are, there are more people in prison for drugs then like r***, murder, and assault combined. I also learned about the manditory minimum law which takes any judgement away from the judge and based on the weight and the drug, a person is sentenced to a minimum prison term, and they are really harsh terms.

 

Suesman, I don't think less of you, I think more of you. Not only is it difficult to turn your life around, and it sounds like you have, it takes guts to share that with a bunch of mostly strangers.

Cheers.

 

this too happened to me, but i got out of it with a good lawyer and 10,000$

the difference was it was in 1995 christmas
it was the end of a 4 year .25 gram a day binge ( i sometime think about all the money i spent on that sh@# .25 for anywhere between 30 and 60 dollars a day)

.

jail is no fun 28 days i spent waiting to get out of a 10 year charge.